Why Should Backpacks be Public? - Response By a Trader

"It absolutely should be a rule, and fortunately, it is.

One of the ways we track scammer alts is through BP history, if 90% of someone's BP comes from a scammer, odds are it's an alt. If the person's BP is private we have no way of doing this, putting the community at higher risk.

If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide. If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't need a private BP "

SOURCE
- https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/groups/tf2outpost/discussions/0/864969481838740541/

Sorry, but that doesn't make the ban any less retarded for two reasons:
1. There was no warning. I am a premium member of outpost, have two years of trades so I could at least expect a warning telling me to change my profile to public. It's not like it was urgent, since I dont even have any unusuals.
2. A quick cross-check would have shown anyone checking that I'm not the alt of a scammer. Again, two years of outpost, backpack history accesible on bp.tf from a couple of hours ago and a shit ton of low value trades. Does that sound like an alt of a scammer?

I dont want to be insulting here - and I can totally understand why- but the outpost staff seems to be a bit lazy here. Yes it is in the rules, but not the ones I read back in the days. Even after getting unbanned the first time (back then I asked the staff to ban me so I could concentrate on more important things) all that was required was a quick change of my profile to public so the guy could check my inventory. No words about keeping it public.

And now I have to wait like 5 days to get unbanned?

Why you didnt read the rules 2 years ago?

Because back then this rule didnt exist as far as I know. Also read again, I got unbanned a couple of months ago by making my profile public for a couple of minutes, no indication that I would have to keep it that way.

1. Failing to read the rules does not exempt you from them.
2. Adding each user, warning them, checking their history is a waste of time. Time which could be used dealing with more important issues.

Also here's the rules page from 2 years ago:
https://web.archive.org/web/20120906022632/http://www.tf2outpost.com/rules

1. Never said it did. I just said that this rule didnt seem to be exerted the way it is now. Even admins didnt seem to care.
2. In the end you are going to have to unban most of these people, which costs time as well. Not much for than copying someones steam profile link into bp.tf or going back to his first trade.
Instead of doing this whole instant ban on private profile thing you could instead look a bit more at reports in this regard. Tf2 has a community of trades that despise scammers etc, so use their input instead of banning randomly (something that doesnt gurantee success). Just saying.

Hold long will it last now until I get unbanned?

All that is required from you is to keep a public profile/inventory for reasons explained in the first post. When it comes to trading private profiles are frowned upon, some people will instantly ignore any friend request coming from someone with a private profile. It isn't beneficial to anyone and more importantly it helps scammers get away unnoticed.

"If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide. If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't need a private BP"

so far i had no problems at all with my private profile. im not dealing with unusuals or cash, and my outpost history should be proof enough that im not a scammer. i also have to disagree in regards to private profiles being benefical to no one and this argument you posted. isnt that pretty much exactly the same one people use to defend their government spying on them? just because i have nothing to hide doesnt mean i want the world to see everything. there are certainly easier, faster and better ways to deal with scammers.

Originally posted by swag:

so far i had no problems at all with my private profile. im not dealing with unusuals or cash, and my outpost history should be proof enough that im not a scammer. i also have to disagree in regards to private profiles being benefical to no one and this argument you posted. isnt that pretty much exactly the same one people use to defend their government spying on them? just because i have nothing to hide doesnt mean i want the world to see everything. there are certainly easier, faster and better ways to deal with scammers.

1) A crucial ingredient in the success of a system such as TF2 Outpost is Consistency. It is very tough to be credible if Outpost decides to only ban / suspend users who have private backpacks and trade unusuals / are scammers - that is discrimination. A blanket policy of no private backpacks is the safest course of action.

2) Outpost mods (in the majority of cases) do not decide to go on "witch hunts" and don't randomly ban / suspend traders. Outpost has a confidential report function - that allows any trader to report a user that they believe has done an act that is against the site's rules. There is a pretty high probability that you were reported by a fellow trader, and the respective moderator had to make a decision based on the site's rules. The over whelming majority of bans are due to user generated feedback, either through SteamRep, Outpost reports, or other third party sites

3) Every community has it's own rules and regulations. This is not a new rule, it has been in effect for a while. We want a site without rules and regulations. We also want a site without scammers, sharking, high ballers, low ballets, etc. There is no perfect system - however, Outpost does give us a lot of freedom, and manages to maintain discipline and enforce rules effectively.

Nobody is accusing you of being a scammer, I think you're missing the whole point. If you're gonna use TF2Outpost for trading you're expected to abide by the rules. One of the rules says that you're not allowed to have a private profile. Want to have a private profile? That's no problem, you just can't have that and also use TF2Outpost at the same time.

Originally posted by Terminus:

Originally posted by swag:

so far i had no problems at all with my private profile. im not dealing with unusuals or cash, and my outpost history should be proof enough that im not a scammer. i also have to disagree in regards to private profiles being benefical to no one and this argument you posted. isnt that pretty much exactly the same one people use to defend their government spying on them? just because i have nothing to hide doesnt mean i want the world to see everything. there are certainly easier, faster and better ways to deal with scammers.

1) A crucial ingredient in the success of a system such as TF2 Outpost is Consistency. It is very tough to be credible Outpost decides to only ban / suspend users who have private backpacks and trade unusuals / are scammers - that is discrimination.

2) Outpost mods (in the majority of cases) do not decide to go on "witch hunts" and don't randomly ban / suspend traders. Outpost has a confidential report function - that allows any trader to report a user that they believe has done an act that is against the site's rules. There is a pretty high probability that you were reported by a fellow trader, and the respective moderator had to make a decision based on the site's rules.

1. and banning all the people with private profiles because they might be scammers isnt discrimination?

2. i never claimed they did, but theres still a shit ton of people with private profiles out there.

Originally posted by norby89:

Nobody is accusing you of being a scammer, I think you're missing the whole point. If you're gonna use TF2Outpost for trading you're expected to abide by the rules. One of the rules says that you're not allowed to have a private profile. Want to have a private profile? That's no problem, you just can't have that and also use TF2Outpost at the same time.

and you arent getting my point. banning someone who was reported because of a private backpack isnt faster than checking his profile for 30 seconds and then saving yourself and the guy you ban the time by polietly asking him to make his profile public. it is also very user-unfriendly. i get it i broke the rules but introducing a warning feature for this kind of stuff would help and save time for everyone.

Originally posted by swag:

and you arent getting my point. banning someone who was reported because of a private backpack isnt faster than checking his profile for 30 seconds and then saving yourself and the guy you ban the time by polietly asking him to make his profile public. it is also very user-unfriendly.

Originally posted by swag:

2. i never claimed they did, but theres still a shit ton of people with private profiles out there.

A 30 second task (which btw is an under exaggeration) might not seem much for a single user however you yourself said that there is a large amount of users with private profiles. The staff simply does not have the time and energy to check on every single user and see if they're involved in some kind of shady business. This is something that can be easily avoided if people actually read the rules.

Originally posted by swag:

i get it i broke the rules but introducing a warning feature for this kind of stuff would help and save time for everyone.

That belongs in the suggestions forum.

has anyone any experience with how long it takes to get unbanned? it appears some people are waiting months...

Maybe
I think so

We have new staff members on board so things should be a little faster. You just need to have a bit of patience.