Ok then. That makes sense. I just didn't understand what you meant by "or worse". This is still really cool. I think you should give them a little bit more, like cities can't reach level 5 intrigue, or there are buildings that decrease intrigue, or even some sort of spy satellite. I just feel that after the first 50 - 75 turns, the only thing left they have going for them is not having their operatives killed. I can see a lot of possible expansions for this mod without making it too op. Sadly, I don't know the XML language and I don't have time to learn it. Does it use a similar dev kit to Civ5?

Prestige and rank in their society is determined who can complete the boldest and most difficult operations. Detection simply means being aware an operation even took place, it doesn't mandate that it was discovered due to incompetence. People will know that they've been robbed if a master thief is confident enough to leave little, onyx figurines at the site of his heist, even if they have no idea who's done it. The Data Angels are simply narcissistic enough to act that way.

By worse, it means the Data Angels can still screw up and be Identified. The way the code works is that any case of undetection is changed to detected. Any case of killed is changed to identified.

Why are they always detected? "- Operatives are always detected or worse after an operation. "
That's just kind of stupid. Also, it says "or worse". If they can't be killed does that mean there is a higher chance of operation failure?

cool!

i often put it on enemy team with human hive.

Yes that would be doable. I would honestly redesign the trait completely to work around a similar concept tbh. At the moment, I feel the Data Angels are borderline breaking because of their free spy. Sinder's spies can't die, making high-risk operations much less risky. That being said, you can't perform high-risk operations without getting the intrigue high enough first. By starting out with a spy, you have free reign to raise intrigue up in a particular city for most of the early game. I've timed it and in play testing, I was able to get 1-2 coup attempts on Zak's capital due to the increased spy rate in his cities. It's a little bit worrisome and I've contemplated delaying the free spy to later in the game for that reason.

Proposition: There was a ketchup (catch up) mechanism in civ4 and civ5, where techs that were researched by met civs costed something like 5% less per civ that has it. I have not bothered paying attention if that mechanism exists in BE, but im guessing it does???
In either scenario, what do u think about giving Cinder some kind of reverese engeneering ability as well. Ex: reduced tech cost if tech has been researched by anyone / increased tech speed if tech has been researched by a civ u r spying on.
PS: probably gonna play Cinder in next game.
PSS: One city challenge with Aki is the most civ fun ive had in years, ty.

But this is Cinder's page so about Angels. This ability doesnt seem to do anything? 1 Spy? Havent played the race, just see it sending the spy either to Zak or me ( i guess she has a thing against russians, wonder if she would send to Vadim if he was in the game). So lets say the spy gets off 5 successful missions before anyone else gets a spy. In early game that would be at best 100 gold, 50 science, 2 techs and a Coup de Gra. Sure feels like a huge bonus at 5of5. Failing one tech steal automaticly removes CdG from the list, failing science syphon removes one tech stolen and CdG. Failing 2 events isnt worth discussing.

Hello again lillgame. This might become a long post, cuz i havent truly figured out what exactly to say. Have played quite a few games with UniProj now and Cinder and Yang are quite happily spending alot of time underachieving in 10 player games. The AI fails to coprehend Yangs racial bonus in going wide early, it seems to not dare building new cities when between -5 and +5 health even tho it wouldnt suffer all that much from it (note: on apollo it does fine)...

Cornflakes :D

Hi there dude,
First off all, congratz on your job! I'm actually exploring the mod's world to improve gameplay on CIV BE - mainly new factions, because those ingame are few and repetitive. Looking forward for more!

So in short, great for doing ops, especially the risky ones, but likely going to result in really bad diplomatic consequences. Probably a harsh penalty for those who like diplomacy, although given the way Civ seems to be, not really that bad of a drawback.

All in all, seems pretty reasonable to me.

KFC so good!

@lilgamefreek: I ment not totally garbage)) I'm trying to look at mod from a different points of view for now.

@Evgen 44N: Thanks for the feedback! I always appreciate criticism for my mod. If you were the developer, how do you see the mod possibly improving?

Garbage, or near it.

...

Errrrr..... Thanks for visiting my mod page?

This is the worst game I have ever paid for. I don't even know where to start. I spent money on this garbage and I don't think I could give this thing away. who green lit this trash?

That's called leaving a trail

Not that they can't cover their tracks... just that, like so many fictional rogues, they insist on leaving a calling card. Yesno?

@fire_inthe_heart: This is most likely caused by a mod conflict. What other mods are you currently playing with?

@Kaka-Karrot-Cake: Less a trail, more a signature. The trait was inspired by this quote:

"What's more important, the data or the jazz? Sure, sure, 'Information should be free' and all that—but anyone can set information free. The jazz is in how you do it, what you do it to, and in almost getting caught without getting caught. The data is 1's and 0's. Life is the jazz."
— Datatech Sinder Roze, "Infobop"

Forgot to mention this earlier, I have lost 3 operatives in my current game. I lost my screenshots but it around turn 150 or so.

Thank you, I loved AC and AX. Cannot wait for the others...Timeline for the drones?

So, they're adept at infiltration, but they leave a trail behind? seems like they aren't very adept at infiltration honestly

No problem.

Double negatives are tricky. Thanks for the fix!

In your description, you say they "can't help leaving their work unnoticed", which would mean that they would always keep their work hidden. I think that's the opposite of what you meant.

@Jay: I'll certainly look into it. I think they can use some adjustments to make them less powerful and it would be good to have their trait reflect their classic aversion to military someway/somehow.

@civman2.0: I don't think computing is useless for them. +3 spies is still great, especially for them, and worth pursuing alongside the other things computing unlocks (artillery and networks). I am heavily considering moving their +1 free operative too computing rather than at the start of the game. They can still get a head start without building an agency first, but it really narrows the window they have of no possible counterops.

I feel like the pros and cons are a little too simple. Should we include some effect on police/military?

@Jay: It's certainly possible, but something I found in playtesting was that buffing their success rate made things too easy for the Angels and too frustrating for other players. Starting with an operative means the Angels can do whatever they want in a city until a spy agency gets built. I found with the increased success rate, it was waaaaay to easy to coup someone's capital before they could build a spy agency to try and stop you.

@Satdanov: That certainly sounds like the Usurpers. Never like when I'm unlucky enough to spawn next to them or the cult of planet.

@fire_inthe_heart: The Cybernetic Conscience is gonna be after the Free Drones, who are next. I have some fun ideas in mind for all the SMAX factions.

Is it possible to add increased covert op success rate? To counter-balance this, increase military unit upkeep to reflect their aversion to the Power social value in SMAX.

Yeah, alright :) I'm actually playing a game of SMAX right now, but I think the Usurpers already killed Sinder.

Awesome. I always loved the SMAX characters from AC. Can't wait to see what you do with the Cybernetic Consciousness . They would likely only be able to take Supremecy as a path perhaps with a free level of Supremacy to start. Just had an idea - they could be the 'augmented' spaceship survivors from the quest in-game. Great work!!

I had a lot of fun with the flavor elements of this faction. A lot of the stuff I had to come up with myself because the SMAX factions are a bit more threadbare than the SMAC factions. I really just tried to pretend I was a try-hard hacker thrown into the position of leading a splinter group of people.

"Leave us to follow our own path, or we shall bring your empire to its knees from within." Surprisingly one of the most intimidating things I've ever heard. Where'd you get it from?