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Hearts of Iron IV >  Workshop > maverick's Workshop > BlackICE Historical Immersion Mod > Discussions
BlackICE Historical Immersion Mod
Description Discussions840 Comments20967 Change Notes
mk11 8 May, 2024 @ 4:51am
USSR
A couple of people asking how to beat Germany as the USSR. So I thought I'ld make some notes.

Early decisions:
- collectivist propaganda or positive realism? I think collectivist wins hands-down, you get stability, recruitment, construction, defence bonuses, you lose in the general staff (especially only overall commander is Stalin who is worse than useless)

- do the Navy focuses or not? They take 99 days during the 5 year plan period which means either foregoing some good industrial focuses or having to defer some social/military focuses until 1938+ which eats into your military build up. So I think best to avoid.

- Spanish Civil War. Used to be I would go all-in aiming to win it for the Republicans in late 1938/early 1939. But with recent versions have not been able to do that. You have choices, go lightly and get some air and army experience and keep lots of equipment for more divisions, or go in with a lot and get more air experience that you can use and a lot of army experience allowing you to reorganise, get rid of some purge penalties, and get army spirits (if you have NSB).

1936/37
- concentrate on getting the 5-year plan. As long as you work out what focuses you can complete and take care where you build industry this is doable. Make sure you have lots of excess Steel and Aluminium production for exports.
- Spanish Civil War. Keep the republicans alive while gaining experience. Pick generals that will survive the purge. As soon as your 5 divisions arrive disband divisions with bad templates to free up equipment to keep them supplied.
- take the Civilian option for the 3rd 5YP

1938/1939/1940
- just build military factories, engine factories, aircraft factories, power plants
- annex the Baltic states peacefully
- fight the Winter War as late as possible, take peace when offered

1940/1941
- I like to fill in some gaps on railways and build up a few forts

Barbarossa
- try to have no focus when it starts so you can get Stalin's speech and the relocation focus out the way ASAP, then start on Army reform. When you complete you need to decide whether you can hold Kiev long enough to complete the Revolution Spreads.
- delay and fight everywhere but make sure you are not surrounded
- use your mobile forces to crush Finland fast and then redeploy to the main front. With Finland conquered you can try and isolate German forces in Northern Norway by landings at Tromso and Narvik.
- usually can hold the river from Riga, and part but not all of the Dnepr.
- Germany has two bonuses on the attack, one expires September and one in December
- With the winter attack bonus you can push the Germans back a bit during the winter
- your aircraft will perform badly, best seems to be to keep them grounded most of the time and surge them all into one area occasionally
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Showing 1-10 of 10 comments
equinox1911 7 Jun, 2024 @ 11:02am 
I have a question that irks mefora bit now, i did all the normal stuff like 2nd 5yr plan etc, but after the purge my army has like -116% org. this results in literally 0 org making my untis unable to move into enemy provinces during poland, baltic and the winter war...
all the focuses i found that help are blocked behind barbarossa or early war against germany.
and the 50xp decision to lower it by 2% only shows up while im at war
wtf am i missing?
#1
MaxiGen 7 Jun, 2024 @ 7:25pm 
Mod creator hates USSR. Nothing to do with reality or simulation of reality. Go and modify files to fix org.
#2
mk11 8 Jun, 2024 @ 1:30am 
Originally posted by equinox1911:
I have a question that irks mefora bit now, i did all the normal stuff like 2nd 5yr plan etc, but after the purge my army has like -116% org. this results in literally 0 org making my untis unable to move into enemy provinces during poland, baltic and the winter war...
all the focuses i found that help are blocked behind barbarossa or early war against germany.
and the 50xp decision to lower it by 2% only shows up while im at war
wtf am i missing?

There are a lot of things you can do to get rid of some of the minuses. However, you are correct that you can only really get rid of most of the minus after war with Germany.

From memory:
- mobilised your forces (very important)
- improved training (can only do one step)
- learnt Siberian lessons
- added the spirit of the army that gives +5% (requires NSB)
- researched radios and added signal companies and radios to your divisions
- research all WW1 doctrines

I also like to research the first of the WW2 command doctrines although I not really sure that is the best one to go for first.

If you follow the historic pre-war timeline.

Poland - you should be able to advance but will have problems winning fights some times.
Baltics - take over peacefully
Finland - you can only delay in the North and initially won't make progress in the South but eventually should be able to breakthrough and then can rampage around. Until you run out of supply near Helsinki and have to wait for railway repairs (although you can do a marine landing in the port to the West of Helsinki).
#3
MaxiGen 8 Jun, 2024 @ 3:26pm 
The modder (and a wider public opinion) is operating under false knowledge, that Stalin's "paranoia" was hindering the Red Army strength. In reality it is quite opposite - with every "purge", i.e removal of personnel, that were ineffective/corrupt/counter-revolutionary/opposite to goals of USSR/etc - the Red Army got stronger, hence the "organisation" should increase!, So, for example, at the beginning of WW2, lets say the org is at 100% (in relation to itself) and then with every "purge" it should increase.
Again, the current mod settings have nothing to do with reality or simulation of the reality.
#4
mk11 9 Jun, 2024 @ 1:02am 
So in game terms how would you represent the poor performance of the USSR army early? It seems to have come down to poor training, lack of initiative, shortage of radios, and the immediate problems caused by reorganising the divisions just before Barbarossa.

I suppose one way would be to cap the training level divisions can reach by exercising if they have low soldier or officer training laws and then putting in some gates that prevent the USSR improving those laws before war.

The doctrine issues are adequately handled by the increased land doctrine research cost and the need to complete all the WW1 techs first.

One thing it gets right is that you lose a lot of good generals but then get replacements and various focuses to increase skill levels.

The Winter War shambles seems to have been as much a case of not mobilising in advance.
#5
Казак 9 Jun, 2024 @ 7:13pm 
Originally posted by mk11:
So in game terms how would you represent the poor performance of the USSR army early? It seems to have come down to poor training, lack of initiative, shortage of radios, and the immediate problems caused by reorganising the divisions just before Barbarossa.

I suppose one way would be to cap the training level divisions can reach by exercising if they have low soldier or officer training laws and then putting in some gates that prevent the USSR improving those laws before war.

The doctrine issues are adequately handled by the increased land doctrine research cost and the need to complete all the WW1 techs first.

One thing it gets right is that you lose a lot of good generals but then get replacements and various focuses to increase skill levels.

The Winter War shambles seems to have been as much a case of not mobilising in advance.

The ridiculous ORG Debuff Is kind of crazy. The USSR didn't do great but they were able to mount quite good counteroffensives prior to even Moscow.

And dear god do you have to research WW1 doctrine? The USSR did not have a doctrine issue, they were one of the most advanced armies doctrinally. They had experience in the civil war and during the Polish-Soviet War, as well as Khalkin Gol. They were the first army to recognize the Operational Level of Warfare, and the first to employ paratroopers which would inspire the Germans.

They had a lot of issues but Doctrine is one of the things they excelled at pre war, it was all in the execution where they faltered early on.
#6
mk11 10 Jun, 2024 @ 1:34am 
Kazak, not sure how much you have played the mod. Immediately in 1941 the USSR can launch an offensive to finish off the Finns in the continuation war.

Germany starts Barbarossa with two big bonuses which prevent the USSR holding well. The first finishes at the end of August and then the USSR can launch limited counter offensives. e.g. to drive back crossings of the Dnepr. The second one expires at the end of December (I think) that plus the winter offensive bonus allows the USSR to launch sustained offensives. E.g. pushing from Vitebsk to Minsk.

Regardless of the means with which the outcome is achieved. The outcome as USSR player seems fair.
#7
Казак 10 Jun, 2024 @ 12:03pm 
Originally posted by mk11:
Kazak, not sure how much you have played the mod. Immediately in 1941 the USSR can launch an offensive to finish off the Finns in the continuation war.

Germany starts Barbarossa with two big bonuses which prevent the USSR holding well. The first finishes at the end of August and then the USSR can launch limited counter offensives. e.g. to drive back crossings of the Dnepr. The second one expires at the end of December (I think) that plus the winter offensive bonus allows the USSR to launch sustained offensives. E.g. pushing from Vitebsk to Minsk.

Regardless of the means with which the outcome is achieved. The outcome as USSR player seems fair.
Yeah no I played it for the first time after that post, I was just commenting on what was said here.

Doctrine is pretty wack, I like the new systems but doctrine is not releastically done for the USSR, just really expands vanilla’s inaccuracy.

But I am in complete agreement, USSR 41’ org debuff is fine. People are just expecting a 44’ Soviet juggernaut which is not historical.
#8
Old_newbie 8 Aug, 2024 @ 10:41am 
I consider myself as seasoned HOI IV player, in vanilla I can easily stop Germany without losing any land by France or USSR against AI.

I've played this mod 3 times as USSR, every time with more and more optimisations. I'm getting my ass kicked all over the place. Third time I've survived until summer of 1942, then my forces were defeated.

I get the ORG debuff, and I think it is fine. But why there is Defence debuff like 70%? Did my soldiers completely forgot how to sit in a foxhole? I've managed to get 6 org in 1941 (18 from template - radios all over and all the good stuff) and I barely can defend even with superior numbers for 1 day in battle. Basically, you have to create layers of infantry about 3-4 divisions in a province to create "manswamp" to stave off the advance (I will check it later because it is my last idea how to survive and not get wrecked).

I''ve tried to create defensive lines, defend behind rivers, all tricks - germans just push. 1 infantry division with 25 Org can take it on a chin and still push your forces back. Templates probably should be also superoptimised with less equipment as possible (I used semistandart 9 inf, 2 light Art, 2 med art + divisional troops).

Also equipment durability is, my God, ABSOLUTELY SENSATIONAL - like 30-40% for Artillery. Do not train your troops long with artillery. Make 1 template for training(without Art), another template with art and when you trained enough - then add Art. Otherwise you will lose comical amounts of equipment (you will still lose a lot, but not as much).

And probably on 4th run with all optimisations I can come up with I hope to survive till 1943 (hopefully after that USSR will be OK). BICE team should turn it down a notch) I do not get how casual guy can even hope to survive in this.
Last edited by Old_newbie; 8 Aug, 2024 @ 10:45am
#9
mk11 21 Aug, 2024 @ 9:20am 
Casual guy can't save the day as USSR. You certainly need to use appropriate "tricks", For example, the way you do training - I also make sure they have old uniforms and old rifles. You do need to defend in depth with a 2nd, in some places a 3rd line. You also need to use strategic movement to rescue from pockets before they close, start your own retreats so you can control the direction, etc.
#10
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