Originally posted by Nooge:

The rule is simply in place to create less hassle for users that are using the site to simply buy something quickly. We don't want users to have to click through 20 pages of essentially the same trade just with different icons, and we also want a user to quickly be able to see what hats are being sold, and how much they are being sold for, so they can find the best price.

The rule has been debated by staff and change numerous time since it was implemented. All that we're asking is that if you do have a large amount of trades, that you make it as easy as possible for someone to navigate through it, and find what you're selling, and how much for.

Thank you very much for the response.
I understand how having a simple (although extensive) price list can make it easier for users to navigate the site to sell their items, although I'm not sure that I agree that a rule is necessary for this.
Nonetheless, I understand and I appreciate the explanation.

Thanks for the reply, but your entire post is irrelevant to the point being made in this thread. Staff have already shown they are happy with quickbuying trades. I want to know how not listing prices is bad, not how creating quickbuying trades is bad.

I could try to argue against your points but it's not what I want this to be about. I want to focus on the difference between listing prices and not listing prices (of which I believe there is none in terms of violating rules).

Let me start this post off by saying that I fully understand why the relisting rule exists and I agree with it. Searching for an item and then finding 5 posts from the same person with the same purpose is frustrating and unnecessary.

The point of this thread is to explain why unusual quickbuying trades that do not specify prices do not break the relisting rule. There is no way that quickbuying trades that don't specify prices violate the rule if the other quickbuying trades don't.

I'm going to prove that prices don't make a difference in terms of relisting (or any other way that would negatively affect a user's site experience).

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The rule:

No relists. Relisting is creating multiple trades for the same purpose or listing the same item in multiple trades excessively. You cannot have multiple trades open with the same goal, and you cannot have an excessive number of trades open for the same item.

1) "creating multiple trades for the same purpose"
Having prices does not affect the purpose of the trade. The goal is still to purchase the specified unusuals, whether it's for specific prices or not. Therefore, this part of the rule does not matter in terms of listing prices.

2) "listing the same item in multiple trades excessively"
It's fairly obvious here that having prices doesn't affect which items are in the trade. If trades with prices don't violate this, then neither do trades without prices.

The rest of the rule pretty much just repeats 1) and 2) with different wording.

There is one last point to cover which isn't specifically part of the relisting rule, but applies nonetheless. It is mentioned at the bottom of the site rules list.

3) "Most rules are common sense and it would therefore be impossible to list all the things you could do to get yourself banned."
According to my common sense, not listing prices does not negatively affect users' experiences and therefore should not be a bannable offense. If anything, it IMPROVES users' experiences because (from what I can see) the point of the relisting rule is to prevent spam and by having a very extensive list of every unusual effect followed by a price, the trade becomes much more 'spammy.' It's really frustrating to scroll through a very long list compared to a nice simple trade that does not state the prices. To say that not having prices has a negative effect on the site's users would be absurd for this reason.

To conclude, it shouldn't matter whether you list prices or not in an unusual quickbuying trade. Neither violate the relisting rule or badly affect users.

A staff response would be very much appreciated because last time I made a post about a very similar topic, I didn't get one. I would like to see some counter-arguments. I'm fine with getting a debate going here.

Thanks.

For now I have decided to list the trades because as far as I can see they do follow the rules. Just to make it clear I'm going to list all the reasons behind why I feel that the trades do not violate the relisting rule.

Rule: "No relists. Relisting is creating multiple trades for the same purpose or listing the same item in multiple trades excessively. You cannot have multiple trades open with the same goal, and you cannot have an excessive number of trades open for the same item."

Here is why the trades follow the rule and are not created for the same purpose/are not for the same goal:

1) The trades are all for purchasing different specific hats, as emphasized by the notes section of each of the trades. This means the trades have different purposes/goals. None of the trades contain the same hat. The purpose/goal of each trade is to purchase the specific hats listed, thus they are different.

2) If you're going to say that they all have the same goal because they are all looking to buy quicksells, this is too general. That's like saying someone is relisting because they have multiple trades which have the goal of buying (although this example is on a slightly more extreme scale). Also, by the logic that they are breaking the rules because all of the trades are buying quicksells, that would mean the many other trades which are listing prices would be breaking the rules too. Listing the prices has no effect on the purpose/goal of the trade, so you can't close my trades on that basis without closing all the other mass-quickbuying trades that do list the prices.

If anyone has any other points that indicate that the trades are violating the relisting rule, feel free to post them and I will do my best to counter-argue.

A staff clarification would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

I see what you're saying about my trade and I can understand why you don't like it but what you're commenting on is irrelevant to the relisting rule. I want to confirm that by specifying which hats I am buying in each trade, I am emphasizing each trade's different purpose and thus not violating the rule.

Thanks for the reply though and yeah, a staff response would be cool.

...our last point because the sellers are only going to see one trade per search unless they are searching for multiple hats at once, which is the only way they could be informed that I'm buying both.

So my common sense is telling me that there is no difference between a quickbuy trade with prices and without prices in terms of spam.

sorry I accidentally hit reply lol

If that's the case how would adding the price reduce the quickbuy spam too? There's still going to be the same number of trades asking for the same thing. If anything, all it would do is make the trade a whole lot longer and a whole lot more ugly so that when they expand the trade they have to scroll 10 miles down the page. Just adds an annoyance.

And then I don't understand y

I was recently banned for relisting because I was not aware of the rule (entirely my fault, sorry). Before I start creating trades again I want to confirm that my new trades will now follow the rules.

1) Example of an old trade which got me banned: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/28230879
2) Example of what the new trades will be like: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/28253597

If I list several trades similar to trade #2 but change the list of hats in the notes and the hats in the trade, would this be violating the rules? From what I understand it should be OK because I am specifying that I am buying those specific hats instead of relisting identical trades. Just wanted to check to make sure.

Thanks!

It'd be really useful if it was possible to set an item as a basic, specialized or professional killstreak item when searching. This would make it a lot easier to find people who want to buy your killstreak item or find people selling specific killstreak items.

Currently the best way is to search for the word "professional", "specialized" or "killstreak" which does not bring up all the people selling the killstreak item you are looking for. It also includes other trades in the results that are irrelevant because the tag you searched for is referring to a different item in the trade.

Thanks.