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Cpt.Haxray 30 Jul, 2016 @ 11:27am
Lazy, spammable skins pushing back good skins to latter pages.
A continuation of the 'workshop hall of infamy', of sorts, but since that wasn't constructive enough, let me go ahead, explain why I made it, and give a few specific examples as to why SOMETHING needs to be done about this.

I made it because 90% of those skins were being made in 2-3 seconds, were clearly just rushed, cheap attempts to get it onto the workshop, and the creator never improved between mutiple skin uploads, either being the same texturing the gun all 1 color, or random spotces of paint being passed off as a pattern. I got nothing against someone being bad at making skins. I got something against people not even trying.

And why is this a problem? easy. it pushes back skins who creators put a lot of effort into, potentially onto the second or third page. Very easy for an absoletely amazing skin to get missed simply due to being pushed to the second or third page by lazy, tossed together skins.

Ill give examples, undeniable examples, that this is taking place. First off, these 2 'skins'.

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=725720527
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=724882781

See anything special about them? Thats right. These 2 creators literally clicked 'create a skin', then uploaded the blank template to the workshop. This is something that DEF should not be allowed. 'NOT MASTER GUNSMITHER' or not, this is just wasting space and pushing back good skins.(These two are old by now though.)

Now, another person here has uploaded a skin that is literally the vanilla gun, and claiming he made changes to it, when not a single person i know who seen it can spot the difference.

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=725678536

And then there is guns literally taking a base material from the game, and passing it off as a 'brand new skin'.
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=727524011

Only showing the worst example here. There is many more.

I won't even get started on skins that are just 1 color, as those could be 'passed off' as 'not being a master gunsmith or skin creator'.

Seriously though, theres a large amount of skins like these, and all they do is serve to push good skins to the latter pages of the workshop, where they don't get viewed as much by peoplel, meaning less chance of their effort being noticed or rewarded.

Don't worry, if this gets locked again, ill stop trying.
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Showing 1-11 of 11 comments
AJValentine 1 30 Jul, 2016 @ 11:40am 
Must admit, i'd prefer to see less "shun the bad" and more "praise the good". Can we get threads showing off all the best skins instead?
#1
Cpt.Haxray 30 Jul, 2016 @ 11:43am 
Originally posted by AJValentine:
Must admit, i'd prefer to see less "shun the bad" and more "praise the good". Can we get threads showing off all the best skins instead?

Because what is good depends on opinions. What im showing off here, is a genuine problem. Maybe the nebula one is pushing it, but the other 3 are def examples of what needs to be dealt with on the workshop.

I guess I 'COULD' praise the good, or at least skins with effort that aren't getting much attention, but i doubt it would help much. People look more at threads talking about 'troublesome bad skins' than 'skins that could use some more attention'.
#2
AJValentine 1 30 Jul, 2016 @ 11:49am 
Originally posted by Cpt.Haxray:
Originally posted by AJValentine:
Must admit, i'd prefer to see less "shun the bad" and more "praise the good". Can we get threads showing off all the best skins instead?

Because what is good depends on opinions. What im showing off here, is a genuine problem. Maybe the nebula one is pushing it, but the other 3 are def examples of what needs to be dealt with on the workshop.

I guess I 'COULD' praise the good, or at least skins with effort that aren't getting much attention, but i doubt it would help much. People look more at threads talking about 'troublesome bad skins' than 'skins that could use some more attention'.
I suppose you are right in those regards, but at what point does someone in a position of power, begin to determine what should and should not be acceptable on the workshop. A workshop in which the sole use of which is to let users vote on the good and bad.

I personally would prefer to see good skins upvoted and bad skins downvoted, leaving it to Valve to highlight the best of the best.

At any rate, if you feel you have a better solution to moderation of the curation service, please do let me know, anything we can do to improve the service provided is a good thing.

Thanks
#3
Cpt.Haxray 30 Jul, 2016 @ 11:54am 
Originally posted by AJValentine:
Originally posted by Cpt.Haxray:

Because what is good depends on opinions. What im showing off here, is a genuine problem. Maybe the nebula one is pushing it, but the other 3 are def examples of what needs to be dealt with on the workshop.

I guess I 'COULD' praise the good, or at least skins with effort that aren't getting much attention, but i doubt it would help much. People look more at threads talking about 'troublesome bad skins' than 'skins that could use some more attention'.
I suppose you are right in those regards, but at what point does someone in a position of power, begin to determine what should and should not be acceptable on the workshop. A workshop in which the sole use of which is to let users vote on the good and bad.

I personally would prefer to see good skins upvoted and bad skins downvoted, leaving it to Valve to highlight the best of the best.

At any rate, if you feel you have a better solution to moderation of the curation service, please do let me know, anything we can do to improve the service provided is a good thing.

Thanks

At the very least, the 2 'light' skins that are just the base template skin you get when you click 'create a skin' on the ingame menu deserve to be deleted.

As for everything else... if someone is clearly spamming a bunch of 'lazy' made skins on the workshop all at once, those skins deserve to be deleted. In the few cases it has happened the creator ended up removing a bunch of them after being called out about it on my safehouse thread that got locked(Which was part of the intention of the thread), but not every creator is going to be as willing, even more so with that thread locked.

Upvoting/downvoting is what i would prefer, but it gets to the point where there needs to be more action taken if a good skin is being criminally ignored because a bunch of people decided to publish their 'MY FIRST SKIN' all at the same time as him, and push it back to the second page. Said skins being nothing more than a base game texture being used.

Maybe give a timer delay on skins appearing on the workshop, so less chance of such a thing happening? I would say 'just delete the ones with no effort put into them and clearly just put on to troll people', but that would lead to, as you said, claims of corruption.
#4
Athener 24 30 Jul, 2016 @ 12:54pm 
Originally posted by AJValentine:
I suppose you are right in those regards, but at what point does someone in a position of power, begin to determine what should and should not be acceptable on the workshop.

Well, I'll share my opinion based on my "experience" in CS GO Workshop, so this may be not 100% correct, but I hope you take that into account. As bad as your skin look, actually IT IS acceptable and have rights to be voted, the offender of workshop skins is where the skin maker use assets from copyrighted material.

Regarding accepted into the game, CS GO take much more consideration than votes, I don't know the extra factor, but it counts. Also Joakim also says votes isn't everything.

Originally posted by AJValentine:
I personally would prefer to see good skins upvoted and bad skins downvoted, leaving it to Valve to highlight the best of the best.
I thought it's Overkill on our worksho =/ ?
#5
Mr. Wolf 30 Jul, 2016 @ 2:40pm 
Originally posted by Athener:
As bad as your skin look, actually IT IS acceptable and have rights to be voted, the offender of workshop skins is where the skin maker use assets from copyrighted material.

^ As Athener said.

Dear Haxray, all due respect, what you are proposing is in direct opposition to the spirit of Steam Workshops. You seem to have completely misunderstood what "community" means. And despite the fact that elitist / toxic behavior is common in many otherwise great games, this is still a public and open community.

Everyone has a right to publish whatever they want, as long as it does not violate the guidelines (set only to prevent copyright or decency abuses). You manifest your opinion regarding the quality of said work through your vote, not a Delete button. What you don't like, you simply ignore, or criticize constructively in the comments. Moderators are in place to prevent abuse, not to arbitrarily delete the efforts of players and creators (no matter how amateurish those efforts may be).

Anything other than that would endanger the standing of the game itself on Steam, by going against meta-guidelines. Community is what keeps a game alive.

EDIT: For example, your other thread / collection of under-appreciated skins is a good example of how that which you perceive as quality content should be promoted. It is constructive and promotes community interaction, as opposed to being simply destructive. The present thread, where you link works + creators with intent of "name & shame", is not.
Last edited by Mr. Wolf; 30 Jul, 2016 @ 3:16pm
#6
Cpt.Haxray 30 Jul, 2016 @ 3:24pm 
Originally posted by The Wolf:
Originally posted by Athener:
As bad as your skin look, actually IT IS acceptable and have rights to be voted, the offender of workshop skins is where the skin maker use assets from copyrighted material.

^ As Athener said.

Dear Haxray, all due respect, what you are proposing is in direct opposition to the spirit of Steam Workshops. You seem to have completely misunderstood what "community" means. And despite the fact that elitist / toxic behavior is common in many otherwise great games, this is still a public and open community.

Everyone has a right to publish whatever they want, as long as it does not violate the guidelines (set only to prevent copyright or decency abuses). You manifest your opinion regarding the quality of said work through your vote, not a Delete button. What you don't like, you simply ignore, or criticize constructively in the comments. Moderators are in place to prevent abuse, not to arbitrarily delete the efforts of players and creators (no matter how amateurish those efforts may be).

Anything other than that would endanger the standing of the game itself on Steam, by going against meta-guidelines. Community is what keeps a game alive.

EDIT: For example, your other thread / collection of under-appreciated skins is a good example of how that which you perceive as quality content should be promoted. It is constructive and promotes community interaction, as opposed to being simply destructive. The present thread, where you link works + creators with intent of "name & shame", is not.

I still stand by this thread. At the bare minium, the 2 'blank template' skins deserve to be removed.
#7
Cpt.Haxray 30 Jul, 2016 @ 3:36pm 
Go ahead, Lock this thread. Guess my 'POSTITIVE' thread will 'DO MORE'.
#8
Red 1 30 Jul, 2016 @ 4:12pm 
A person uploaded almost TWENTY FIVE skins in a single day a couple of days ago. He practically took the entire first page of the workshop.

They were all awful 5 minute rush jobs. There wasn't a single one that could've been salvaged and they were most likely using stock art to boot (And you can't report that because you don't have a way to prove it, even though it's obvious when people use stock art).

Once his 30th skin was out I went to the comment section and told him to stop spamming the workshop with his skins because he was pushing other peoples' work (That actually took some effort) to the second page. The person luckily understood what I meant and deleted 90% of his skins a few minutes later.

Now, if it wasn't because of my intervention back then you would still have tons and tons of his skins taking the first, second and third page today (Because he was most likely going to keep making them).

We clearly NEED some extra guidelines. What stops anyone from uploading 25 skins a day every single day, pushing everyone else out of view? I could literally spam the workshop right now by using my platinum skins' files on other guns, effectively making 20 skins in less than an hour. Then on the next day I can spam the workshop again by using my camo weapon files to make another 20 guns, and the list goes on.

At least limit the number of skins a person can upload per day. No one who actually puts some effort behind his skins will be able to make 20 super good ones in a single day so no idea why we can even upload that many skins. A minimum amount of screenshots for a skin is also a good filter, if at least to give people the incentive to post more angles and mods because no one is going to convince me that his skin is good with just a single picture.

And yeah, the default texture guns should GTFO.
#9
Mr. Wolf 31 Jul, 2016 @ 4:15am 
Originally posted by Rednavi:
A person uploaded almost TWENTY FIVE skins in a single day a couple of days ago. He practically took the entire first page of the workshop. (...) At least limit the number of skins a person can upload per day.

A daily submission limit would indeed make sense.

It would be a good measure to at least curb the perceived problem, potentially improving both the moderation effort and community voting process.
#10
AJValentine 1 31 Jul, 2016 @ 6:54am 
Originally posted by The Wolf:
Originally posted by Rednavi:
A person uploaded almost TWENTY FIVE skins in a single day a couple of days ago. He practically took the entire first page of the workshop. (...) At least limit the number of skins a person can upload per day.

A daily submission limit would indeed make sense.

It would be a good measure to at least curb the perceived problem, potentially improving both the moderation effort and community voting process.
I can suggest a daily limit to the developers, however i believe this would need to be implamented on Valve's side.

At any rate, i have written it down, and it will be addressed when the devs return from vacation
#11
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Date Posted: 30 Jul, 2016 @ 11:27am
Posts: 11
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