Distance

Distance

Community levels at their finest
Customize your experience by grabbing the latest community levels below, or go crazy with the built-in level editor to create/share your own levels with the world.
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Uncle Lu 17 Dec, 2014 @ 2:09am
Noticing a Trend here!
A LOT of submitted levels are resembling beyond "Monolith" level of difficulty...and a LOT of the people submitting these levels seem to have no knowledge of how to make a sprint level fast, satisfying and free flowing.

Look people I know you LOVE throwing in surface transfers, outside loops, and ridiculous ramps, but not every level needs to have EVERY single prop in place to be memorable...especially not a designated sprint level!


This is a racing game reminescent of F-Zero and while yes F-Zero had varying dimensions and angles and split second corners, that was a lap based racing game. In this game, during sprint, you go from Point A, to Point B. One shot. The designer needs to make their map with this in mind and create the track in ways that will encourage the player to get there as quick as possible, leave them guessing what's gonna happen next, but also not throw in segments that break game flow!


What follows IN MY OWN OPINION are some things that I feel should be thought about when making a level.


Outside quarter loops: Vertical to horizontal in an instant, from the outside. It leaves your car hovering in mid air like an idiot...please either stop this, or make the transfer from vertical to horizontal a LOT more gradual...give the player a bit more time to react so he doesn't fly off the track for the 5th time. This goes for road twisting and bends as well.

Surface Transfers: Fun and challenging...when given time and appropriate amounts of space to execute said transfer, making one after the other is a challenge and isn't that difficult, but making one after the other, at different angles, with very little room for error, at top speed, is a damn frustrating mess. Ease up on the surface transfers PLEASE.

Obstacles: Seriously..watch your obstacle placement. A pop-up wall appearing at the crest of a hill the player cannot possibly see over until the moment his car is fused with the wall is just bad level design.

Ramps: Again, like surface transfers, they can be fun and challenging, and even No-Fly zones can make it even more interesting. But for the love of god, don't make us accelerate, have to hit the Jump button off the ramp, to land on a pinpoint target at top speed, and don't make us jump off a ramp and expect us to land on an angled surface that's off too far in either direction.

Checkpoint Placement: I shouldn't even have to bring this up...but seriously...fix that people.



I'm submitting all of these pointers because during a sprint, a player (like myself) does not wanna have to mash the restart button over and over again because of some misplaced wall or surface transfer messing up a really great run. I keep the boost down almost all of the time to get the best time possible, my reaction time is just as quick as it was when I was 18, please don't make me feel like I'm getting older by putting in impossible things in EVERY ONE OF YOUR LEVELS.

If I was a lot of you, I'd study the way Refract made their levels, and go from there. Study the flow, the learning curve, the subtle way they teach you about the game through the car, and the track. They don't often throw in impossible obstacles or surface transfers but when they do, and you get it right on the first try, it's satisfying as hell.

TL;DR VERSION MOST IMPORTANT BIT

You're submitting your level to a public forum, you KNOW the layout by heart after spending hours designing it. The player however, does not. If you want a really satisfying level to get noticed, make it so that your million surface transfers, loops, bends, and obstacles are easily noticed and exploited by the player...use arrows, straightaways, and clear pointers to show the player that they're about to be in deep poop if they don't react. Don't expect us to be happy with you after we run into a wall that you didn't make visible until the last second.

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Showing 1-15 of 24 comments
Californ1a 20 17 Dec, 2014 @ 2:36am 
One thing you didn't mention which has to be: PLAYTEST your track. Don't submit a track you can't beat yourself (preferably while holding boost and not dying). Tracks should represent the creator's skill. If you have to make easy tracks because that's all you're able to do at full boost then so be it, but it will help you get much better at the game by attempting to make jumps you've laid out yourself for example, or trying to weave through some obstacles as another example.

Also, playtest in Sprint mode as well as in the level editor. The timing for rotating/moving objects is different in Sprint than it is in the testing mode included with the editor.

As per the checkpoints, make sure they're facing the correct direction and aren't upsidedown. There is a tools menu with plenty of one-click buttons to do things such as rotate an object exactly 180 degrees on it's local axis (or global axis).

It's also perfectly okay to submit a track with no decoration/buildings/etc. As long as it plays well, it doesn't have to look good. You can always add updates to it later. Be mindful however that the leaderboards for your tracks cannot be cleared right now, so if someone finds a skip on your track and you fix it, the only way to remove the times from the leaderboard is to take your track off the workshop and upload it as a new item.

I'd suggest if you really want to try to weed out skips, come to the Distance IRC[survivethedistance.com] and ask one of us to playtest your track before you upload it to the workshop (you can send us the .bytes file from "USER\Documents\My Games\Distance\Levels\My Levels"); we'll be glad to look over your track and give feedback before you upload it.

@Razerback I'd suggest posting this on the official forums, maybe go through it, format it some, and make sure everything reads well.
Last edited by Californ1a; 17 Dec, 2014 @ 2:40am
IImayneII 17 Dec, 2014 @ 4:36am 
I make some community content for other games and basically what you guy's are saying happens in every game with community content. There are just people who don't really know what they are doing, or just don't want to put the extra effort to make it good.

It is nice you guy's are giving tips to the newer builders so they know what to expect (I think there should defenitly be a sticky for this on the general forum, maybe with some screenshots of how not to make obstacles) but you have to understand not everybody will follow the advice, some will just not care.

My main gripes with the workshop at the moment is that people can still change tracks once they are uploaded. This just makes it easier for people to not really finish the track, upload it and just think 'i'll make changes later if needed' wich is not a good way in my opinion. Or like mentioned, exploit a glitch, fix it afterwards and mess up the leaderboards.

"Forcing" people to make sure it's a quality track from the start by stopping them from editing the track afterwards should be a thing. (I don't know if this already exist) But in turn we should be able to let people/friends test workshop tracks in progress online trough invites.

Maybe some kind of sticky where people can put their names if they want to test other people's tracks before uploading would be a good idea, because from my experience the best way to improve your building skills for a game is having feedback from people who know what they are doing.

And I think everyone will agree that quality trumps quantity.

Edit: I also feel there should be some developer pick system (ingame) or dev workshop playlist, where the devs add tracks they feel are worthy and showcase them.
Last edited by IImayneII; 17 Dec, 2014 @ 4:39am
Uncle Lu 17 Dec, 2014 @ 11:58am 
Done, I've submitted this to the forum with some edits. Let's hope for good feedback. Thank you guys for your feedback and support!
Wowie 23 Dec, 2014 @ 10:21am 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKs

+1

I like difficult. What I don't like is a random barrier that pops down from the ceiling as I jump over a hurdle - and instantly sends me to the previous checkpoint that's over 10-30 seconds back from where I was, with zero prior indication until it's already too late to avoid it. That's just trolling.

Also, please give some indicator at the start of the track as to what's enabled and disabled. I shouldn't have to do a jets/jump/wings check when I begin a track I haven't seen before.
Last edited by Wowie; 23 Dec, 2014 @ 10:27am
JTrevail 14 23 Dec, 2014 @ 11:39am 
My first track had an exploit that I wasn't aware of, and I totally agree that this ruins the leaderboards. There ought to be a way to reset the leaderboard on your own workshop map, or, preferably, to force a reset if the map is updated.
IImayneII 23 Dec, 2014 @ 12:25pm 
Originally posted by JTrevail:
My first track had an exploit that I wasn't aware of, and I totally agree that this ruins the leaderboards. There ought to be a way to reset the leaderboard on your own workshop map, or, preferably, to force a reset if the map is updated.

The ability of resetting a leaderboard would be horrific. Imagine spending an hour for a perfect run, just for the creator to reset te leaderboard the next day because #reasons. It would kill the leaderboards imo.
Californ1a 20 23 Dec, 2014 @ 3:36pm 
Originally posted by Mayne:
The ability of resetting a leaderboard would be horrific. Imagine spending an hour for a perfect run, just for the creator to reset te leaderboard the next day because #reasons. It would kill the leaderboards imo.
Well clearing them after the author fixes a skip is a definite need right now. Jordan (@torcht) just went through and removed a lot of the unbeatable times on a lot of tracks, but the devs shouldn't have to do that. They won't always know if a time was obtained using a skip or if it's an old time that used a fixed skip. The track author would know that (or at least it's more likely for the author to know than the devs)
Last edited by Californ1a; 23 Dec, 2014 @ 3:36pm
JTrevail 14 23 Dec, 2014 @ 3:44pm 
I know what you mean Mayne, but forcing a reset on update would be better than nothing. Could creators be trolls? Yes, they are just as awful as everybody else, but I don't think you'd want to play those levels anyhow.

Also, I would like to point out that when it comes to racing, the times you put in in a sprint shouldn't vary by much more than a second, so topping the leaderboards again shouldn't be difficult. And if a tenth of a second is that important, you're exactly the kind of person that the trolls are trying to upset, no?

If you have a sprint that should be about a minute and a half, and a dozen people put in a times of less than half a minute, the leaderboard needs to be reset.

Maybe what needs to happen is that times on the global leaderboard should expire after 60 days or something.
Last edited by JTrevail; 23 Dec, 2014 @ 3:46pm
Californ1a 20 23 Dec, 2014 @ 3:50pm 
Originally posted by JTrevail:
Maybe what needs to happen is that times on the global leaderboard should expire after 60 days or something.
I can't agree with that. long-standing records are what us record hunter strive for. If that kind of thing were implemented, it'd force us to keep our own leaderboards like we do for Nitronic Rush[bombch.us] although those are because the official leaderboards have hacked times and all the vehicles were put on the same leaderboard unfiltered.
IImayneII 23 Dec, 2014 @ 4:05pm 
I would go as far as saying that leaderboards are pointless now for workshop maps, since the author can change things on the track whenever he wants. I had this discussion already for another game where leaderboards too, are an important part of the game's core. People who go for top places can easily spend literally hours on a track for that .5s faster time. Sure if you have a good time you can easily get about the same, but that doesn't apply for toptimes. There it is hard to shave off that extra bit of thents of a second.

The solution: don't let people change the track once it's uploaded. This also gives that extra motivation to fully check a map for bad parts before uploading and introduces a higher standard. Now people can just throw it on the workshop while thinking they will change the bad parts later, with this system they will make sure it's a good track, or they won't and then you'll now easily who's tracks you don't have to download.
Californ1a 20 23 Dec, 2014 @ 4:13pm 
Then you have the issue of "Oh it took a screenshot when I uploaded it, completely forgot about that - let's just position camera and re-uplo... oh wait -_-"
Also "Oh I missed changing the color of one popup blocker (or etc.)"
Any decorative/color changes also couldn't be made if the author simply forgot something. Also, people couldn't upload WIP tracks, fzeroman has a lot of WIP tracks uploaded that play well already but he's working on the ascetics still.
My track would have never been uploaded if I couldn't edit it afterward, I still have a lot of decoration to add but no drive to do so atm.
JTrevail 14 23 Dec, 2014 @ 4:14pm 
Creators need to be able to moderate thier own levels. If a creator has this ability, and they aren't a troll, this should work out just fine.

The real issue is whether or not a creator will be a troll; if they are, and the level is really good, then what is stopping somebody honest from resubmitting that same level and moderating the leaderboard properly?
IImayneII 23 Dec, 2014 @ 4:19pm 
Originally posted by Californ1a:
Then you have the issue of "Oh it took a screenshot when I uploaded it, completely forgot about that - let's just position camera and re-uplo... oh wait -_-"
Also "Oh I missed changing the color of one popup blocker (or etc.)"
Any decorative/color changes also couldn't be made if the author simply forgot something. Also, people couldn't upload WIP tracks, fzeroman has a lot of WIP tracks uploaded that play well already but he's working on the ascetics still.
My track would have never been uploaded if I couldn't edit it afterward, I still have a lot of decoration to add but no drive to do so atm.

Then don't share it before it's finished. I make tracks too, for a different game, where you can't edit tracks afterwards so I have to make sure everything is good when you share it. I don't see the problem with that. Sure less quantity, but the upside is more quality. You just learn from your mistakes and move on. And yes, it can take a month or two to finish one track depending how much time you spend on it.

Don't know what you mean with WIP tracks.
IImayneII 23 Dec, 2014 @ 4:22pm 
Originally posted by JTrevail:
Creators need to be able to moderate thier own levels. If a creator has this ability, and they aren't a troll, this should work out just fine.

The real issue is whether or not a creator will be a troll; if they are, and the level is really good, then what is stopping somebody honest from resubmitting that same level and moderating the leaderboard properly?

Yes I agree, in theory it could work, but from experience I know there are alot of trolls out there. And why would you take someone else's level and share it under your name when you didn't even make it. So you are saying I can download all the good levels and just upload them under my name? Weird that's even possible without editing the file.

Still. I don't think it's a good idea for everyone to be able to just change things on their levels if you want leaderboards to be important
Last edited by IImayneII; 23 Dec, 2014 @ 4:23pm
JTrevail 14 23 Dec, 2014 @ 4:38pm 
The one problem is when there is a good level that people care about, and the creator is a troll.

What should be done about the leaderboard then?

Otherwise, it doesn't matter. Awful levels with troll creators can rot, and good levels with good creators can flourish.

If a creator is being a troll, then Refract can take away thier leaderbaord moderating privileges, moderating the moderators.
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