Great class, but i think the sound effectt for "arietta" is too loud maybe puit down a bit

Originally posted by Antonio_CALA:

Great class, but i think the sound effectt for "arietta" is too loud maybe puit down a bit

Thanks for the input! I just pushed out a small patch that lowered the volume of Arietta. Let me know if it's any better. :)

This Class is super sweet! Reminds me alot back when the Abomination was first released and was really overpowered. It might be biased of me to say that i don't think she is overpowered, i've only had one run with her and that was because i wanted to try something crazy.

I decided to go for a team that featured (in order, starting from Rank 4 to 1); Lamia, Jester, Abomination and Offering (another Class Mod) and the first thing that struck me was that the team was going to be Stressed out as balls, but the Stress Management was impressively amazing and it didn't strike me as a problem at all! It was quite a delight to see!

I'll continue to test her and see other things i might uncover with this beauty!

P.S: Did i see and talk with you on a BaerTaffy Modded Campaign Stream? Just wanting to see that you were the real deal since i talked with someone there that used your username.

Originally posted by Sifr Ivangellis:

This Class is super sweet! Reminds me alot back when the Abomination was first released and was really overpowered. It might be biased of me to say that i don't think she is overpowered, i've only had one run with her and that was because i wanted to try something crazy.

I decided to go for a team that featured (in order, starting from Rank 4 to 1); Lamia, Jester, Abomination and Offering (another Class Mod) and the first thing that struck me was that the team was going to be Stressed out as balls, but the Stress Management was impressively amazing and it didn't strike me as a problem at all! It was quite a delight to see!

I'll continue to test her and see other things i might uncover with this beauty!

P.S: Did i see and talk with you on a BaerTaffy Modded Campaign Stream? Just wanting to see that you were the real deal since i talked with someone there that used your username.

Thanks for the comment! Yes, that was me on BaerTaffy's stream :)

To give some of my thoughts having tried her out she is definitely an interesting concept. In human from she has no real offensive capabilities other then her pull which is useful. The sound effect for Arietta is a bit to loud and lingers on a bit to long. In her non-human form her stress out put can be a massive issue espically playing on the harder difficulty or with no torch almost making her not viable as an option.I can't really say for sure if her non-human form is under powered or over powered but it seems "fine" so far. Overall she is very solid for casual play but her viabilty for harder difficulties is definitely something to be looked at. I'll have a more in-depth review once I finish testing her.

Great character mod Marvin Seo, I love the art, sounds and design! I've only tried the class in a few dungeons but will continue to play around with it. I'm really liking it so far. Some initial thoughts.

• Pure support in human form and offence in beast form is awesome. A per battle limit would make transforming a serious and impactful choice particularly in long fights. I love the duality and think you could leverage it further.
  
  
• Veil Horror's stress seems a bit high. 4 rounds of 4 is twice the stress of the Abom. Because it's a dot you can technically remove it making it do less stress than the Abom's straight 8, but that would be pretty costly. 3x3, 2x5, 2x4?
  
  
• The movement of Slither, Hiss's and Gaze is little awkward.
  
  Gaze's self shuffle as a type of debuff makes sense and I think is good. It's not even always a detriment either, the shuffle could help recover from a party shuffle. Slither/Hiss If you're not at the very front Slither moves you to the very front. If you're not at the very back Hiss moves you to the very back. Slither/Hiss's move 3 is what makes things a bit weird.
  
  a) Once you use either of these move 3s you put yourself in a position where you only have 2 offensive skills to pick from. This reduces choice for the player.
  b) It also forces a sort of attack rhythm that you can't really get out of.
  c) It looks like Gaze's launch is reduced to 21 at level 5 which will make the awkwardness more noticeable.
  
  I just found that the movement, particularly the move 3s, forced your ability selection. I couldn't really use what I wanted when I wanted. idk, maybe move 1 or 2 would be better?

Keep up the good work, super mod.

Originally posted by Rumble:

Great character mod Marvin Seo, I love the art, sounds and design! I've only tried the class in a few dungeons but will continue to play around with it. I'm really liking it so far. Some initial thoughts.

• Pure support in human form and offence in beast form is awesome. A per battle limit would make transforming a serious and impactful choice particularly in long fights. I love the duality and think you could leverage it further.
  
  
• Veil Horror's stress seems a bit high. 4 rounds of 4 is twice the stress of the Abom. Because it's a dot you can technically remove it making it do less stress than the Abom's straight 8, but that would be pretty costly. 3x3, 2x5, 2x4?
  
  
• The movement of Slither, Hiss's and Gaze is little awkward.
  
  Gaze's self shuffle as a type of debuff makes sense and I think is good. It's not even always a detriment either, the shuffle could help recover from a party shuffle. Slither/Hiss If you're not at the very front Slither moves you to the very front. If you're not at the very back Hiss moves you to the very back. Slither/Hiss's move 3 is what makes things a bit weird.
  
  a) Once you use either of these move 3s you put yourself in a position where you only have 2 offensive skills to pick from. This reduces choice for the player.
  b) It also forces a sort of attack rhythm that you can't really get out of.
  c) It looks like Gaze's launch is reduced to 21 at level 5 which will make the awkwardness more noticeable.
  
  I just found that the movement, particularly the move 3s, forced your ability selection. I couldn't really use what I wanted when I wanted. idk, maybe move 1 or 2 would be better?

Keep up the good work, super mod.

Thanks for all this feedback! The usage restriction of Petrifying Gaze at Level 5 is actually an error and I just pushed out a fix for that :)

As I get more and more feedback, I'll evaluate how I want to make changes to the Lamia and your input will definitely be valuable!

For your next mod could you possibly do a gladiator like charater where being in the front row and fighting the front rank enemy is a mechanic sort of like the Battle Trance camping ability for the Hellion but last long term or has an abilty that moves him to the front and makes him only target the front rank and/or immobilzes him, just a suggestion love your class mods well done and well made.

Heya Marvin! After testing the Lamia more throughly, i've established a few things that could be adjusted perhaps. I think she is mostly balanced just right, so im only going to mention the Abilities or Traits that could need some looking.

Also, i would have reviewed her entire kit, even if particular Abilities didn't need to be changed, but i accidently reloaded the entire page as i was writing this review and lost all my text by accident, thus delaying my review, making me really angry and making this new review. Im also going to mention a few things that other people might've mentioned, but clarify exactly why i think those things don't need changes.

"The Veil" does not need it's Stress reduced, the "Arietta" move helps alleviate the Stress applied and removes the Horror applied from the Transformation itself. Horror is more managable than immediate Stress such as that the Abomination applies. Also, the Horror applied does make "Laudanum" actually worth a damn. (Since Horror effects aren't common enough.)

"Cleansing Tide" is perhaps alittle bit over the top in comparison to the Plague Doctor's "Battlefield Medicine" as it restores more Health and cures the same ailments. It does however not recover those ailments from both the target and yourself, but that is typically a quite niche scenario. I don't think the Ability is overpowered, but keep this one in mind that it could maybe use adjustments. Maybe only removing Blights instead of both Bleeds and Blights? (Matching more to the reasons why "Lamprey's Kiss" removes Blights, but not Bleeds.)

"Captivate" strikes me as her least useful Ability, but it has it's uses and it's place, but only mostly in Mark parties. It's use outside from such parties makes it harder to justify being used ever.

"Petrifying Gaze" is probably amongst the strongest Abilities in the game, double Stuns are not to be underestimated and this one does so without a drawback compared to a Hellion if you think outside from the fact that you need to use "The Veil" to have access to it. It is a fairly hard and dangerous slope to make this Ability good but also not worthless. The supposed drawback of Shuffling yourself doesn't typically strike as bad when drafted well in a party composition.

"Slither" is as like to say, the best opener besides the Petrifying Gaze, but mainly because of the massive DODGE buff it applies. Dodge Tanking is unique for this character. It might be a tad too much DODGE however, but enemies are fairly accurate so i suppose it's only fair it's really high for a squishy Hero such as the Lamia.

"Hiss" has only one gripe for me, and that it has 10% more chance to Blight than your typical percentage changes. Is there a particular reason for this? If not, then lowering it down by 10% puts it in range of standardized values. You also have the Blight Resist Reduction from the Stun as well, so i see no real need for it to be slightly above the normal percentages.

No comments about Camping Skills, i think they are all usable and well balanced!

This concludes my detailed review of the Lamia, i hope you found it both insightful and helpful in your quest for balancing this Hero. I for one will continue to utilize her kit in many of my upcoming dungeons and i'll look forward to see what else you might create beyond!

Godspeed.

Originally posted by Sifr Ivangellis:

Heya Marvin! After testing the Lamia more throughly, i've established a few things that could be adjusted perhaps. I think she is mostly balanced just right, so im only going to mention the Abilities or Traits that could need some looking.

Also, i would have reviewed her entire kit, even if particular Abilities didn't need to be changed, but i accidently reloaded the entire page as i was writing this review and lost all my text by accident, thus delaying my review, making me really angry and making this new review. Im also going to mention a few things that other people might've mentioned, but clarify exactly why i think those things don't need changes.

"The Veil" does not need it's Stress reduced, the "Arietta" move helps alleviate the Stress applied and removes the Horror applied from the Transformation itself. Horror is more managable than immediate Stress such as that the Abomination applies. Also, the Horror applied does make "Laudanum" actually worth a damn. (Since Horror effects aren't common enough.)

"Cleansing Tide" is perhaps alittle bit over the top in comparison to the Plague Doctor's "Battlefield Medicine" as it restores more Health and cures the same ailments. It does however not recover those ailments from both the target and yourself, but that is typically a quite niche scenario. I don't think the Ability is overpowered, but keep this one in mind that it could maybe use adjustments. Maybe only removing Blights instead of both Bleeds and Blights? (Matching more to the reasons why "Lamprey's Kiss" removes Blights, but not Bleeds.)

"Captivate" strikes me as her least useful Ability, but it has it's uses and it's place, but only mostly in Mark parties. It's use outside from such parties makes it harder to justify being used ever.

"Petrifying Gaze" is probably amongst the strongest Abilities in the game, double Stuns are not to be underestimated and this one does so without a drawback compared to a Hellion if you think outside from the fact that you need to use "The Veil" to have access to it. It is a fairly hard and dangerous slope to make this Ability good but also not worthless. The supposed drawback of Shuffling yourself doesn't typically strike as bad when drafted well in a party composition.

"Slither" is as like to say, the best opener besides the Petrifying Gaze, but mainly because of the massive DODGE buff it applies. Dodge Tanking is unique for this character. It might be a tad too much DODGE however, but enemies are fairly accurate so i suppose it's only fair it's really high for a squishy Hero such as the Lamia.

"Hiss" has only one gripe for me, and that it has 10% more chance to Blight than your typical percentage changes. Is there a particular reason for this? If not, then lowering it down by 10% puts it in range of standardized values. You also have the Blight Resist Reduction from the Stun as well, so i see no real need for it to be slightly above the normal percentages.

No comments about Camping Skills, i think they are all usable and well balanced!

This concludes my detailed review of the Lamia, i hope you found it both insightful and helpful in your quest for balancing this Hero. I for one will continue to utilize her kit in many of my upcoming dungeons and i'll look forward to see what else you might create beyond!

Godspeed.

Thanks so much! The increase Blight chance on Hiss was actually a typo and I've pushed out a patch to fix it :)

I already love using her, but I feel like the horror effect is a bit too much. It's easy to deal with on max light runs, but at lower light levels the stress is a really big problem, especially when the enemies themselves already do tons of stress damage

If I may make a suggestion: "Captivate" should be usable from any rank and should move the Lamia back by 1 rank. You could balance this out by removing its debuff. I have two reasons for saying this:

First, reverting from beast form is ackward. In her human form, she can't do anything in positions 1 or 2, except use her movement ability. This wouldn't be too big of a problem if it weren't for the fact that 2 of her 3 monster abilities ("Slither" and "Petrifying Gaze") can move her into those ranks. Allowing "Captivate" to be used from any rank fixes that issue and having it move the Lamia back by 1 rank lessens the gamble you make when you use "Petrifying Gaze", since if she lands in rank 2, she can return to her back rank positions for her next turn.

Secondly, "Captivate" is a bit underwhelming. While it does allow her to substitue an Occultist in mark-focused parties, in any other party composition, it would mostly be used as a Pull 1 effect. For comparison, the Occultist's Daemon Pull is a Pull 2 effect that also deals 50% DMG and can be used from position 2. It just isn't powerful enough to justify limiting it to ranks 3 and 4. Adding in the Back 1 effect on the Lamia also makes it a a recovery option should she be shuffled to the front ranks (currently, the only other option she has is "The Veil" ---> "Hiss"; much more effective, but much more costly)

Originally posted by Seignar:

If I may make a suggestion: "Captivate" should be usable from any rank and should move the Lamia back by 1 rank. You could balance this out by removing its debuff. I have two reasons for saying this:

First, reverting from beast form is ackward. In her human form, she can't do anything in positions 1 or 2, except use her movement ability. This wouldn't be too big of a problem if it weren't for the fact that 2 of her 3 monster abilities ("Slither" and "Petrifying Gaze") can move her into those ranks. Allowing "Captivate" to be used from any rank fixes that issue and having it move the Lamia back by 1 rank lessens the gamble you make when you use "Petrifying Gaze", since if she lands in rank 2, she can return to her back rank positions for her next turn.

Secondly, "Captivate" is a bit underwhelming. While it does allow her to substitue an Occultist in mark-focused parties, in any other party composition, it would mostly be used as a Pull 1 effect. For comparison, the Occultist's Daemon Pull is a Pull 2 effect that also deals 50% DMG and can be used from position 2. It just isn't powerful enough to justify limiting it to ranks 3 and 4. Adding in the Back 1 effect on the Lamia also makes it a a recovery option should she be shuffled to the front ranks (currently, the only other option she has is "The Veil" ---> "Hiss"; much more effective, but much more costly)

I don't actually mind with "Captivate" being used in any ranks, but moving back 1 just so she can used her other two support skills in rank 3 and 4 easily just makes her better than the other support vanilla heroes. Her beast form is a "Shuffler-type" and she can transform in any ranks regardless of Human or Beast, if you can deal with the horror. No need to make her human form "Captivate" to move her backwards. DODGE debuff has always been good IMO. Maybe add DMG, CRIT or SPD debuff to "Captivate" would be nice.

If shuffling is a problem on your side either from being surprise or pulled to the front, it would have been better to bring heroes with skills that allows them to move back and forth. Unfortunately, most of the "Marks" team members don't have "move me to the front" skills (except GR & HWM)

Hello again Marvin! After some additional testings and heavy consideration, i've established alittle bit more about the Lamia and wish to adjust my previous musings about what could be done with her.

I still don't think "The Veil" needs to have it's Stress reduced for the Party, however... I am curious whether or not it applies the same amount of Stress upon herself to maintain that form much like the Abomination? It feels as if she gets more stressed than he does, but i cannot confirm it.

I wish to retract my previous assumptions about "Cleansing Tide", as i failed to recognize that fact that though it is mostly a strictly better Ability compared to "Battlefield Medicine" from the Plague Doctor, the Lamia is more of a "True Support" character while the Plague Doctor is an "Offensive Support" with off-heals and that she is meant to apply damage and Blights, moreso than actually healing. It's like comparing the Crusader's "Battle Heal" to the Vestal's "Divine Grace", their numbers are totally different, but they each fulfill a certain role. It is just that they can fill in gaps. So "Cleansing Tide" is perfectly fine upon closer inspection.

"Arietta" i believe could afford to reduce 1 more point of Stress, though the Ability isn't bad when Leveled, it struggles to really be a Stress Heal at the very early levels of the Lamia. So upping it by 1 point effectively makes it quite abit stronger at Level 1, but barely any difference at higher Levels.

"Captivate" still remains as an underwhelming Ability, it's usability outside of Mark parties is what hurts this Ability the most. Perhaps if it reduced the targeted enemy's DMG instead of DODGE would make it more usable as a Debuff? DODGE is very thematic however, since it "lowers their guard" due to the Lamia's beauty. I cannot exactly tell how to buff this Ability, it isn't bad in Mark parties, but fails to have good uses outside of those parties outside from the Pull effect.

It is a rather considerable thing to think about whether "Slither" should move the Lamia Forward 3 or Forward 2. One thing that hurts her offensive capabilities is because she cannot use "Slither" twice in a row unless she gets shuffled back before her next turn hits, which is possible thanks to characters like Highwaymen or Man-at-Arms who can reliably move forward with their Skills. This is mainly a consideration, case you want to diversify the teams that the Lamia can be put into by making "Slither" have Forward 2 instead of Forward 3, so she can "Slither" and then "Slither" again provided she started in Rank 4 (which is a generally a less favorable position compared to Rank 3, since she cannot use "Hiss" from that spot.)

This concludes my updated review, everything else i've mentioned still remains the same, and i hope to see an update soon! Also, if it's not too much trouble, please also list all the unique "Trinkets" that the Lamia can equip in the main page as well (Falconer included) so we all can properly evaluate them and figure out whether or not they are too strong or weak.

Thanks again for an awesome Mod!

I do a lot of dark runs, and as a result find the transformation totally unworkable. With total darkness it ends up being 30ish stress for each party member, and the payout isn't worth it. Abomination shreds through enemies easily while transformed, and is effective from nearly every position, while causing less stress.

On the front end, Lamia is better than Abom IMO. No stun or damage abilities, but the heal is excellent as is the stress heal and captivate does great work with a mark party.

In order for the class to be a viable option for me at higher levels, the horror effect would need to be roughly half of what it is now. It's also very frustrating that she can cure horror at all the times it would be least helpful, ie when she isn't transformed.