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His Wardship 24 Nov, 2012 @ 3:52am
Should quicksell trades be an offense?
First off the bat, I'd like to say that I'm not suggesting that it becomes against the rules for anyone to ask for anything other than the Backpack.tf price, or any other guides price. But practically every trade I see looking for Unusuals says something like "I won't consider your trade unless you remove 70% or more from the market value". As an avid trader, I understand the principles behind this, but this, this is just ridiculous.

To put it in perspective, do people refuse to buy keys for anything more than 8 scrap? Or do people adamantly state that it is possible to buy buds for 9 keys? Sound ridiculous? All I was doing was taking 70% off the market value. But the point is, is that these people do not understand the principle of "quicksales", buying a hat for 70% of it's value isn't so called "quickbuying" it's blatant sharking.

One of my first Unusual hats, I think it was a Steaming Private Eye, I was having trouble selling, I decided I wanted to get back in the market, so I adjusted by B/O to be slightly more rational, and knocked 15% off it Not 50%, not 70% or any other ridiculous figure, and guess what? Within 4 hours, sold.

I'm all for freedom of trading, but seriously, what are the odds of a person selling you their 10 bud hat for 3 buds? If that isn't sharking, I don't know what is. If I saw a 10 bud hat on sale for 8 buds, (which is only 20% off), you can guarantee pretty much every person who saw it and could afford it would take it.

My final point is whenever I see one of these so called "quicksell" trades, there are hundreds of perfectly rational rejected responses, all because the person trading wanted to make at least 200% profit off every hat he sold. Of course, he's turned down 100s of possible trades.

I haven't put this in suggestions because I feel this is more of a discussion about quicksells than a suggestion, and I don't feel it would be right for me to suggest changes to the base rules of this site.


Tl;dr: Trades asking for 10-20% off hat, fine. Trades asking you to underprice your hat by stupid amounts (>50%) should be bannable offenses, it's obvious sharking, cheating a person out of the value of their hat.

Last edited by His Wardship; 24 Nov, 2012 @ 3:53am
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Showing 1-15 of 19 comments
Juan Nip 24 Nov, 2012 @ 3:59am 
Well if you need quick keys to get a nice offer i can see why they're quite helpful, but yea, +25% should be banable in my opinion.
Last edited by Juan Nip; 24 Nov, 2012 @ 3:59am
#1
Phoenixf 24 Nov, 2012 @ 5:05am 
Then there should be a suggested price on the site. What about newbies who don't realise what their gear is worth?? They will get banned :V
#2
His Wardship 24 Nov, 2012 @ 5:23am 
Originally posted by (GPi-SA) Phoenixf129:
Then there should be a suggested price on the site. What about newbies who don't realise what their gear is worth?? They will get banned :V

People can sell what they own for whatever price they want. They wouldn't get banned at all...
#3
NaCl-y Pancake 24 Nov, 2012 @ 8:54am 
Originally posted by (GPi-SA) Phoenixf129:
Then there should be a suggested price on the site. What about newbies who don't realise what their gear is worth?? They will get banned :V

No, this would be protecting the newbies who don't know what their gear is worth. It would be the assholes making the trades trying to buy a burning TC for 5 buds that would get banned.

Of course this cannot happen since half the mods on this site make quickbuy trades so they would never implement a regulation like this. I suggest taking a look a bazaar.tf, they do not allow quickbuy trades over there.
#4
His Wardship 24 Nov, 2012 @ 10:06am 
Originally posted by samhudson333:
No. This is a free market, people are free in whether or not they choose to participate. If you don't like quicksell posts, ignore them and move on. There are scripts that will filter out quickbuy trades, I used to use one.

So it's reasonable to buy an item for 25% of it's real value? Even if the person selling doesn't know what it's worth? I ignore quicksell trades, just skim right over them, but what about, as Future pointed out above, the people who don't know the value of their items? I'm fine with quicksells to a certain degree. You can sell a hat practically instantaneously by knocking off 30% of the value, why do people demand that you sell for 20 or 30% of your hats true value?

I don't think this would impeach the fact that OP is a free market. But if I was to post a trade offering to buy any thing other than unusuals for 70% off, it would be shot down instantly. Ever seen someone try to buy a gen el jefe for 4 keys? I believe that these trades accomplish nothing except for cheating new users, and they degrade the appearance of TF2OP.

Still, your opinion, like all others, is valid.
Last edited by His Wardship; 24 Nov, 2012 @ 10:06am
#5
Kitty Powa 24 Nov, 2012 @ 10:09am 
I´m ok if its like 25% off, more then that sounds a bit fishy, like trades with strange scattergun for strange huntsman and etc, its kinda sharking imo.
#6
His Wardship 24 Nov, 2012 @ 10:11am 
Originally posted by kitten powa:
I´m ok if its like 25% off, more then that sounds a bit fishy, like trades with strange scattergun for strange huntsman and etc, its kinda sharking imo.

I agree, anything like asking for 30% off is fine, that's just called making a profit. But when you want someone to give you a 4 bud hat for 1 bud, that's when I think somethings up.
#7
NaCl-y Pancake 24 Nov, 2012 @ 6:22pm 
Originally posted by DieHard2Live:
I sold my S. Minigun for 2 refined. Yes, it's a stupid quicksell trade but it's wearing out and it's over a year old, and I'm desperately looking for someone to take it off my hands as I have the botkiller version of it.

However, thanks for reminding me how important it is to price your items according to it's standard market price. I'll be sure to check the prices of the item I wanna give away for my future trades to avoid any accidental quick-trades.

Quicksells are not really the problem, you can sell your item for whatever you want. The problem is all the "quickbuy" trades that people make that take advantage of people who don't really understand what the value of their unusuals are. A lot of people get mixed up between these two terms, but if you want to sell your item for cheap that is your prerogative, some people though will try to buy a hat worth 10 buds for 3 buds and the person who unboxed it might not understand how much their hat is actually worth and since all they see are these quickbuy trades they end up selling it for far woth than it is worth.
#8
look at the shoes 24 Nov, 2012 @ 9:37pm 
Are you people seriously trying to enforce what people pay? If this is how the tf2 economy should run then we should all buy and sell to tf2wh. If that's what you want, that's where you should go. You should not BAN people for trying to get a good deal off of them. And I have never seen someone refuse an offer for quicksale more than 50% off, It has never even happened, qucksell is 20-30%, 70% is stealing. Also there is a reason for such discounts, Supply and demand. Nobody wants or sub-30 key cancer unusual, so of course you are going to get low offers. Selling to a quickbuyer is almost a service, It takes weeks to get a good deal on a cancer hat, and selling it for 30% off is actually a good thing. Now asking for quicksells on 5 bud hats, that's kind of stupid.

TL;DR
Banning is stupid, as bad as tf2op is with lowballers, it's still free market
#9
His Wardship 25 Nov, 2012 @ 1:59am 
Originally posted by BenKz:
Are you people seriously trying to enforce what people pay? If this is how the tf2 economy should run then we should all buy and sell to tf2wh. If that's what you want, that's where you should go. You should not BAN people for trying to get a good deal off of them. And I have never seen someone refuse an offer for quicksale more than 50% off, It has never even happened, qucksell is 20-30%, 70% is stealing. Also there is a reason for such discounts, Supply and demand. Nobody wants or sub-30 key cancer unusual, so of course you are going to get low offers. Selling to a quickbuyer is almost a service, It takes weeks to get a good deal on a cancer hat, and selling it for 30% off is actually a good thing. Now asking for quicksells on 5 bud hats, that's kind of stupid.

TL;DR
Banning is stupid, as bad as tf2op is with lowballers, it's still free market

Buying a 10 bud hat for 8-9 buds is called getting a good deal. If you read the OP, you'd know I'm fine with that. As for that comment about 70% off, I've seen countless trades looking for anything above that.
In reference to you saying that selling a low tier hat for 30% off is a good thing, guess what? I agree with you, again I stated that in the OP. It's when people try to get you to take stupid amounts off the value of your hat, again >50%.

As for the tl;dr part, if this was implemented, it wouldn't be a straight up ban fest, most quickbuy trades would still exist, but it would stop people being cheated out of their hats by giving away a flames jefe for 8 buds.
#10
NaCl-y Pancake 25 Nov, 2012 @ 8:31am 
Originally posted by Champelliot:
Originally posted by BenKz:
Are you people seriously trying to enforce what people pay? If this is how the tf2 economy should run then we should all buy and sell to tf2wh. If that's what you want, that's where you should go. You should not BAN people for trying to get a good deal off of them. And I have never seen someone refuse an offer for quicksale more than 50% off, It has never even happened, qucksell is 20-30%, 70% is stealing. Also there is a reason for such discounts, Supply and demand. Nobody wants or sub-30 key cancer unusual, so of course you are going to get low offers. Selling to a quickbuyer is almost a service, It takes weeks to get a good deal on a cancer hat, and selling it for 30% off is actually a good thing. Now asking for quicksells on 5 bud hats, that's kind of stupid.

TL;DR
Banning is stupid, as bad as tf2op is with lowballers, it's still free market

Buying a 10 bud hat for 8-9 buds is called getting a good deal. If you read the OP, you'd know I'm fine with that. As for that comment about 70% off, I've seen countless trades looking for anything above that.
In reference to you saying that selling a low tier hat for 30% off is a good thing, guess what? I agree with you, again I stated that in the OP. It's when people try to get you to take stupid amounts off the value of your hat, again >50%.

As for the tl;dr part, if this was implemented, it wouldn't be a straight up ban fest, most quickbuy trades would still exist, but it would stop people being cheated out of their hats by giving away a flames jefe for 8 buds.

This guy knows what he is talking about. Other people need to learn how to actually read peoples posts and understand them.
#11
GoldenPhoenix 12 Dec, 2012 @ 11:03am 
i think that it's reasonable to sell things at serious discounts, but only at your discretion. For example, i am a rather new player and I saw that someone had a strange that they didn't seem to be using that i wanted. I didn't have any stranges at the time so i asked him about it and he was willing to give it to me for a couple extra weapons in addition to our original trade. Most people would say that I scammed him, but he sold it at a price he agreed to. I'm not saying we should all quick sell our items at such a low cost as that, but if we really don't want it we should decide on a price and say that's what it costs at minimum. this is all the experience of a new trader, however i've seen that as long as you know what you're selling it for the people who actually want it will buy it, and those who just want it for part of the hoard will clear off
#12
The Gunner 17 Dec, 2012 @ 6:28am 
I dont even have unusuals and i never traded for them,but yeah i must agree with this,from what i have seen on tf2 outpost at least.I understand that people want profit,but these that want ultra cheap unusuals are really annoying.
#13
lazyboyking 18 Dec, 2012 @ 9:50pm 
Originally posted by Champelliot:
First off the bat, I'd like to say that I'm not suggesting that it becomes against the rules for anyone to ask for anything other than the Backpack.tf price, or any other guides price. But practically every trade I see looking for Unusuals says something like "I won't consider your trade unless you remove 70% or more from the market value". As an avid trader, I understand the principles behind this, but this, this is just ridiculous.

To put it in perspective, do people refuse to buy keys for anything more than 8 scrap? Or do people adamantly state that it is possible to buy buds for 9 keys? Sound ridiculous? All I was doing was taking 70% off the market value. But the point is, is that these people do not understand the principle of "quicksales", buying a hat for 70% of it's value isn't so called "quickbuying" it's blatant sharking.

One of my first Unusual hats, I think it was a Steaming Private Eye, I was having trouble selling, I decided I wanted to get back in the market, so I adjusted by B/O to be slightly more rational, and knocked 15% off it Not 50%, not 70% or any other ridiculous figure, and guess what? Within 4 hours, sold.

I'm all for freedom of trading, but seriously, what are the odds of a person selling you their 10 bud hat for 3 buds? If that isn't sharking, I don't know what is. If I saw a 10 bud hat on sale for 8 buds, (which is only 20% off), you can guarantee pretty much every person who saw it and could afford it would take it.

My final point is whenever I see one of these so called "quicksell" trades, there are hundreds of perfectly rational rejected responses, all because the person trading wanted to make at least 200% profit off every hat he sold. Of course, he's turned down 100s of possible trades.

I haven't put this in suggestions because I feel this is more of a discussion about quicksells than a suggestion, and I don't feel it would be right for me to suggest changes to the base rules of this site.


Tl;dr: Trades asking for 10-20% off hat, fine. Trades asking you to underprice your hat by stupid amounts (>50%) should be bannable offenses, it's obvious sharking, cheating a person out of the value of their hat.
#14
Ziri 18 Dec, 2012 @ 10:47pm 
Should they be an offense?
Probably. But where do you draw the line? It's like sharking, really. It's hard to prosecute anyone for it because there's too much of a gray area. Not to mention. the legality of the practices (both sharking and quickbuying) are debatable in the first place.

Will they be an offense?
A snowball's chance in hell.
Last edited by Ziri; 18 Dec, 2012 @ 10:48pm
#15
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Date Posted: 24 Nov, 2012 @ 3:52am
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