Originally posted by Champelliot:

Sneeza has already said these types of trades are fine within reason, imposing price limits would ruin the free economy of OP.

Has he ever considered the possibility of adding a filtering system so we can at least ignore all of the QOT's?

Originally posted by Champelliot:

We have our ways of stopping them from using another account to circumvent a ban. I believe that getting 20% off a hat is great, and is an almost guaranteed acceptance of an offer, but people who ask for 50%+ off are just plain ridiculous.

We do close abandoned trades, but we rely on users to report them. Personally I consider a trade abandoned if the user hasn't physically logged in or been active in any way for more than 2 months.

Do you have the power to change anything on the site? If not, is there somebody who does that you think you could get to see this thread?

Originally posted by The Taste of Defeat and Cookies:

Originally posted by Fuhrer Kitty™:

So this trade has attracted quite the cesspool of comments. Just to keep this thing a bit more on track the question was why these trades are allowed. It seems like we are just complaining rather than actually talking about why.

Yep. Wise thinking I believe.

Can't really move forward unless someone offers a valid reason for why these trades are allowed.

Originally posted by Not_Duck:

The thing with QOTs, is that you don't have to sell to them. There are many other people that you could sell to, who would actually enjoy the item you're trading to them instead of having it for profit.

I completely understand that, but with 19/20 trades with promos in the "have" field and unusuals in the "want" field, it's impossible to find people who aren't looking to buy quicksell unusuals.

Originally posted by boomerandzapper:

Well people do want to "quicksell"
Let's say someone saw a really good deal. He buys it then, haveing little patience, offers it to all the quicksellers. He knows that he has already made profit, and now he's just making his profit into pure, maybe to buy another really good deal.

Or: For example, I had an unusual, and I quicksold it because it was halloween. I needed keys quickly so that's what I had to do.

I wholeheartedly support traders who need to quicksell and get pure fast. I understand that, I trade a lot of unusuals myself. But not once has it entered my mind to seek out a QOT post. The main reason QOT posts are inefficient are because you're not only limiting yourself to one potential buyer, but you're also depending on them to respond on a timely fashion. It's much more efficient to make your own post stating that you're looking to quicksell your hat. More potential buyers will see your hat, and you'll likely get responses much faster. People who post QOT's simply clutter up the unusual market on outpost and make it impossible to find a serious buyer.

Originally posted by Fuhrer Kitty™:

Due to the technicality of outpost there is nothing really against quick buyers the only time when it's practically sharking is when they really are. So by all technicalities it's fine. Not all quick buyers are lazy I would think it would take a long time to find a good quick sell.

Besides if there's one good rule to follow in TF2 trading it's nerves of steel, but a heart like a marshmallow. You can sort of say I make my profit by quick sell but I don’t actually say that nor do I do ridiculous margins of profit. Besides I only trade for hats I want and hats that I know I can keep forever or one with a nice profit that the other party is willing to let go of. However in the process I bide my time hoping to either have an exact 1:1 in price or a nice bit of profit mostly 0.1 – 0.4 buds. Although one time I made 1bud profit but that was just luck. I even pointed that out to the other trader, curse good nature, and he said he was fine with that.

Hopefully the jurisdiction of outpost changes and stipulates limitations or employs cleaver means of dealing with the problem. See the only reason why every mod and admin say it's okay because by outpost rules they are. However that will change with a powerful enough uproar to cause consternation in their adamant rules and 'just following orders' though I doubt that this will happen. If it does they will put light limitations with a good enough penalty that it's just stupid and not worth the trouble

Speaking of this it seems like we get a lot of people overvaluing their hats. I get offers of 1bud hats on a hats I own that are 3-5buds (not the actual price range of a hat but the range of multiple hats).

I think you're the model of what a quickbuyer SHOULD look like. However, if you go through one page of quickbuyers on outpost, you'll be hard pressed to find anybody that thinks like you. This is the average quickseller on tf2outpost: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7687665

You'll notice they have all god tier hats in the "want" field, state they mainly want high/god tier effects, and 99% of the offers have no reply. As the owner of a few god tier hats, this is what I have to deal with every day when I click on the "matches" tab. It's frustrating and wastes time. If there were some kind of way to at least mark and filter out these QOT's, I'm sure a ton of serious unusual traders would be happy.

Originally posted by Uranium235:

As you said, if you want to find serious buyers you're better off setting up your own trade. So I see no issue here.

Because it's good practice to not passively wait for a buyer to approach you. If given the chance, I'd gladly approach a serious buyer myself. This can't be done when 90% of the trades where somebody is offering to buy an unusual turn out to be QOT's.

Originally posted by Uranium235:

As I said, it's everybody's choice. Although not advisable, even the choice to only contact one quickbuyer.

I'm a little confused. If you concede to the fact that selling to a quickbuyer is a bad idea, why is it ok for them to have hundreds of trades advertising the fact that they have pure clogging up outpost? It's a waste of real traders' time and makes it much harder to find serious buyers.

I understand that it's their choice to sell their unusual or quicksell the hat, but if they want to quicksell, they can just post their own trade. By posting your own trade, you get the benefit of more views, and you're not limited to just one potential quickbuyer.

Originally posted by Uranium235:

It works because selling an unusual for the "normal value" takes a lot of patience.
Not everybody has that patience. Unusuals tend to have a rather large price range anyway, so who's to say what the "normal price" is?

People with a lot of funds can afford to invest in items that sit in the shelf for a long time until sold. Others rather have 2 buds now than 2.5-3 later. And as such these quickbuyers have a valid, if not viable, function, similar to banks and pawn shops in the real world.
(please no discussion about that analogy, it is flawed, I know)

So unless the quickbuyer is crossing the line with his price, why should he be banned?

If you're not willing to sit on an unusual, waiting to get a fair offer, you can knock off 20-30% of the price and easily sell it off. And that's only if you're hoping to get pure. People get decent unusual offers all the time.

I know other peoples' arguments regarding why "quicksale only" trades (From here on referred to as QOT's) should be disallowed tend to revolve around how it's ridiculous and how it's close to sharking, but I have to disagree. The main reason QOT's are bad are because they are spam.

The main reasons people post QOT's are because:
a) People have unusuals, and QOT posters have pure.
b) QOT posters believe that unusual owners will reach a point of frustration with their trade where they'll finally break down and sell it for 30% or below of it's value, in hopes of getting pure or cashing out faster.
c) QOT posters are lazy and are only willing to make incredibly high amounts of profit.

But you guys know that already. However, you might be confused as to why I'm calling QOT's spam.

The vast majority of people who post QOT's will only buy unusuals that are at 50-80% cheaper than their normal value. Ask yourself this: If you had 1+ buds in pure, would you ever decline to trade those earbuds for something twice their value? Of course you wouldn't, that goes against human nature.

Posting a QOT is equivalent to saying "Yes, I have earbuds, and yes, I would like to have more earbuds." It's an obvious statement, and the worst part is, there are hundreds and hundreds of traders who will bump their QOT's. If I were to go into the "Matches" tab on my Outpost page, 90% of the trades that come up that involve my unusuals are quicksale only trades. I'm sure I'm not the only unusual trader who experiences this, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets incredibly frustrated trying to weed through hundreds of trades to find somebody who is legitimately interested in buying an unusual.

I guess the main argument against the fact that QOT's are spam are that there are traders out there who are truly desperate to get their hands on pure. This is true, but it's a very small percentage of the tf2 trader population. No trader who is determined to make more money (aka 99% of the trading community) is going to quicksell an item, that would be stupid. The only traders who will want to quicksell are the ones who are on their way out of the game. However, I can assure you, if a person who was bent on cashing out wanted to quicksell an item, they could easily post a trade saying "I want to sell my stuff for 40% off" and they'd have dozens of pure offers within an hour.

The solution? In my opinion, posting a QOT should be a bannable offense. It clogs the trade feed and is unecessary. However, I understand that this may be an extreme position. An alternate solution might be to either implement a feature that allows traders to mark their post as a QOT, and offer sellers a way to filter out those trades.

Anyways, if you made it this far, I'd like to congratulate you on being awesome. I hope to hear some of your opinions on this, and happy trading!