Army cap is static, you only ever get unlimited common, 10 special, and 5 rare per army. What it is referring to i think is that if you're playing with combined caps (army + factionwide) you increase your limit on certain units by building certain structures.

So if you have made enough buildings to place a cap of river trolls at say 12, that means you can put up to 10 river trolls in one army, and 2 in another as they're special capped at 1 point.

Wish I could tell you VC but until ushoran releases I don't play em :p. I'll get my friend who plays them occasionally to tell you what he knows about their cap.

Also assuming you mean vamp counts and not vamp coast :p.

EDIT: He didn't really know either, sorry.

Originally posted by Ghilgamesch:

Army cap is static, you only ever get unlimited common, 10 special, and 5 rare per army. What it is referring to i think is that if you're playing with combined caps (army + factionwide) you increase your limit on certain units by building certain structures.

So if you have made enough buildings to place a cap of river trolls at say 12, that means you can put up to 10 river trolls in one army, and 2 in another as they're special capped at 1 point.

Wish I could tell you VC but until ushoran releases I don't play em :p. I'll get my friend who plays them occasionally to tell you what he knows about their cap.

Thank you very much. I am just wondering as someone new to SFO, what supposed to be a special and rare.

In Manfred's army, he had 1/5 of rare. I suspect it could be the Varghulf, but I didn't seem any tooltip to confirm.

Army + faction seems interesting, I just want to know what is special and rare before accepting in order to plan my build correctly.
The tooltip said "core units don't use cap", but in the building tree screen, the tooltip didn't said what is core and what is not, nor what classifies as anything else, unless I've missed it.

Yes, Vampire Counts, the first and only true VC name holder.

___

So, ushoran release, it's from SFO or is it another mod?
Do you happen to know if this update, will include VC, or is it just skaven specific?

Here's my best guess, consulted my pal who knows slightly better than I :P

Common: skeletons, crypt ghouls, zombies, fell bats, dire wolves.
Special: Probably all 1 point? Black knights, crypt horrors, hexwraiths, cairnwraiths, vargheists, corpse carts, graveguard.
Rare: Prob 1 point: Terrorgheist, blood knights, mortis engine, dismounted blood knights, vargulf, grail knights 2 point: Zombie Dragon.

And yeah It's the vargulf; large single entity monsters are always rare cap from what I can tell.

I main lizards, brets, and orcs so if ever you need to know the cap list for those guys I gotcha fam.

Oh whoops forgot to answer your other questions. Ushoran will be vanilla and I'm guessing he's coming since Nefarata is pretty much guaranteed eventually, and they added the kingdom of strigos to the right of Wurzag in the last update. Also there's tower of the bloodytooth that Imrik gets on his starting faction. Nothings guaranteed but it's just a hopeful hunch based on all the writing on the walls.

Also nothing VC coming this update though you can expect some mnior rebalancing as per usual. This update is pretty much exclusively for skaven and wood elves, with SFO also reworking norsca.

Alright thanks, very much.
I'll rush my current WE campaign and start a VC. SFO may not be very well balanced, but it's much more fun than vanilla.

I mean, 6 unit vargheist with hunger, varghulf actually being good, dangerous and a damage dealer with a toon of attack speed, instead of upkeep dump as it's in vanilla, cairn wraiths with perfect vigor, vampires with strong vigor, zombie stack with 220 models each, blood dragons are actually a nemesis to be feared and so on...

It's so lorefull accurate and more enjoyable overall.

No problem man, glad I could help. I pretty much always play with combined caps :D

Also if you ever plan to do head to head campaigns down the line I've found SFO is INFINITELY better balanced for that, it's not even a comparison. Granted some things slip through the cracks like how OP tiktaqtoe is (we pretty much keep him banned) but beyond it when it comes to campaign balance I'd take it over vanilla every time.

And I wouldn't even make the case that SFO is all that unbalanced, they just have a different balancing philosophy. Vanilla wants all your units to be pretty much the exact same so no one can be OP. SFO lets you have OP units but they come at greatly increased cost and more often times than not that one OP unit wont be worth all the crap units you could be buying instead. Though I use OP to mean strong AF, and not actually OP.

I've played SFO once as Settra, I think it was before Malus.
Back then, I noticed the following changes.

The cannon fodder trash units, were no longer useless and could hold the line (much better than vanilla)
The chariots could kill as many units as in vanilla, but they're immortal. Seriously they would take no damage.
The passive healing from the lore of nehekara was simply unbalanced. I could spam the 2 WoM spells and get my army permanently at 100% health.
The Vortex from nehekara worked as a pit of shades, but much cheaper.
Overall while other spells were balanced, damaging spells were not, because if units take longer to die, that means buff/debuff spells got nerfed, if their duration doesn't increase as well (which didn't.) but damaging spells kept with the same strength as in vanilla. I'd argue that the hurricane from nehekara was actually stronger, due to being almost static, so it would deal more damage than in vanilla, then combine extra WoM to spam this vortex + immortal army and immortal chariots... Was not very challenging.
And also while other spells were decent, there just wasn't any reason to not cast the 2 WoM for healing and the vortex for damage, because they're simply the most efficient combo for WoM use.

Anyhow, I'll give it another try as VC. I'll play a campaign first before making any conclusion, then if I find something that seems not explicitly wanted, I'll leave my suggestion feedback for balance.

Ah yeah you're def right. Somewhat recently spells got massive price hikes in campaign tho so they're way less abusive as they were, and before that was the large creature imba where they were borderline impossible to kill. But they're always tuning and refining and at least moving on course to a better balanced game.

Guess my hate for vanilla just doesn't make me as objective as i'd like :D.

You're absolutely right about SFO vs Vanilla in terms of fun. Honestly I had much more fun with SFO with the mentioned unbalanced than I ever did with vanilla. Although that time I wanted a challenge, so I unistalled the mod after conquering the desert.
And then restarted the campaign once again.

I also noticed that Pendulum only last for 3 seconds, so it's working almost as a small foot of gork. I dunnot if it was changed recently or not, but definitely it's a change on the right direction IMO. Anyways, I'll start a new campaign as VC. :)