BMOC's were artificially inflated by people making fake bids and fake sales, which was clearly deceitful and a serious form of malpractice.

What I am doing, on the other hand, with gunslingers is not deceitful. I am very straight up, and even boastful about my intentions with it. I have formed a group who I intended would sell at a higher price than the current going rate (as a bloc), in an effort to encourage others to do so and raise the price faster. So friggin what? You do not like it, tough s**t.
There is NO RULE against this anywhere in outpost, or anywhere else.
We are not making fake bids and fake sales like the BMOC folks.
We are selling as a bloc, at prices we wish to sell at.
If you are going to ban someone, it should be based on a written rule... not a personal vendetta because I hurt your feelings on the sourcerep page by laughing at your foolishness in investing in unusuals which you can only profit from by scamming some sucker who doesn't realize what trash ALL unusuals are. I notice a lot of outpost admins with trades begging to buy their garbage unusuals, and all I can say is that I am glad you are stuck with the trash.
If a rule did exist that said "You cannot make a group for the purpose of collectively hoarding, and setting prices as a bloc"... then I would have gladly given tf2 outpost the middle finger in the beginning and never bothered even signing up to it.

Add to that the admins here are dumb, and they all are contradictory. One admin claims a trade is right as rain, while the next admin will ban you for a relist. The admins don't even have a clear consensus on what is permitted and what is not; and if you dare ask them about the discrepancy between admins... they remove your post because they do not know what else to do... except to ban you for longer for daring to question the turds.

JON :D says one thing, MR. RAGAR says the opposite, while Pretendeer goes around in circles on the floor like curly from the three stooges not sure what to do because he has not been told what to think.

Source: Experience

I am out of here, have fun with your worthless unusuals boys. Maybe someday you will find a sucker willing to buy it; afterall, you were once that sucker yourself.

Originally posted by Nobel:

Well first off i would have to say that while yes, people will hold on to their items in the hope of increasing their value over time. However what I dont agree with is an organized attempt to manipulate prices. So therefore the charge of being hypocritical is not valid here. Many groups like yours have tried to manipulate the market, BOMCs as you mentioned, Gen Archamedies, etc. You cannot deny an attempt to manipulate the price of S gunslingers in an organized fashion and therefore I would have to agree with the ban as of now.

Permanent ban, for starting a group for people who wish to hold onto their strange gunslingers for a year when their price goes up.
Nowhere in the rules, on any website, does it state that this is not allowed.
You know this is unfair, and I also know that appealing your decision is pointless. You are doing this because of what I said on the steamrep forums today. I spoke back to the "wrong" person, who felt it necessary to get me back this way.
I stand by everything I said, and if this is how revenge is met upon me so be it.

We decide as a group what to set our own prices at. OUR prices for OUR items which belong to US. We have every right to set that price at whatever we want. I am the only one being banned from the group, and we both know why.
There is no fake bidding going on like with the bmoc, but ... you already know this.
This is about my response to a skial/sourcerep admin, who can dish but can't take.
A permanent ban for breaking a rule which does not exist. This is personal on your part and has nothing to do with any rule anywhere.

Any hope for being treated fairly in any appeals process is non-existent, because I have been banned for breaking a rule which does not exist anywhere.
There is no rule against starting a group whose intention is to hold onto an item as a bloc, until that item is worth a lot more.

I do not care at all if you like me, I do not want you to like me.
What I did was not bannable according to your rules.
If it is, then half of tf2 traders are guilty of the same thing.
They are likely just not as willing to call you out on your hypocracy, and pretentious entitled egos.

Originally posted by Pretendeer:

I wouldn't say so.

Thank you for your clear and quick reply. I just wanted to be sure.

Have a nice day.

I would like to know if the admins consider the following 2 trades as a relist.

In each of them I am asking for specific hats, and I never ask for the same hat twice.

I would like to hear specifically from an admin on this; because even though you have an opinion, they are the ones who will decide if someone gets banned or not.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/5348946

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/5348817

Originally posted by Watson the Crate:

Funny, again, whatr you said is not technically a relist, as you are buying items individually. The moment you consider them to be, and coinsider yourself to be buying craft hats is when it becomes an excessive relist.

John is trading his items for buds. Buds are currency.
The moment when the buds you are buying/selling STOPS being currency is when you go into specifics, like the lvls of buds.

You say that the trade I would be making is not a relist, but an admin just said it was. It defies common sense to me, but he said it is fine to sell as many hats as you want at a time... but the reverse is not true.
It appears the limit on buying different hats is 8.

At least I got 4.5 buds in 3 months, which is all in metal, keys, buds and strange gunslingers.
And I seriously was considering donating before, to up my number of trades allowed and because I was thankful to them once upon a time. And now, I am wondering if I might leave the group altogether. Why do I need more than 5 trades at a time anyways now, if I can't buy more than 8 different hats at a time. I might just go with the 5 offered to non group members.
Quite a change from one week to the next.

Bye for now, I guess.

Originally posted by ॐ Jitesh! #BORN2BHANGRA:

I can understand what you mean, but buds are currency.

Jon is a good member of TF2 Outpost, don't see anything wrong with him.

Yes, and the only thing I am offering which is the same is metal... which is currency.
I want to buy completely different hats, and never do I repeat a hat twice in any trades.
I am being told that this is not allowed for me to do.

J-O-N :D - college :/'s trades are more of a relist than mine are. And the reason i picked him, is because he is the admin who banned me for relisting; and then when I asked him this question during appeal he gave me a one liner all in caps which said "YOUR TRADES ARE THE SAME".

Now I am being told by a new admin that I cannot ask to buy more than 8 different hats, that I can only ask to sell more than 8 different hats.
So again, I bring up Jon and ask why would my trades be a relist and J-O-N :D - college :/ be ok?
Unreasonable.

If you talk about the "purpose" of my trade. My purpose is to buy a bunch of diffferent specific hats, and the only thing in common about them is they must be craftable and I offer 1.11 refined each one.

If each item is distinct, except for the metal (currency); then why is that unacceptable, but for J-O-N :D - college :/ it is acceptable for him to have buds multiple time on his wishlist?
Again, the question has two parts which go together... it is "why him, and why not me".

Yes, his wishlist buds are used as currency.
Just as yes, my metal is used as currency.
So why him, and why not me?
Different rules for different folks?

Are we really not allowed to buy more than 8 different hats at a time?

And why can J-O-N :D - college :/ ask to buy buds multiple times, even if it is for currency; but I am not allowed to buy completely different hats, if the number exceeds 8? My "purpose" is to buy those specific hats, so why J-O-N :D - college :/ and why not me?

Does the new rule apply to everyone, just non-admins, or now just me?

Originally posted by Pretendeer:

If you have many trades open with the purpose of metal for craft hats, then it's relisting. You're just putting different hats in the wishlist everytime just so you can have an excuse.

If you have loads of hats and you're selling them all in different trades, that's acceptable cause you're selling different hats, not buying any craft hat.

J-O-N :D - college :/ has multiple trades with buds on his wishlist. He is the one who banned me for relisting.
Not once on my wishlist would there be a repeating hat, nor was there ever to begin with.
I would be asking to buy completely different unique items in all 9 trades and you are saying it is not allowed. I would ask for each hat too specifically. But this is not allowed?
That you are only allowed to SELL more than 8 different hats at once, but not BUY more than 8 different hats at once?
Really?
Put it in the rules then,because they are misleading now.
If you wish to allow J-O-N :D - college :/ to set this precedant, and this is the direction you want to go.

Originally posted by samhudson333:

Report his trades for being relists, if you're sure they are. Be careful though, I was in literally the exact same situation as you before, with another mod, and reported their trades for being relists.

I was banned for "abusing the report system". I argued my way out of it, but it wasn't easy. I'd only go down that path if you're an excellent debater, and are passionate about this.

lol I admire your guts, and I considered that too... but I decided against it. It is like reporting a corrupt cop to another cop, nothing good can come out of that for you; and it will only expose you to further problems. But hey, nothing wrong with reporting the facts here in a forum.
Everyone is free to look at his trades to confirm that what I say is true.

It would be nice if he used the time it took him to write "ALL YOUR TRADES ARE THE SAME" to write what you just wrote.... because I did ask him during appeal, and that was his response, which did nothing to help clarify anything at all. it is like he didn;t want to answer, because if he did want to... he would have.
Is there an admin who can confirm what Watson says is true?
I have been burned already once, so I want to make sure this time.
I lost a lot of bookmarks who linked to my pages, and I would not want to see the same thing happen again 4 months from now.

Originally posted by Watson the Crate:

If you are accepting craft hats as currency in a trade, you are fine.

Do you have a trade where the main goal is to trade currency (keys, metal) for craft hats?

Do you have a trade where you are trading non-currency (hats, paints, ect) for currency, but also accepting craft hats?

IF yes, to both, not a relist.

I appreciate your input, but I need an admin to answer this. I do not wish to give J-O-N :D - college :/ any further excuses, But if an admin says it is ok, he really cannot do anything about it except look at his own trades where he asks for buds multiple times in multiple trades.