I think the reason why, there are many badly made chambers in workshop is because some people don't know that BEEMOD 2 or hammer exist, or probably don't know how to use them (especialy hammer).

From what I know and what expirenced, editor in game is more easy to use than hammer. In hammer you need to know how to create brushes, place textures, entites, logic, etc.

In portal 2 editor, you can just place floor button, cube dispenser, right click on the on the floor button and use option to stick the button to the exit door so the exit door can open.

BEEMOD 2 tool allows you to replace certain elements from the portal 2 editor with the elements from the tool, but from what I know, this tool is not that accessable (because you need to download it from github, and do some other instalation things).

I also think that some puzzlemakers don't know how to make a good puzzle even with the in game editor. So, basically many of the puzzles in the workshop will be easy to complete, and many people don't want to think about how to solve the puzzles. They want to do something easy, so they can turn off their brain and relax for some while.

To sum it up, I just wanted here to say why in my opinion many chambers in portal 2 workshop are easy or badly made because: Many people don't want any hard chambers, most of the puzzle creators don't know that hammer and BEEMOD 2 exist and most of the puzzle creators don't know, how to make good test chambers.

Don't get me wrong, I don't see myself as supierior to any of you (I was making chambers back in the day, that were terrible IMO), but I am somehow trying to improve on my work.

If someone who is making a bad chambers reads this, I would recomend you learing how to use hammer or BEEMOD 2 (especially BEEMOD 2, because it's more easier to use than hammer editor.). If you don't want to. You can just leave chambers that you've uploaded for yourself, because you will then get some very harsh hate, and I think you probably don't want it.

Yes to the above, as a lot of people making "maps" are just young kids and youth; therefore many don't have a lot of skill in such efforts.

Originally posted by Momonga:

I think the reason why, there are many badly made chambers in workshop is because some people don't know that BEEMOD 2 or hammer exist, or probably don't know how to use them (especialy hammer).

From what I know and what expirenced, editor in game is more easy to use than hammer. In hammer you need to know how to create brushes, place textures, entites, logic, etc.

In portal 2 editor, you can just place floor button, cube dispenser, right click on the on the floor button and use option to stick the button to the exit door so the exit door can open.

BEEMOD 2 tool allows you to replace certain elements from the portal 2 editor with the elements from the tool, but from what I know, this tool is not that accessable (because you need to download it from github, and do some other instalation things).

I also think that some puzzlemakers don't know how to make a good puzzle even with the in game editor. So, basically many of the puzzles in the workshop will be easy to complete, and many people don't want to think about how to solve the puzzles. They want to do something easy, so they can turn off their brain and relax for some while.

To sum it up, I just wanted here to say why in my opinion many chambers in portal 2 workshop are easy or badly made because: Many people don't want any hard chambers, most of the puzzle creators don't know that hammer and BEEMOD 2 exist and most of the puzzle creators don't know, how to make good test chambers.

Don't get me wrong, I don't see myself as supierior to any of you (I was making chambers back in the day, that were terrible IMO), but I am somehow trying to improve on my work.

If someone who is making a bad chambers reads this, I would recomend you learing how to use hammer or BEEMOD 2 (especially BEEMOD 2, because it's more easier to use than hammer editor.). If you don't want to. You can just leave chambers that you've uploaded for yourself, because you will then get some very harsh hate, and I think you probably don't want it.

i learned hammer in a week, it's not that hard. BEE2 makes it worse sometimes, but it's a really useful tool. There is no way in the world i can make a good puzzle so i just use hammer for decor and it has so much more freedom. If you can't make a puzzle, play workshop maps and take ideas from them, but don't take the whole puzzle

eh, just don't play recent chambers.
for some reason, this game plays only kids.

as someone who only uses puzzlemaker and i think makes some fairly clean and comprehensible maps, its literally just a revision issue. in puzzlemaker to make sure everything looks good requires time spent playtesting, revising, and fiddling with a bunch of tiny submenus. i assume most people just assume the default antline mode will be the best and never actually play their maps for legibility.

Originally posted by One for One:

as someone who only uses puzzlemaker and i think makes some fairly clean and comprehensible maps, its literally just a revision issue. in puzzlemaker to make sure everything looks good requires time spent playtesting, revising, and fiddling with a bunch of tiny submenus. i assume most people just assume the default antline mode will be the best and never actually play their maps for legibility.

d-... de-... default antline mode...? no no no no... you gave me ptsdAAAAAAA

Originally posted by KOSHAK:

Originally posted by One for One:

as someone who only uses puzzlemaker and i think makes some fairly clean and comprehensible maps, its literally just a revision issue. in puzzlemaker to make sure everything looks good requires time spent playtesting, revising, and fiddling with a bunch of tiny submenus. i assume most people just assume the default antline mode will be the best and never actually play their maps for legibility.

d-... de-... default antline mode...? no no no no... you gave me ptsdAAAAAAA

shhhh its okay youre safe now, the antlines cant hurt you anymore

And so is there an argument to put aside the 'ethos of Aperture' for anyone only making puzzles using the in-game editor? Safe to assume that anything built without unconventional means such as cube stacking or jamming platforms has probably been done before at this point. And I don't believe the answer is "bro just use beemod or hammer".

Originally posted by Mangocaine:

And so is there an argument to put aside the 'ethos of Aperture' for anyone only making puzzles using the in-game editor? Safe to assume that anything built without unconventional means such as cube stacking or jamming platforms has probably been done before at this point. And I don't believe the answer is "bro just use beemod or hammer".

im not sure what you mean by the ethos of aperture, but there is definitely still room for innovation with basic puzzlemaker. im currently working on logic gates and hidden programming stuff to try and make maps that can do more and its been fun to figure it out. just finished a momentum based puzzle that uses programming elements to hopefully make a fresh experience.

This thread is nothing more than a bias against the simple P2 puzzle maker...
Allow me to adjust your view of PeTI puzzles...
PeTI does not mean "petty"...

petty

Overview

Similar and opposite words
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Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
pet·ty
/ˈpedē/
adjective
1.
of little importance; trivial.
"both groups are known to fight over petty issues"
Similar:
trivial
trifling
minor
small
slight
unimportant
insignificant
inessential
inconsequential
inconsiderable
negligible
paltry
footling
fiddling
niggling
pettifogging
nugatory
of little account
piffling
piddling
penny-ante
twopenny-halfpenny
nickel-and-dime
picayune
View 1 vulgar slang word
Opposite:
important
serious
major
2.
of secondary or lesser importance, rank, or scale; minor.
"a petty official"

If this^ is how some of the P2 community perceives PeTI puzzles then there is a problem...

When I was younger, I uploaded some terrible maps. Most people who upload here don't care about the quality, and just want to get something on the workshop so they can get people to say "Cool map!!" meanwhile the map in question can be skipped with a simple portal bump in 20 seconds. And these maps are pushed to the front page because they are easy, in turn getting more people to play, more votes, etc. There are people out there (My favorites being Hugo B. Designer, Fumbly Bumbly, Demon arisen and more) who actually spend time conjuring up a puzzle idea, get people to playtest it, and then release a quality map on the workshop. But because those maps are harder, not as many people play it, and the only ones who care are the people who are """"Serious"""" about portal 2 puzzle solving.

though I wouldn't say that the default PETI editor is bad! it is very good at creating simple maps, it's just that people think it's bad because most maps that come out of it are bad. What do you guys think?

I believe that some players have ruled out EVER playing PeTI puzzles again...
Too bad...
I've seen some good quality from the PeTI puzzle maker...

In my opinion,
Some Hammer puzzle creators have a "stuck up" attitude when even thinking about playing a PeTI puzzle...

It's like Portal 2 has its own puzzle social structure...
Lower Class - PeTI
Middle Class - BEE MOD
Upper Class - Hammer

I continue to play PeTI puzzles :)
I have found some "gems" :)
I have also found some terrifying, challenging, "Pitfall" puzzles... D: ( Woah... @@')

Originally posted by Spaceminnow:

I believe that some players have ruled out EVER playing PeTI puzzles again...
Too bad...
I've seen some good quality from the PeTI puzzle maker...

In my opinion,
Some Hammer puzzle creators have a "stuck up" attitude when even thinking about playing a PeTI puzzle...

It's like Portal 2 has its own puzzle social structure...
Lower Class - PeTI
Middle Class - BEE MOD
Upper Class - Hammer

I continue to play PeTI puzzles :)
I have found some "gems" :)
I have also found some terrifying, challenging, "Pitfall" puzzles... D: ( Woah... @@')

okay, beemod is not middle class, it's peti but with more puzzle elements, styles, and music. that's it

Considering there appears to be three P2 puzzle makers;
Perceiving BEE MOD as Middle Class fits...

It's not how good the tools are that are being used, it's how skilled the person using those tools is.

Becoming skilled takes a lot of time and effort. That's why skills are rated: Novice, Apprentice, Adept, Expert and Master.

Anyone just starting out, is going to be a Novice, and not create anything that will rock anybodies boat. People that claim to have mastered Hammer in a couple of weeks are still Novices.

On the other hand, I've seen Master mappers create works of art with just the Vanilla Puzzle Maker.

The output will usually reflect the skill involved.