possible to get an update?

Awesome rework. Will have to fire up a Lizardmen campaign to give it a go. Or a Markus campaign to put it down ;-)

If you use wh_missile_block_55_inaudible for the shield it'll sound less metallic when impacted by missiles.

thanks for this! perfect for my first lizardmen campaign.

Doesn't the new Land Ship have a mechanic for crushing infantry? Might be good for this and other big SEMs. But I could be confusing it with it's general AOE attacks.

Cool, added you, my name has "red" in it

I think that would be cool, I would be happy to help. One of the biggest issues with large SEMs in my opinion is the lack of collision damage on most of them. I'm not sure if that's something that's changeable, but I always feel like these huge monsters should be trampling infantry underfoot. I think I recall SFO does something with giants where there's basically a small mortis engine effect around their feet to simulate that kind of damage.

@Narh Just noticed that is indeed how it works I will add silver shield to dread saurian

I double checked by testing with it facing forward and backwards and can confirm there's no difference.

Double checking that test with the tank made me realize the gold shield is super strong. With a gold shield (70% block), the dread saurian would be taking 77.5% reduced damage compared to vanilla against anything that shields can block while facing forward. That's still 51.25% reduction when shot from the side compared to vanilla.

Assuming you don't want to lower the missile and physical resist too much for artillery and melee reasons, the silver or even bronze shield is probably better. For silver (55% block) it would be 66.25% and 45.6% compared to vanilla for front and side respectively, and for bronze (35% block) it would be 51.25% and 38%

I did some quick tests and I think the directional missile block doesn't work. I compared the damage from some ratling gun volleys from vanilla to this mod, and the difference in damage was consistent from just the missile and physical resistance.

The unit card shows the directional block trait, but it doesn't have any base shield/parry chance. You probably need to add that for the directional block to do anything.

Yeah I totally agree with what Venator and Sigmar's said on balance.

I just did a bunch of changes let me know what you think, I tested it out feels a lot more balanced.

@Venator

- I agree with the melee defense now, it does impact monster vs monster more then surrounds so i suggest the following: increasing its armor to steam tank like levels so peasants wont hurt it but armor piercing units will and resetting its melee defense

- Decreasing missile resist to 20% still a small buff but not big and adding the steam tank mechanic bc it does add counterplay like you suggest

- with the weapon strenght i felt like it wasnt actually good at killing infantry so i wanted to buff it plus increase its splash damage limit so it can hit more entities ( so focus on infantry killer) but still not decided on that, would lve your input ( more splash is more spread out damage)

Thanks again for the feedback

Glad to help! Okay so I'll just go point by point with my opinions

- melee defense on creature this big isn't really that important. It's going to take damage, that's its job along with munching infantry. A tiny bit of extra MD when surrounded isn't going to save it much damage but the MD when dueling other monsters will help it more than it probably needs.

- I'd drop it's HP back down to Vanilla and probably it's Weapon strength.

- My idea w/block chance instead of high MR is so there is counter play, if you can get your ranged units behind the monster trying to hit it's weaker spots where it can't see you, you'll do more damage - I think that can be more compelling than loads of missile resist. The flip side is while charging headlong into combat to munch on said archers you take far less damage.

Tbf I don't think my solution is perfect, I just find it rewarding when a headline unit has mechanical strengths and weaknesses that you can play around.

@Venator Hey thanks for the feedback! I agree it's main purpose is not to be a monster killer
- The reason for the melee defense upgrade is because its so big, so a lot of entities can surround it and attack it, and if an entity is attack from the side or back it loses a lot of melee defence, I think 75 or 90% when attacked from back so that was my idea there.
- upping the armor is a good idea and justified bc of its massive scales (I will nerf something else then)
- Is there a reason you would prefer the missile block over missile resistance? I thought that would be more themtic bc of its scales while missile block would indicate that is should be more missile resitant from the front, which I feel doesnt resemble the unit, I am curious to know your opinion tho!

I currently gave it 40% missile resistance so sisters of averlorn would still do 60% damage

Seeing as CA had no idea they needed to balance the Thunderbarge I'd say you shouldn't sweat it too much.

Dread Saurians gets dusted by peasant bowmen.

I think most of your buffs are justified here. (I can't believe it doesn't have Wallbreaker in vanilla)
My main concern is that it probably shouldn't be able to fight Skarbrand 1v1. DS is more of an army killer.

Suggestions

- Leave most of it's stats at vanilla and only focus on what makes it perform poorly.
- A crazy armor value might help, ensures that AP units are the threat, not peasants.
- Frenzy is great, I would balance that by keeping it's leadership at vanilla values.
- Doubling mass feels right, it should be near impossible to pin it down
- I'd probably not put melee defense higher than 30-35. It's a big target.
- This might be tough, but some form of the Steam Tank's new missile block could be very cool.
If not a flat 30% missile resist and a bronze or silver shield should help it out paired with more armor.

So these were my testing results as well

lvl6 skarbrand can almost kill it

just 1 unit of chosen of tzeentch can get it to under half hp.

I based the stats on this

@sigmars_disciple Hey no worries I appreciate all feedback! This is my first public mod for warhammer 3 so feedback is very much appreciated. I might have overtuned it but it felt pretty good to me when I tested in custom battles.

If you have time to test it out please do and let me know.

I try to keep it balanced but keep in mind this is the only unit that has caps really so it should feel strong and currently the thunderbarge is way stronger then it and has no caps at all.

My vision for it would be to be a very exclusive but strong and expensive unit.

Let me know your thoughts tho!

Without having tried this and without having any stocks in how good or under/overperforming a Dread Saurian should be in the game:

I still want to calmly remark that it sounds like a cheat mod now - which is kinda what you wanted. You were mad at how bad itr was so you made this -- totally cool.

But balancing doesn't work at all like that, obviously. And you can't complain about the balance not being right (by a bit) and then proceed tto do a more extreme imbalance, maybe even to recompensate for all the "pain you endured".... I'm exaggerating but I hope you get my point. ;)

I wshed sometimes that more mods were made with a bit more subtle approach, not "I want this to be the strongest single-entity..." - and really, I swear: no offense or anything intended

But how amating would Trajann's "Khorne Compilation" to use in campaigns,also for AI, with better balancing? Try it out yourself <3