Moon Moon lähetti viestin:

"A paywall is a method of restricting access to content, with a purchase or a paid subscription." - Wikipedia

"A system that prevents Internet users from accessing certain Web content without a paid subscription" - Merriam-Webster

VonMissions' Solaris restricts Medium, Heavy, and Assault Circuits "Early Access", only to Patreon Supporters, as in you gotta pay to experience a potentially buggy content.

Author keeps saying "fact", but no explanation, no discussion, just closes the comments section. So to be fair, someone explain this to me, I am really really baffled as to how it is not paywalled content.

- How is a content, that which you have to pay subscription to access, isn't paywall?
- Is it not content when not finished, despite being intended with the mod?
- Is it not paywall because paywalling only talks about news article online?
- Is it because it'll be free and accessible in the future? Then how is it not "currently" paywalled? As in still paywalled?

INB4:

I have no problem with the idea of monetization of mods, sure as hell it looks hard to do and takes a lot of work. But this mental gymnastics and disingeniousness just doesn't sit right with me.

What do you got to be afraid of if your reasoning is sound?

His mod - his rules - simple

pete lähetti viestin:

His mod - his rules - simple

You mean I can shoot and kill people, and say it's not murder, because it's my gun?

Moon Moon lähetti viestin:

pete lähetti viestin:

His mod - his rules - simple

You mean I can shoot and kill people, and say it's not murder, because it's my gun?

Don't be daft or ridiculous or obtuse. You know exactly what I mean.

Your reasoning may be sound to you but not others

I am not a lawyer - but there may be legal issues in selling a product/mod for a game that is licensed to someone else -PGI in this case - so like how many Youtubers do and offer a superscription service with benefits to people who support financially, the mod author has done the same.

I'll quote from his Nexus mods page
"Thanks to all supporters of the work to make Solaris 7 possible in Mechwarrior 5!
Clarification: vonMission's first public release coming from Early Access bringing you the Light Mech League from Solaris 7 with custom Arenas, the rest is still work in progress and at the moment only for supporters because - again - it is in progress..."

Doesn't sound like a 'paywall' to me - sounds like a work in progress.

Again its a mod - you DON'T have to use it

So His mod his rules - if you don't like it - make your own

Disclaimer - This mod does not interest me and for that reason alone - I'll not be using it. I do have his Von-Biomes mod but due to limited financial resources - I would not support him in subscription form

pete lähetti viestin:

Your reasoning may be sound to you but not others.

Goes both ways buddy. Except, you know, there's definitions to fall back to.

pete lähetti viestin:

I am not a lawyer

That there should end the discussion, but okay let's keep going.

pete lähetti viestin:

Doesn't sound like a 'paywall' to me - sounds like a work in progress.

That's great. Now let's see the definition of paywall:

"A paywall is a method of restricting access to content, with a purchase or a paid subscription." - Wikipedia

"A system that prevents Internet users from accessing certain Web content without a paid subscription" - Merriam-Webster

"Early access posts are a way to share content with your patrons before it goes live publicly on Patreon." -- Patreon

Nope, it's paywall, by virtue of content restricted behind payment. Oh wait, sorry, are you going to the "It's only for news articles"? Cause that would be funny. Please argue that.

pete lähetti viestin:

Again its a mod - you DON'T have to use it

Not really the issue.

You also don't have to pay for the news subscription, because you don't have the read the news. Doesn't mean it isn't paywall.

pete lähetti viestin:

but there may be legal issues in selling a product/mod for a game that is licensed to someone else -PGI in this case

So you mean to tell me that, he shouldn't be paywalling content in the first place? Not really my standpoint, but you do you.

Oh wait, by that, you mean, it's "not paywall *wink* *wink*"? Meaning it is really paywall, but the author would be in trouble if we admit that.

pete lähetti viestin:

So His mod his rules - if you don't like it - make your own

And again, not murder, because it's my gun. I'm merely enjoying my 2nd Amendment rights.

Great talk.

Moon Moon lähetti viestin:

pete lähetti viestin:

Your reasoning may be sound to you but not others.

Goes both ways buddy. Except, you know, there's definitions to fall back to.

pete lähetti viestin:

I am not a lawyer

That there should end the discussion, but okay let's keep going.

pete lähetti viestin:

Doesn't sound like a 'paywall' to me - sounds like a work in progress.

That's great. Now let's see the definition of paywall:

"A paywall is a method of restricting access to content, with a purchase or a paid subscription." - Wikipedia

"A system that prevents Internet users from accessing certain Web content without a paid subscription" - Merriam-Webster

"Early access posts are a way to share content with your patrons before it goes live publicly on Patreon." -- Patreon

Nope, it's paywall, by virtue of content restricted behind payment. Oh wait, sorry, are you going to the "It's only for news articles"? Cause that would be funny. Please argue that.

pete lähetti viestin:

Again its a mod - you DON'T have to use it

Not really the issue.

You also don't have to pay for the news subscription, because you don't have the read the news. Doesn't mean it isn't paywall.

pete lähetti viestin:

but there may be legal issues in selling a product/mod for a game that is licensed to someone else -PGI in this case

So you mean to tell me that, he shouldn't be paywalling content in the first place? Not really my standpoint, but you do you.

Oh wait, by that, you mean, it's "not paywall *wink* *wink*"? Meaning it is really paywall, but the author would be in trouble if we admit that.

pete lähetti viestin:

So His mod his rules - if you don't like it - make your own

And again, not murder, because it's my gun. I'm merely enjoying my 2nd Amendment rights.

Great talk.

So great to read your drivel. Just as you have a choice to be wrong and a choice to complain, he has a choice to limit access to his beta parts of his mod via Patreon support. I'm sorry that you seem to not being used to hearing 'no' or 'your wrong'.

pete lähetti viestin:

So great to read your drivel.

K

pete lähetti viestin:

Just as you have a choice to be wrong and a choice to complain, he has a choice to limit access to his beta parts of his mod via Patreon support.

Yes, and that's called Paywalling. Which I have specified that I am fine with, he just have to admit it.

pete lähetti viestin:

I'm sorry that you seem to not being used to hearing 'no' or 'your wrong'.

And I'm sorry that you seem to not be able to understand basic reason and logic. Truly a tragedy, I pity you.

#thoughtsandprayers

It is a shaky subject and one that would give you a headache wherever you approach it from though there is one point worth highlighting:

Moon Moon lähetti viestin:

I have no problem with the idea of monetization of mods, sure as hell it looks hard to do and takes a lot of work.

There's actually a lot of laws, EULAs, T&C etc that actively prohibit the monetization on modding essentially, it is that they are just not enforced. Mostly cause it is extremely difficult to enforce though if found out all hell can break loose because in reality most mods are using "borrowed" assets from other properties. Case point would be if someone made a mod where they used a single texture from another game and charged for it, doesn't matter that 99.9% of the content they made was unique and their own work, unless they worked out a royalties deal for using that asset they're essentially breaching copyright. If this is the case it is not just the mod creator but the hoster as well who is financially liable. Why the whole paid mod fiasco a while back was such a colossal ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, even bigger than people thought.

Strayed lähetti viestin:

It is a shaky subject and one that would give you a headache wherever you approach it from though there is one point worth highlighting:

There's actually a lot of laws, EULAs, T&C etc that actively prohibit the monetization on modding essentially, it is that they are just not enforced. Mostly cause it is extremely difficult to enforce though if found out all hell can break loose because in reality most mods are using "borrowed" assets from other properties. Case point would be if someone made a mod where they used a single texture from another game and charged for it, doesn't matter that 99.9% of the content they made was unique and their own work, unless they worked out a royalties deal for using that asset they're essentially breaching copyright. If this is the case it is not just the mod creator but the hoster as well who is financially liable. Why the whole paid mod fiasco a while back was such a colossal ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, even bigger than people thought.

Fair enough. But that doesn't answer my question.

How is an intended content, for an advertised as part of the mod, reserved for Patreon Supporters that require payment, not paywalled?

Basically it lays in a grey area. Technically not paywalled cause "Early Access" implying going to get publicly released but same time is requesting donations to access content.
Schrodingers Mods essentially.

Strayed lähetti viestin:

Basically it lays in a grey area. Technically not paywalled cause "Early Access" implying going to get publicly released but same time is requesting donations to access content.
Schrodingers Mods essentially.

"Technically?" -- wouldn't it be technically on the other way around, by virtue of common-sense?

So it's "Not paywalled" *wink *wink.

Okay lol.

Its this kinda stuff that makes modders ultimately quit modding. They are providing content, at no cost to you other than asking you wait till its done to be fully released, in the meantime a Preview has been provided. Bro doesn't owe you a damn thing. And yeah if he wants to have a donation system set up so he can spend more time modding and making content, and as a thank oyu for the donations he provides more in progress that have no guarantee that they will even work correctly cause they are in development so be it. Sub to his patreon if you want more, otherwise chill out and wait.

Modders don't owe you a damn thing.

Also the dev himself verified public release is limited to lights until its done, once its done it'll be released to the public so this whole discussion is moot.

Cotato lähetti viestin:

Modders don't owe you a damn thing.

I agree.

Cotato lähetti viestin:

Also the dev himself verified public release is limited to lights until its done, once its done it'll be released to the public so this whole discussion is moot.

Well, it doesn't make not paywall, because it is still conceptually content behind payment.

As I said before, I am fine with monetization. He just have to be honest about it.

Cotato lähetti viestin:

Also the dev himself verified public release is limited to lights until its done, once its done it'll be released to the public so this whole discussion is moot.

Oh no it's a paywall

pete lähetti viestin:

Moon Moon lähetti viestin:

"A paywall is a method of restricting access to content, with a purchase or a paid subscription." - Wikipedia

"A system that prevents Internet users from accessing certain Web content without a paid subscription" - Merriam-Webster

VonMissions' Solaris restricts Medium, Heavy, and Assault Circuits "Early Access", only to Patreon Supporters, as in you gotta pay to experience a potentially buggy content.

Author keeps saying "fact", but no explanation, no discussion, just closes the comments section. So to be fair, someone explain this to me, I am really really baffled as to how it is not paywalled content.

- How is a content, that which you have to pay subscription to access, isn't paywall?
- Is it not content when not finished, despite being intended with the mod?
- Is it not paywall because paywalling only talks about news article online?
- Is it because it'll be free and accessible in the future? Then how is it not "currently" paywalled? As in still paywalled?

INB4:

I have no problem with the idea of monetization of mods, sure as hell it looks hard to do and takes a lot of work. But this mental gymnastics and disingeniousness just doesn't sit right with me.

What do you got to be afraid of if your reasoning is sound?

His mod - his rules - simple

Except that there's an EULA to abide by.

It's a mod he's producing for someone else's game, and if the company forbids profiteering on their game in this manner, that's the end of it.

This has been tried with many other games, and the mod authors (with rare exceptions) have been slapped with cease and desist orders. Some companies 'do' allow this sort of thing, such as Bethesda, who even facilitate it via their in-game paid workshop.

Most companies, however, such as Paradox (an otherwise very mod friendly developer and publisher) do not allow this.

This is why so many modders rely on donations rather than paywalls - because the EULAs don't cover donations, as the donations are not 'technically' tied to the distribution of the mod.

Edit: It's also worth noting that mod authors don't actually own their mods. Developers can 'take' mods and absorb them into their games - often without even giving the mod authors credit let alone compensation. Paradox has done this on several occasions with Stellaris and 'many' occasions with Crusaders Kings. Some would argue that Fallout 4's settlement building system was them 'taking' a mod that allowed for building in Skyrim.