Total War: WARHAMMER II

Total War: WARHAMMER II

Ultimate Chaos (Updated for Silent!)
crawlers 21 May, 2018 @ 5:43am
Crawlers' Janky List
I will attempt to compile all of the issues, bugs, imbalances, and ugly things that I can find into this list for easy tracking and fixing by Steelb_l_ade.

*Reported as done/added to next update by Steelb_l_ade but not yet confirmed ingame
#Seemingly unfixable

The Good
6/6/18 Nurgle's healing ability is probably too powerful, compared to other healing in the game. It is very effective at keeping characters alive for its cost.
6/11/18 Daemonic aura that lord of change has grants up to 15% ward save with 3 skill points. This is extremely powerful on a lord that starts with 25% ward save and has tzeentch skills to raise it even more. Add items and it is possible to go over 100% ward save.

The Bad
5/21/18 Corruption skill is pretty horrible because chaos armies get massive amounts of corruption anyway and increasing it by 4 or even 12 will only change the province max corruption by a tiny amount, which will never be reached anyway because chaos doesnt stay there long. Is it possible to make it give corruption to nearby provinces?
5/21/18 Arch Heretic role requires level 8, but by the time the lord is level 8 they are not using cultists anymore but have moved onto better units. Maybe better to lower it to level 1 or something low so it can be properly assigned to the weak lords who use cultists can have it assigned to them. Lords who use cultists generally arent doing any fighting anyway and are hiding in the back till they can grow.
5/21/18 Tzeentch forces seems to like chaos spawns, having some ways to buff them, but no way to reduce their upkeep. This means it is unprofitable to use them in an army where other units with similar power will cost less.
5/21/18 Slicing shards (slaanesh spell) seems rather weak in the damage it does, considering that you have to make the enemy rout in order to use it (and therefore not use your countless numbber of other slaanesh abilties that make the enemy unbreakable and also already win or nearly win against that unit). It seems to do about as much damage as hysterical frenzy.
5/22/18 Nurgle spell that grants poison weapons is pretty redundant since there is a lord skill that grants it to the whole army and most nurgle units already deliver poison.
5/22/18 There is a serious lack of AP damage on all 4 paths. They do far far less AP than regular chaos units.
5/22/18 Slaanesh trait Alluring is quite useless since +6 leadership does nothing on slaanesh heroes/lords and the -1 leadership on enemies is basically nothing (nurgle traits can give 2/4/5 leadership loss). The tooltip suggests it should have a stronger impact on the enemy's psyche than it does.
5/22/18 Tzeentch basic fireball spell is weak for its cost, as it requires far more mana than the regular fireball and is only somewhat stronger. Perhaps lower mana cost by 2 or buff its dmg a bit? Now with the changes to vanilla fireball (a good deal of its regular dmg has become AP) this applies even more.
5/29/18 Chosen Swordmasters have stats lower than their peers.
6/6/18 Undivided have less upkeep reduction than path units and need more of it.
Path chaos reduction: 20% from buildings unique to them, 16% from skills, 10% from innate lord ability
Demons get 25% more
Path knights get a bit more too
Undivided chaos reduction: 15% (chosen) -30% (most units) from buildings unique to them, NOTHING from skills
This makes chosen really expensive compared to units of similar power from other paths.

The Ugly
5/21/18 Corruption skill tooltip at lvl 2-3 suggests it does nothing at those levels.
*5/21/18 Cultist boosting ability suggests it boosts attack and leadership of cultists, it actually boosts damage and leadership instead.
Khorne boosting ability suggests it gives attack and charge, actually gives damage and charge.
#5/21/18 There is no keeper of secrets, maybe not fixable without using an ugly model.
5/21/18 The final upgrade to giant recruitment building that lets you get a dragon doesnt reduce upkeep like the previous one did.
5/22/18 Demonic Invigoration says it increases atk and armor, it actually increases dmg and armor.
#5/22/18 There is no lord version of the great unclean one.
5/22/18 Louen the bretonian king (and maybe others) can get premonition trait saying he is blessed by Tzeentch. Eg. https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1393172033
6/10/18 Regiments of renown are not properly aligned with factions (eg. daemonspew arent nurgle units, etc).
6/11/18 Tzeentch army boosting skill claims to grant damage (a tiny amount compared to spawns' 160 dmg) only to spawns but in fact grants it to both tzeentch units and chaos spawns.
6/11/18 T3 slaan upgrade has a tooltip "the lure of chaos is a seductive force" which sounds very awkward. Perhaps remove "the lure of" as this would probably make it look better?
6/11/18 The tooltips of nurgle champion abilties "Putrescent Explosion" ("You really want a description for this one?"), "Indescribable Foulness" ("It's indescribable"), and "Stream of Corruption" ("Vomiting forth such a tide of foulness would never occur outside of watching Jersey Shore") are horrible and immersion breaking.

The Broken
(need to find what is causing/how to reproduce) 5/21/18 Picking sigvald blocks quests for archaon and Kholec, so you cant get their items. Havent tested with others yet.
5/21/18 Demon recruitment time reduction upgrade doesnt reduce their recruitment time, it is still 3 before and after researching it.
#5/21/18 On low unit size, pleasure cannon and hellfire batteries have just one unit in them.
5/21/18 Infernal gateway (tz spell) seems to be unable to target anything. It supposedly targets "ground" but shows up as not a valid target wherever it is pointed. Basically the spell cant ever be used. Maybe have it able to target enemies? Edit: it seems it is a Direct Damge spell, and therefore the game tries to target it upon units, but this is not a valid target for it so it fails. It will probably work if it is allowed to target units and not just the ground.
#5/21/18 Some path boosting skills (nurgle and tz) do not count as skills for the purposes of requirements of the next skill eg. https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1391692067 https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1391725616 https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1396581174
*5/22/18 Artilery batteries are not immune to horde infighting like their solo versions are.
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1409260029
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1409260247
6/14/18 missing chosen slot with Sigvald as starting LL, and most positions except arch heretic cant be assigned to anyone.
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1411791243

Last edited by crawlers; 4 Sep, 2018 @ 11:18am
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Showing 1-15 of 33 comments
crawlers 21 May, 2018 @ 6:11am 
If someone finds issues please tell me so I can put them on the list (once confirmed). Similarly, once they are fixed, Steelb_l_ade, please tell me so I can take them down.
Steel  [developer] 21 May, 2018 @ 12:15pm 
Ta, i'llm take a look at all these when Im do the next large update. Not all of them are addressable.
Steel  [developer] 21 May, 2018 @ 1:33pm 
Reduced ward save from the mark of tzeentch for caster units.
Reduced magic resistance from tzeentch magic resist ability
Increased cost of rot, glorious rot
Reduced upkeep on daemons from campaign skillsets
Reduced upkeep on god path units from campaign skills by 50%
Reduced daemon upkeep from rifts by 50%.
Reduced global upkeep from weapons chain for units
Chaos Rifts (2nd Tier) now grant upkeep reducation on Forsaken/Chaos Spawn units.
Corrected battle kill buffing cultists etc so they do what thier tooltip actually says) melee attack instead of weapon damage)
Added a 'space' in that tooltip =p.
Fxied missing tooltipm 'Stories'
Made changes that shoudl fix Daemon Recruitment times with the appropriate tech.

Fixes to the Chaos invasion script.
Steel  [developer] 21 May, 2018 @ 1:34pm 
See? I do listen =p
crawlers 21 May, 2018 @ 1:37pm 
Impressive, I will mark them until I see them gone ingame, then i will remove them from the list.

Edit: not sure what you mean by "Fxied missing tooltipm 'Stories'"
Last edited by crawlers; 21 May, 2018 @ 1:42pm
Steel  [developer] 21 May, 2018 @ 1:59pm 
Sorry, I cant uplaod it right now cause the CA launcher is playing up.
Steel  [developer] 21 May, 2018 @ 1:59pm 
Oh, that refers to the Tzeentch Warrior/Knigth descriptions. They are just generic, they had better ones in Warhammer 1.
crawlers 21 May, 2018 @ 1:59pm 
No rush, get it whenever you can. I can wait.
Steel  [developer] 21 May, 2018 @ 2:00pm 
Soem of the minor stuff (like that) got lost in translation, in the orginal version all the units had proper icons/background in the loadcrseens and such but CA removed that so little surived with port between games.
Steel  [developer] 21 May, 2018 @ 2:12pm 
and now the answer to the rest of it:
Regarding the item problems, Mark of Tzeentch/Forbidden Rod/Talisman of Preservation etc. These are vanilla items, unedited. In order to change them woudl mean readically reducing mod compatiability which I'm not prepare dto do, yes some combos are very overpowered. If CA cannot correct the obviously unbalanced combos in the game one person isnt goign to be able to either! Basically if you want a fun game don't combine crazy item builds to amke yourself invincible.

Cultist heroes are meant to be early game, they are not as skilled as empire wizards (more hegde wizard heretics) and i think to make them such would be immersion breaking. Besides thier ability to heal Daemons makes them universally handy.

There will not be a Keeper of Secrets becasue teh animations do not exist to make it looks good.

Dunno about the Siggy quest thing, ahvent encountered that issue before.
Warriors of nurgle don't take two turns, I checked.
So Finally the battery thing is explained, I dont play the game on small units sizes. The mod is balanced for 'large' That sint somehting a modder can fix becaus ethe other settings reduce unit size by a set %.
crawlers 21 May, 2018 @ 2:18pm 
The OP combo is forbidden rod + healing/(magic) damage reduction, which is something nurgle/tzeentch can do.

If it is intended that cultist heroes are suppose to suck later, then they are working as intended and I will remove that. Maybe they can get some kind of niche role strategicly by doing some action others cant? Setting up cults in enemy lands, lowering public order/increasing corruption or something?

Would it be unacceptable to use a placeholder model for keeper of secrets, like some giant daemonette or giant modified chaos lord or something? Would this be too much a horrible sight that it overwhelms the needs of gameplay?

Did you check nurgle warriors without the 3rd upgrade that "grants 1 turn reduction to daemons"? If so, I will take it down from the list till i manage to reproduce it more consistently.
Last edited by crawlers; 21 May, 2018 @ 2:23pm
Steel  [developer] 21 May, 2018 @ 7:35pm 
Changes to vanilla items isn't somehting this mod is going to address, it's too far reaching.
Orginally all the heroes had "provincial powers" -CA removed that for warhammer 2. That's why they lost that ability.
If I did a half assed version of a KOS it'd get more complaints than praise, If I can't make it look half decent, It isn't going in.
I checked the Nurgle guys in the DB.
crawlers 22 May, 2018 @ 6:58am 
I will see if I can get a screenshot of the nurgle warriors later to confirm whats going on. Perhaps something is adding a turn to them that you have not noticed.
crawlers 23 May, 2018 @ 2:58pm 
Added a few more things to the list, I will look after the update and update the list accordingly once I confirm that the issues are gone.
Steel  [developer] 23 May, 2018 @ 3:08pm 
Q: Nurgle's healing ability allows spamming of forbidden rod -So does A: Mazdamundi/Vampires/Life users/others, its an inherit game inbalance.

Q: Corruption skill is pretty horrible because chaos armies get massive amounts of corruption anyway and increasing it by 4 or even 12 will only change the province max corruption by a tiny amount, which will never be reached anyway because chaos doesnt stay there long. Is it possible to make it give corruption to nearby provinces? / Corruption skill tooltip at lvl 2-3 suggests it does nothing at those levels.

A:-True-ish. The tooltip issue is caused by something rather complicated due to modding nature that can't be easily fixed -basically it isnt worth it. Also some skills ahve always been more useful than others, this one exists because some players just love to spam corruption for the big numbers and it's basically fun to out-do the Warrior Priests\Sigmar Fools.

Q: Slaanesh mark is terrible, as it grants psychology immunity on a faction with very high leadership and many fear causing/psych immune units. It is still useless for non slaanesh armies.
A: Meh, kinda true, but that's what it does in the board game too, It's always been underpowered. But I feel thier custom poison/mass heal debuff powers make up for it.

Q: Arch Heretic role requires level 10, but by the time the lord is level 10 they are not using cultists anymore but have moved onto better units. Maybe better to lower it to level 1 or something low so it can be properly assigned to the weak lords who use cultists can have it assigned to them.
A: True as well, but the titles really only exist for fun. Calling your dude an Arch Heretic is always a laugh, and besides if upkeep is an issue some people run a Bloodthirster with 19 cultists just for him to have a fan club.

Q: Plague doctor skill is very weak, granting 1% recovery per level which is less than skills other races get, and really insignificnant compared to the 10/30/60% net recovery from nurgle upgrades. It should either grant more recuperation, or do something more (extra attrition resistance maybe?).
A: Tried this at higher stats before, it was ridiculously overpowered in certain combinations.

Q: Tzeentch forces seems to like chaos spawns, having some ways to buff them, but no way to reduce their upkeep.
A: They do now.

Q: Slicing shards (slaanesh spell) seems rather weak in the damage it does,
A: Kinda true, but its fun to add insult to injury by slicing up thier best supposed elite unit. It is very situational like most Slaanesh stuff.


Q: Picking sigvald blocks quests for archaon and Kholec, so you cant get their items. Havent tested with others yet.
A: Sod knows. Never happened to me and I play Sigvald.

Q: On low unit size, pleasure cannon and hellfire batteries have just one unit in them.
A: By using a lower unit option in the menu you are basically running a mod that reduces all unit sizes by 33%. Answer? Turn that mod off.

Infernal gateway bug is presistant,. sometime sit works, sometimes not, I really dunno.
The skill tree bug is a new one and just plain weird, not exactly progress breaking though
Same with Artillery batteries. More is likely to get broken fixing those than it's worth.






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