I haven't seen anything like that here, but I will keep a closer eye on it. I also don't see how that would even be possible (I am playing a different faction and Albion is fine). Strange.

Sounds like it could be a mod conflict, but then I don't really know what the other mod specifically alters, so that might not be true.

seems to be a problem with rebellions triggering on albion while playing belakor. rebellions still occur in other territories. am using landmark mods but those should be only things affecting albion

No problem, I should've told you sooner, so I'm glad it's all good with you. Keep up the good work!

Thanks for telling me and for the credit. In my view, the more mods the better.

Hey Volcano, I've created a Control mod that drew inspiration from yours a while back, and I've only just released it, so I gave you a shoutout and linked to your mod in the description. I've built my own effect_bundles_to_effects_junctions_tables table from scratch, and the mod isn't as extensive as yours, so I hope the credits will be fine!

Here's the link to the mod if you'd like to check it out:
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3455888536

Let me know if you see any problem with this, cheers!

@thefightintitan
I just checked, and actually - Kislev factions are totally disconnected from the standard Control mechanics now. This means that this mod will not affect them at all, which I think is good, because they are now using a totally different method for public order (and this makes them unique).

That said, after playing with them more we may find that Devotion might need some small adjustments to make it more challenging, in which case I will integrate it into this mod (because it deals with a different type of, what is essentially, Control). But let's see how it plays for a while first. Who knows, it might be perfect.

Hmm, don't know, haven't tried it yet. I will keep an eye on it. But then, since this mod deals with the base level of Control effects, I suspect it *should* (in theory) be OK, and any changes made with Kislev (or any other faction) would just be layered on top.

@Volcano, any thoughts how this will interact with the new Kislev devotion/control currency mechanic?

I updated it, no more capital letters in the tables. It was tedious, and CA says they will fix it, but I don't quite trust that a future update will not break it again so the change/fix here doesn't hurt.

well, it would work, it would just be that the 4th tier wouldn't have any effects -- but that would probably be a bad thing, yeah.

You could of course edit your own version of the mod to add in tier4 minor settlement effects, then load that version instead.

Will this mod work with Tier 4 minor settlements? Glancing at it in RPFM, it looks like some effects are tied to settlement level in the building_effects_junction table, but there is no tier 4 minor in vanilla.

OK, first of all, good catch, thanks for bringing this up.
I investigated the problem and fixed it just now in a mod update. The problem was, the high elf factions (HEF as they are called in the database) were using Warhammer 2 effect bundles ("wh2" in the database) and they went under the radar when I converted them. Since I made the mod, I haven't yet went back and played any HEFs again, and so I never noticed the issue.

As a side note, yes, all the HEF still have their special unique Control benefits after this change (like higher GDP income for highest Control level), as do the other factions. This mod does not alter any special Control effects, only adds to them.

Thanks again, and have fun.

I will also point out that all High Elves have their own version of control effects (more/less income from buildings) and their economy is heavily boosted by high control (various buildings have additional effects for >75 control).

OK thanks, I will look into that faction and see what is going on. There might be some special Control type it is using that I left out by accident, and I would have to add that into this mod too, let's see.

Yes, that's the one.

Is that Knights of Caledor faction? (the faction name is what matters) -- I will look into it, but as far as I know, they shouldn't be any different from the other factions, but I will investigate.

I started campaign as Imrik and he seems to have more Vanilla-ish control effects (HE have unique ones). Intended? Oversight? Mod conflict?

cool, thanks for responding. I will try this out.

There might be some rebellions, but from what I have seen (just finished a campaign), the AI doesn't have trouble dealing with Control and they won't be having rebellions all the time. It is however possible now to use Hero abilities and raiding stance to cause rebellions though, rather than it having no effect before. Certainly the game is tougher for the player, but in a good way IMO.

Ok good. Will it make the game harder for the ai? I plan on using this with ur less ai cheating mod. I dont want the ai to have to deal with a ton of rebellions.

Yes, it affects the AI also, but of course the AI has its bonuses, of course.

does this affect the AI as well?

thank you for this fast fix! :)I

Mod updated just now with that change, and the change notes probably explain it in more detail.
You are welcome, have fun all.

thank you

...

Most factions have more than this provided by the same buildings, so adding a small bonus amount there will probably help them out enough, without upsetting the faction balance.

Also, in the spirit of Yin/Yang, they provide can provide negative Control when those buildings are damaged or ruined (unlike other factions), which keeps a nice balance there I think (they can have the Control buff as long as the buildings aren't damaged - so damaged provinces can potentially experience a rapid loss of Control). I think that is a cool compromise.

@Tombet
OK, I just checked Cathay, they do have that Wu Xing Compass "Celestial Lake" that grants them more Control (as you probably know), that I imagine is useless in the standard game, and each Astromancer Hero has a Control skill; sometimes you have to put multiple Heroes in a province to buff Control, instead of putting armies everywhere.

But I did look at Cathay's Control buildings and they do seem pretty weak there -- I have to be careful, but this seems to be by design. However, their weak Control is made for a weak WH3 Control mechanism, not for this stronger one, so I will update the mod shortly to add a small bonus to Control for their Main_2,3,4,5 settlements.

(continued...)

...still, I will play Cathay a bit more and see if some unique changes for them might be needed. But then another thing has to be remembered, that some factions are good at exerting Control, and that is more or less their main advantage over others (like Cathay) that have different advantages (like Caravans, etc). So, its a tricky balance.

@Tombet
I haven't played Cathay that much (I have a little). Some factions are better at Control that others (buildings wise), but every faction has the means to exerting control with Heroes (agents). The idea is that you shouldn't be under threat of revolt, normally, unless enemy armies are raiding, or due to corruption, and so on. The bonuses provided for good Control in this mod are intended to be just that: bonuses, that you obtain if you can manage to maintain high levels of Control.

However, yes, achieving maximum Control is difficult and will require effort, usually Heroes in the province exerting passive control (along with some Ancillaries), technology effects, and definitely Control buildings. Occasionally you might need an policing army to move around and exert Control in vital areas, but you shouldn't need an army everywhere to keep from rioting. There are methods of gaining addition Control all over the place and sometimes you have to get creative.

@GoldenHammer
It might be SFO compatible, unless they too adjust Control there. Best thing to do is try it and see.

sure many ways to increase control. But you cant hold always armys and agends back in the citys for the PO

It's a must-have in all my campaigns. I think that the balance is fine ATM. You will struggle to keep good PO if you try to take too much territory and don't have the means to keep the peace in all this land, which is exactly what should be happening. There are many ways to increase PO in-game, so it's fine.

the idee of this mod is really fantastic. but i think its a little too overtune on vh and legendary. I played as Cathay and i cant keep the PO good.

SFO COMPATIBLE??

Hmm, that's odd, one of the most painful factions I have been fighting against is a green skin fact faction. Kislev also has taken over all of their realms, and also took out the Norscan factions north of them in a long war. No one faction seems to be hurt by any of it (I am playing on Legendary too).

As for the AI control levels, no, that is correct. What I have done here is the AI doesn't work completely in reverse, they suffer the same penalties but they suffer between 50-75% of what the player does, depending on the difficulty level (so, rather than them getting benefits, they just suffer less).

Pretty happy with how it is working, but I wonder if there is something inthe Old World Mod that isn't playing well together. I suppose you could put this mod at the top of the loading order and see if that makes any difference. Also, do you have any other mods installed?

One other note, mousing over the AI's control levels, I can see that the difficulty level penalty is applying to them (I'm playing on hard), so they're all experiencing a -4 to control across the board. Shouldn't that be the other way around for the AI?

Hmm, I'm only on turn 25 so perhaps it's a case of them stabilising over time, but at the moment it's every Kislev and Greenskin faction around me (I'm playing with The Old World mod). Only faction which doesn't seem to be having issues is the nearby dwarf settlement.

I've got line of sight on kostaltyn and his capital is at -99, about to deal with a rebellion.

I'll keep an eye on it, but the strange thing is that I am 150 turns into my campaign that I started with this turned on, and I don't see the AI suffering that much to it -it has built suppression buildings to control it. Is it a certain faction in particular that is doing it?

I loved the idea of this mod and was having a wonderful actually having to work to balance my control for once, however I've realised that the AI is so atrocious at managing its control that the hety debuffs applied are actually having the opposite effect of making the game easier. I don't suppose there's a way to make it so that the growth and economy debuffs don't apply to the AI? I'm playing a Kislev campaign at the moment and literally every settlement I have line of sight on is dealing with -80 control or worse.

Ah, OK, try putting this mod at the top of the order and that might address it.

i run few balancing mods like nerfageddon, and tabletop caps maybe some of it overwrites, but why only imrik dunno, strange. Thanks for the response i love this mod

Hmm, I don't see how that is possible, no, but I will look into it. It is a global change, so it should affect all factions unless they don't actually use Control mechanic at all (horde factions, for example).

Interestingly enough i just double checked and it seems to me that imrik doesnt get the debuffs from your mod (meaning higher contruction cost etc.), while most of the factions i checked do get these penalties, is it even possible?

Ok that sounds great! Thanks for making this mod!

Yes and no - the AI is affected by the same effects, but the AI does get a boost in their Control numbers (which is not anything new).
Still, it is actually possible to cause revolts in AI territory now, which isn't really possible before, but the AI needs that boost in Control because of course - it is the AI since it doesn't make the smartest decisions.

Hi does this mod affect the AI?

I am seeing them attack on my end. What they tend to do is try to wait several turns until they consider themselves strong enough to attack (they gain units each turn). Then if they are full strength and still don't consider themselves strong enough to attack, then they usually raid the area.

So, if you aren't seeing rebel armies attack, then it is probably because they are gathering strength. I don't think anything in this mod would affect them in any way (all Control does in that regard is determine when the rebels will... well, rebel).

well, thats unfortunate, i'll have to look through my mods carefully.

The problem in my game I see at the moment is that full rebel armies in enemy regions simply stand around for turns and do nothing instead of attacking the settlement. What can that be?

Hmm, I looked - no not from this mod, this mod would add things like:
"Level of Control" and "Difficulty Level" negatives, the former can also become a positive. But of course both effects are in the base game too, this mod just adds more or uses it differently.
Sounds like it might be coming from another mod?