All i can think of is car crusher. But im pretty sure thats under 3 minutes with skips.

However, i DO like the idea of creating a level with these parameters in mind :P

Originally posted by Sgt_Snowcone:

It must be extremely challenging, but not over the top (as in no walls of buzzsaws that are impossible to get through)
It must continuously flow from each obstacle to the next (essentially fuse all the obstacles together in a string)

IMO, having a lot of obstacles doesn't make a map difficult. That's just adding artificial difficulty in place of an actually easy map. The map itself should be difficult, even void of obstacles... don't forget all the fine air-control and platforming/parkour you are able to do.

Originally posted by Sgt_Snowcone:

It can have track shortcuts, but it CANNOT have skips

Good luck with that. Every map on the workshop so far has at least one "unintended" skip, unless the author learned about it and then either put up invisible walls (cop-out imo), or decorated the skip route to make it an intended shortcut. The issue you're going to have here is that you as the author aren't going to be able to see every possible route a player might potentially take, so you're always going to have at least one unintended route slip through.

Originally posted by Sgt_Snowcone:

HINT: If you can complete the course on your first try with no crashes, it's too easy

Again IMO, but I believe the author themselves should be able to full-boost deathless their own map. Also "first try" doesn't exist when you're mapmaking - you do many, many test runs of individual sections to tweak them accordingly, so by the time you've finished the map, you've already practiced all your sections enough to be able to (hopefully) full-boost deathless it.

Originally posted by Sgt_Snowcone:

Here is where us hardcore track racers can show off our platforming jumps and tricks!

Sounds like fun, I'll probably try this out at some point. Not gonna go over 3 mins though, it's hard enough making enough content for a 1-2 min track with my limited time. The hardest tracks are usually short and based around a particularily difficult obstacle anyway. (Not that they flow well)

One track that comes to mind is Terminal Grid, although that track was riddles with skips and shortcuts, and a lot fo the difficulty was in the no-checkpoints version.

Originally posted by Californ1a:

Every map on the workshop so far has at least one "unintended" skip...

Desaturation Day - A remake of the NR challenge, it's a bit hard to have skip on a stright track. Flying over the shards is intended.
Firey Flow - Again, a bit hard to have a skip on a straight track.
Propulsion Laboratory - I'm pretty sure I sealed off all shorter paths when making this track, no-one's pointed any out at least.

Admittedly, every single other track I've made has the potential for at least some unsealed shoter path, but not all of them :P

Originally posted by Californ1a:

Originally posted by Sgt_Snowcone:

HINT: If you can complete the course on your first try with no crashes, it's too easy

Again IMO, but I believe the author themselves should be able to full-boost deathless their own map.

How are you supposed to create medal times without a deathless run? I know some people don't even bother with those, but I always base my diamond medal time on my best deathless run (minus a couple secs, if I think I could improve), and add a bit more time for the other medals.

Originally posted by Platoonsgt1:

One track that comes to mind is Terminal Grid, although that track was riddles with skips and shortcuts, and a lot fo the difficulty was in the no-checkpoints version.

See I just don't think that's "difficult" - it's more arbitrary because of the lack of checkpoints and overuse of obstacles, but the map itself isn't really difficult.

Originally posted by Platoonsgt1:

Originally posted by Californ1a:

Every map on the workshop so far has at least one "unintended" skip...

Desaturation Day - A remake of the NR challenge, it's a bit hard to have skip on a stright track. Flying over the shards is intended.
Firey Flow - Again, a bit hard to have a skip on a straight track.
Propulsion Laboratory - I'm pretty sure I sealed off all shorter paths when making this track, no-one's pointed any out at least.

Admittedly, every single other track I've made has the potential for at least some unsealed shoter path, but not all of them :P

This is also a straight map, as is this. Being straight doesn't exclude it from having unintended strats/routes. And as I said, putting up invis walls to block stuff is imo a cop-out - there's plenty of ways to design a map where you don't need invis walls. If you're going to put up walls, at least tie it into the decor, don't make them invisible, make them like glass panes or something.

Gezellig. The correct answer is Gezellig.

Originally posted by Californ1a:

IMO, having a lot of obstacles doesn't make a map difficult. That's just adding artificial difficulty in place of an actually easy map. The map itself should be difficult, even void of obstacles... don't forget all the fine air-control and platforming/parkour you are able to do.

Good luck with that. Every map on the workshop so far has at least one "unintended" skip, unless the author learned about it and then either put up invisible walls (cop-out imo), or decorated the skip route to make it an intended shortcut. The issue you're going to have here is that you as the author aren't going to be able to see every possible route a player might potentially take, so you're always going to have at least one unintended route slip through.

Again IMO, but I believe the author themselves should be able to full-boost deathless their own map. Also "first try" doesn't exist when you're mapmaking - you do many, many test runs of individual sections to tweak them accordingly, so by the time you've finished the map, you've already practiced all your sections enough to be able to (hopefully) full-boost deathless it.

Regarding the first paragraph you responded with, yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Platforming is what I would like to see a lot more of on the workshop. Too many times have I played through Departure just to wallride and parkour like a boss down that long flight corridor.

About the second paragraph, yes I don't expect for the map to be completely devoid of skips, but I definitely don't want there to be intentional skips. And I also agree that the undisguised laser grid is a cop-out for everything except falling below the track.

And for the third paragraph, yes I completely understand. (I meant to add that it's a tip for players who casually post on the workshop simpler levels like California Cruise or WipeOut 2048 Empire Climb. Lemme add that right now.)

Originally posted by Platoonsgt1:

How are you supposed to create medal times without a deathless run? I know some people don't even bother with those, but I always base my diamond medal time on my best deathless run (minus a couple secs, if I think I could improve), and add a bit more time for the other medals.

I meant on the very very VERY first time you test out the completed track. Also I meant the hint ot be for the casual workshopper. (btw, luuuuv what you have been doing with your tracks!)

Originally posted by Sgt_Snowcone:

About the second paragraph, yes I don't expect for the map to be completely devoid of skips, but I definitely don't want there to be intentional skips.

"Intentional skip"=shortcut, no? You say in the OP that it can have shortcuts, and all shortcuts are are intentional faster routes... decorated/intentional skips.

Typically the word "shortcut" is used to denote an intended (known to the author) faster route, and "skip" is an unintended (unknown to the author) faster route. You can have skips that are slower than shortcuts, and you can have shortcuts that are slower than skips. The only difference between the two being whether the author knew about that specific route when they published the map. So as soon as you, as the author, learn about that route, it becomes a shortcut you intentionally left in the map until you go back to decorate that route, or block things off with buildings, or whatever else, but if you knowingly just leave it without decorating it or blocking it in some way, then it's still a shortcut simply because you as the author now know about that route.

You should be a little clearer with that you're trying to describe with regard to shortcuts and skips, because you could have a completely undecorated shortcut, or you could have an area that is decorated, but also contains an unintentional faster route ("skip").

Originally posted by Sgt_Snowcone:

I meant to add that it's a tip for players who casually post on the workshop simpler levels like California Cruise...

Lol that's actually a dev-made map xD

@Californ1a
Sorry 'bout my lack of clarification. I'l get on it right away.... Anyway, do you have any ideas or suggestions for the map qualifications?

And here I was expecting a list of the hardest levels in Distance...