Total War: WARHAMMER II

Total War: WARHAMMER II

Crynsos' Faction Unlocker+
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Crynsos  [developer] 23 Nov, 2017 @ 6:03am
Looking for Suggestions: Starting Units
I aim to eventually add custom starting units to every single faction on the map, based on their lore and background story, like how for example the various Dwarf and Human factions are known to specialize into different types of weaponry.

Adding loreful starting units to Dwarf factions is something I already did in Warhammer I and just didn't implement yet to not worsen the "Dwarfaggeddon", but here are some examples for what those looked (and will look) like once re-implemented.

Karak Norn (focused on Fire Weaponry):
Miners with Blasting Charges, Irondrakes, Flame Cannon

Karak Ziflin (focused on Melee):
Thane, Ironbreakers

Parravon (focused on Pegasi):
2x Pegasus Knights, Knights of the Realm


At the moment, I'm looking primarily for starting unit suggestions for all factions other than Warhammer 1's Dwarfs and Bretonnia factions and also excluding the Southern Realms / New World Colony factions, as those will be handled by Cataph.

What I'm looking for is between 2 and 4 starting unit suggestions (1 may be replaced by a hero and / or a RoR unit) that are of medium - high tier (so for example Handgunners are valid, but I consider Crossbowmen as too common, for both Dwarfs and Empire), define the starting gameplay of the faction as per their lore background or logical loreful reasoning if there is no real lore to a faction, like how the Black Venom goblin tribe focuses on forest goblin units rather than Orcs.
A quick comment on why you chose certain unit combinations for a faction would be great.

I typically limit myself based on the units' custom battle values and try to hit a similar amount of total points as the official factions of that race.
So in the case of Greenskins and Black Venom, Grimgor starts with Orc Boar Boyz, Black Orcs and a Doom Diver, which amounts to 2700 points, while Black Venom starts with a Arachnarok Spider and the Deff Creepers RoR unit, which amount to 2650 points and are thus very thematic (Forest Goblins) and optimal in a points comparison.
I generally value heroes at around 800 - 1000 points.

I should also be able to make these starting units editable by other modders if so desired, so that they can replace them with more fitting ones themselves (like from their own mods customizing these factions).

Thanks for anyone who chooses to dig a bit into lore and help me out with this, so I can focus on improving other parts of the mod while the suggestions come in.
Last edited by Crynsos; 23 Nov, 2017 @ 6:16am
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Showing 1-15 of 46 comments
zombieflanders 23 Nov, 2017 @ 8:06am 
So here's my first set of suggestions, for Imperial factions. These are taken from a number of sources, most prominently the Empire Heraldry Handbook, the End Times sourcebooks, and the Sons of Sigmar WFRP sourcebook:

Averland
Halberdiers (von Kragsburg's Guard)
Empire Knights (Knights of the Black Bear)
Knights of the Blazing Sun

Hochland
Halberdiers (Drakwald Patrols)
Handgunners

Marienburg
Greatswords (Pale Blades)
Halberdiers (Golden Pinions)
Swordsmen (van Klumpf's Bucaneers)

Middenland/Middenheim
Swordsmen (Swords of Ulric)
Greatswords (Carroburg Greatswords)
Empire Knights (Knights of the White Wolf)

Nordland
Spearmen w/shields (Nordland Seahawks)
Free Company
Empire Knights (Hunters of Sigmar)

Ostland
Handgunners (Fireloques of Ferlangen)

Ostermark
Halberdiers (Death's Heads)
Empire Knights (Hammers of Sigmar)

Stirland
Halberdiers (Stir River Patrol)
Stirland's Revenge
Empire Knights

Talabecland/Talabheim
Swordsmen/Sigmar's Sons or Halberdiers (Craterblades/Taalbaston Guard)
Hammer of the Witches/Sunmaker
Knights of the Blazing Sun

Wissenland/Nuln
Pistoliers/Outriders
Handgunners (Nuln Ironsides)
Helstorm/Helblaster or Steam Tank
Kami 23 Nov, 2017 @ 8:24am 
I'll suggest stuff for Skaven I suppose. Skaven costs for ME were 2800 for Queek and 2450 for Pestilens. Seems to be somewhat based on starting area difficulty (perhaps).

Clan Eshin
Assassin
Gutter Runner Slingers
Death Runners
2550 points~
(Clan of assassins, these are their units)

Clan Moulder
Rat Ogre
Hell Pit Abomination
2600 points
(The monstrosities of moulder)

Clan Skryre
Warpfire Thrower
Warp Lightning Cannon
Warlock Engineer
2600 points~

Clan Septik
Plague Monk Censor Bearers
Plague Priest
2200 points~
(They're a vassal of clan Pestilens)

Clan Spittle
Stormvermin (Halberds)x2
2000 points
(Not much on them, apparently their warriors hunted Lizardmen until they were in turn hunted down, so generic warrior units I guess fit the bill, particularly ones good against big dino's.)

Clan Gnaw
Clanrats (shields)x2
Rat Ogresx2
2275 points

(Not much here either but they do sell warpstone to Clan Moulder, hence the rat ogres, they're also barbaric so basic clanrats sort of fit the bill.)
Last edited by Kami; 24 Nov, 2017 @ 8:31pm
Younghappy 23 Nov, 2017 @ 8:31am 
The Empire's starting points are 2400 (Franz) and 2550 (Volkmar). Here are my suggestions for some of the minor Empire factions.
  • Hochland: 2x Handgunners, Empire Captain. ~2000 points. Hochland is the home of the long rifle and the Drakwald Patrol, which produces some of the Empire's finest officers.
  • Nordland: 2x Free Company Militia, Helstorm Rocket Battery. 2250 points. Nordland is constantly bearing the brunt of Norscan raids and their coastal guards are famed. Free Company are the closest thing to Nordland marines, and rockets are great for routing massed marauder infantry.
  • Ostermark: 2x Halberdiers, Outriders w/ Grenade Launchers. 2100 points. Ostermark is home to the famous halberdiers the Death's Heads, and the grenade launchers would give them an early advantage against the VC's weak but numerous zombies and skellingtons.
  • Stirland: 2x Flagellants, Stirland's Revenge (RoR Free Company). 1875 points. A lot of the Empire's crazies flock to Stirland hoping to die in battle against the Undead. Mixu's LL mod also adds a legendary witch hunter lord with unique buffs for Flagellants, so starting with a couple would be nice for those of us with that mod.
  • Talabecland: Knights of the Blazing Sun and Sigmar's Sons (RoR Swordsmen). 2000 points. Both of these units are headquartered in Talabheim in the lore.

    I'll update this as I think of more.
Last edited by Younghappy; 23 Nov, 2017 @ 8:56am
Kami 23 Nov, 2017 @ 9:06am 
Next I'll do some Dark Elves, might need some help with this one though as there's less to go off of for many of the factions. So I'll start with the easy ones. Costs for DE were 3000 for Malekith and 3250 for Morathi.

Har Ganeth
Witch Elves
Executioners
Death Hag
2900 points~
(Home to Hellebron and her witch elf cronies and the Executioners)

Karond Kar
Corsairsx2
Corsairsx2 (Hand bows)
2700 points
(Slaver capital of the Dark Elves, main shipyards etc)

Hag Graef
Cold One Dread Knights
Cold One Knights (Lances)
Khainite Assassin
3200 points~
(Rich city and Malus Darkblade was very cav focused on TT, Hag Graef is also known for its surplus of assassins.)

Ghrond
Sorceress (Dark)
Black Dragon
2900 points~
(Home of sorcery and luxurious palaces, Black Dragon didn't really fit anywhere else, thought it would hit one of the most powerful and mystic Druchii Cities.)

Clar Karond
Harpiesx2
Hydra
3000 points
(Beastmasters of Clar Karond)

~~From here on it's mostly just feel, very few references~~

Deadwood Sentinels
Dark Riders (Repeater Crossbow)x2
Dark Riders (Shields)x2
2300 points
(No lore on these guys anywhere, but feel the scouty cav fit the area somewhat at least)

Bleak Holds
Shadesx2
Shades (Great Weapons)
3000 points
(They're close to the Blackspine Mountains where the Shades make their home)

Blood Hall Coven
Witch Elvesx2
Sorceress
2400 points~
(Apparently based on a trio of sorceress's who fled Morathi, regardless feel witch elves fit the bill here)

The Forgebound
Har Ganeth Executioners
Reaper Bolt Throwerx2
2600 points
(Redid them, think the Bolt throwers still fit the theme but I wanted a heavily armored troop due to the Iron mines they start with, this will make it easier to make the faction traits too for me)


Scourge of Khaine
Corsairs
Corsairs (hand bows)
Cold One Dread Knights
2650 points
(Nothing to go off, perhaps a black ark slaving invasion of Ulthuan? With some opportunistic nobles in tow)

Cult of Excess
Witch Elvesx2
Death Hag
2400 points~
(Nothing says excess like Witch Elves).

Ss'ildra Tor
Harpies
Cold One Knightsx2
2600 points
(Didn't know what to put so I put some stuff I didn't use much elsewhere, it's sort of important that SS'ildra tor sucks so that the AI Morathi can beat them the vast majority of the time in my opinion, but you wanted full suggestions for all.. so OK.)
Last edited by Kami; 25 Nov, 2017 @ 10:51pm
Kami 23 Nov, 2017 @ 9:26am 
Here come the High Elves... fortunately most of these are quite easy, so let's get to it. High Elves were 2900 and 2800 points.

Caledor
Star Dragon
2400 points
(That's it, just the star dragon, it's insanely powerful in it's own right and fits the home of the dragons.)

Tiranoc
Tiranoc Chariotx2
Ithilmar Chariot
2800 points
(Land of the charioteers)

Chrace
White Lions of Chracex3
2400 points
(I mean, what more can I say, it's their home, and there's unfortunately no white lion chariots in the game)

Saphery
Loremaster of Hoeth
Swordmasters of Hoeth
2300 points~
(Home to the Tower of Hoeth)

Ellyrion
Ellyrian Reavers
Silver Helms (Shields)
Ellyrian Reaver Archers
2350 points
(Horse capital of the High Elves)

Yvresse
Lothern Sea Guard (shields)
Great Eaglex2
2350 points
(Dying coastal town, they've got birds, so we'll make em Eagles)

Cothique
Silver Helm (Shields)
Lothern Sea Guard (Shields) x2
2500 points
(Cothique does trade with all the High Elves and their armies can often have units from all over, but considering their position by the sea I felt this made a fair bit of sense.)

Averlorn
Noble
Silver Helms (Shields)
Archers (Light Armour)x2
2825 points~
(missing their signature unit and hero, this will do for now I suppose, added extra archers because Averlorn likes their bows)

Nagarythe
Frost Phoenix
White Lions of Chrace
2450 points
(missing their signature unit too, remade this one to have a Frost Phoenix and Lions of Chrace, the Frost Phoenix sort of matches the dour mood of Nagarythe and the Lions could have arrived from nearby Chrace)
Last edited by Kami; 27 Nov, 2017 @ 5:10am
Kami 23 Nov, 2017 @ 9:42am 
Vampire Counts - Average costs of all 4 vampire factions was 2375, highest was just over 3k, lowest was 1700.

Mousillon
Blood Knights
Necromancer
2600~ (Depending how you value blood knight, highest vanilla VC faction was a little over 3k)
(A land where necromancy is very popular, was hard to choose between Black Knights to reflect the Black Grail Knights, or Blood Knights to reflect the Knights of The Black Grail, Mallobaude's personal body guard of Blood Knights when he ruled over Mousillon

Templehof
I dont know

Necrarch Brotherhood
Necromancer
Black Coach
The Tithe
2150 points~
(more a bunch of vampire scholars of sorts than a real faction in lore, but oh well, this is the best I could think of)

Strygos Empire
Crypt Ghouls
The Feasters in the Dusk
Crypt Horrors
2000 points
(They were actually a human Empire ruled by Styrgoi, but that isn't easily feasible so perhaps a monstrous theme is fitting enough)

Vampire Coast
Nothing particularly fits, maybe a bunch of zombies, I honestly don't know. Hopefully we get a DLC or somebody does a flavorful rework.

Silver Host
Vampire (Death)
Skeleton Warriors
Skeleton Spearmenx2
2200 points~ (can't remember which vampire abilities come stock)
(Neferata's hometown, she had her own skelly warriors and the vampire is to represent a Lahmian, I would also personally suggest changing the Lord to a female if that's not too much bother)
Last edited by Kami; 24 Nov, 2017 @ 8:48pm
Crynsos  [developer] 23 Nov, 2017 @ 9:47am 
Thanks, looking good so far, keep them coming and please try to fill out the points budget as well as possible to keep them all relatively equal, while also unique.
Kami 23 Nov, 2017 @ 9:50am 
Beastmen are tricky, but I'll give it a shot - 2 of 3 Beastmen factions were 2450, third was 2075

Manblight Tribe
Gor Herd
Gor Herd (Shields)
Bestigor Herd
2100 points
(The ex-tribe of Ungrol Four Horns where he got bullied by the big boys)

Blooded-Axe Tribe
Gor Herd
Minotaurs (Great Weapons)
2100 points
(No lore I could find, so I went with a big axe)

Ripper-Horn Tribe
Centigors
Razorgor Chariot
Razorgor Herd
2400 points
(nothing really to go off, but a more mobile army seems interesting)

Shadowgor Tribe
Bray-Shaman (Shadows)
Cygor
2500 points~
(Again, not much to go off of, just went with a shadow Bray Shaman because I'm lazy, and a cygor because they're cool).
Last edited by Kami; 24 Nov, 2017 @ 8:48pm
Kami 23 Nov, 2017 @ 9:50am 
I'll go back and do points now I guess. I tried not to put any too expensive, but some are definitely cheaper, those are mostly intentional.
Last edited by Kami; 23 Nov, 2017 @ 9:51am
Kami 23 Nov, 2017 @ 10:06am 
Wood Elves - Wood Elf costs were 2225 and 2550

Torgovann
Dryad
Tree Kin
Wildwood Rangers
2500 points
(Forest spirits get drawn to the forge, and the rangers have some nicely forged axes)

Wydrioth
Deepwood Scouts (Swiftsilver Shards)
Wardancersx2
2450 points
(Apparently Findol and his crew are very bloodthirsty, they're also deep in the forest, feel the swiftsilver deepwood scouts and wardancers fit nicely.
Last edited by Kami; 24 Nov, 2017 @ 8:51pm
Kami 23 Nov, 2017 @ 10:18am 
Lizardmen - Costs were 3050 and 2900
Itza
Templeguard x2
Skink Cohort x2
3000 points
(I mean it's Itza, greatest among the temple cities, gotta guard that ♥♥♥♥, it's also heavily populated so you always have extra skinks on hand)

Sentinels of Xeti
2x Chameleon Skink
1x Terradon Ridersx2 (Fireleech Bolas)
2700 points
(OK, so in lore the sentinels are just monoliths that are essentially listening posts, so I put some scouty type units)

Teotiqua
Horned Onesx2
2800 points
(No lore, went for something I thought might be fun)

Tlaxtlan
Ancient Stegadon
Skink Priest (Heavens)
2800 points~
(Capital of Astronomy among the Lizardmen, hence the Heaven priest, stegadons just there for bulk)

Xlanhuapec
Bastiladon (Revivification Crystal)x2
Bastiladon (Solar Engine)
3100 points
(City of ancient artifacts left by the old ones, they get some high tech stuff)
Last edited by Kami; 24 Nov, 2017 @ 8:57pm
Kami 23 Nov, 2017 @ 10:34am 
Greenskins

Bloody Spearz
Night Goblin Squig Hoppers
Durkit's Squigs
Squig Herdx2
2400 points
(Night Goblin tribe, leader should be switched to a gobbo actually, ended up making them a squiggy faction.)

Broken Nose
2x Nasty Skulkers
Da Rusty Arrers (RoR)
Hammer of Gork (Goblin Rock Lobber)
2400 points
(Goblin tribe, stole a couple siege engines from the Dwarves, I know you currently have a setup for Broken Nose, but felt like the siege engine bit was a cool bit of flavor)

Red Fangs
Orc Big'Uns
Black Orcs
1950 points
(Think it's important they're still weak so they can be taken out by Grimgor, you disagree so I brought them up in points some more and gave them the Black Orcs because they were a pretty wealthy and powerful clan in lore under Rotgut)

Scabby Eye
Goblin Big Boss
Goblin Wolf Riders
Mogrubb's Mangy Marauders (RoR)
Moon Howlers (RoR)
1900 points~ (really depends on what you value a goblin big boss at, as one of the weaker heroes)
(Goblin Tribe that prefers cavalry, I tried to raise the cost, but goblin cav is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cheap iI had to double up RoR and have a hero just to get this many.)

Skullsmasherz
Orc Big'Uns
Orc Boar Boy Big'uns
Trolls
2550 points
(No lore, but every Big'Un loves to smash skulls - even more than other orcs maybe. And you need your handy dandy trolls for extra skull smashing.)

Teef Snatchaz
Teef Robbers (RoR)
Orc Boar Chariot
Orc Boar Boyz
2300 points
(Went with Teef Robbers because they fit the name, made em a bit of a chariot/heavy cav faction.)

Araknos
The Arachnarok Queen
2400 points
(No lore, but it fits the name)
Last edited by Kami; 25 Nov, 2017 @ 2:38am
Kami 23 Nov, 2017 @ 10:43am 
Norsca (Pre Norscan DLC, and without the split off factions you're planning to add for now)

Skaeling
Can't think of anything.

Varg
Chaos Chariot x2
1800 points
(Surtha Ek memes I suppose)

Aghol
Marauder Horsemasters x2
1500 points
(Several of these tribes in the area are known for their horsemen)

Mung
Marauder Horsemasters x2
1500 points
(Same as above)

Skeggi
Chaos Marauders
Chaos Marauders (Great weapons)
875 points
(Largest human settlement in New World, mostly Norscans, can be made more interesting post patch)
CALiGeR190 23 Nov, 2017 @ 12:25pm 
Barak Varr (Sea Gate)
x2 Rangers
x1 Great Cannon

(Dwarf coastal patrol units, rangers for rapid response to threats/perfect for naval combat and raids, and the cannon for dealing with off-shore threats.)

Karak Azul (Metal Hold 'Iron Peak')
2x Dwarf Warriors w/ Great Weapons
1x Longbeards w/ Great Weapons

(Last of the southern dwarf holds still in contact with Karaz-A-Karak, it keeps itself afloat in the Badlands by the merit of its warriors and the abundance of metals required to produce high-quality weapons. Felt Great Weapons portrayed that best.)

Karak Hirn (Horn Hold)
1x Irondrakes
1x Longbeards

(Most famous for its suborn refusal to submit to direct rule from the high king and the natural phenomenon that causes the wind in the mountains to crate the sound similar to a mighty war-horn - hence the name 'horn hold' - they use fire to control this phenomena native to their mountains, the heat drawing in the sound and creating a fearful effect for opponents.)

Karak Kadrin (Mountain-pass Hold 'Slayer Keep')
2x Slayers
1x Handgunners

(Would just like to push the Slayer theme more, so would swap out the Long beards for another unit of Slayers.)

Karak Norn (Barren-Earth Hold)
2x Miners w/ Blasting Charges
1x Flame Cannon

(A hold that is almost totally devoid of anything more precious than iron and the front-line against the much distrusted Wood Elves. Their entire society is geared towards finding whatever valuables they can in their mountain range and be prepared against an attack from the elves to the south.)

Karak Ziflin (Helm Hold)
1x Longbeards
2x Miners

(Another hold that is very poor in natural resources. They are furiously defensive and greatly distrust/are envious of the Bretonian wealth. They stubbornly refuse to leave, as they are thourgly convinced that their are hidden riches in the mountains, and as such devote much of their resources to strip-mining whatever they can.)

Kraka Drak (Dragon Hold)
(Unless you incorporate Cataph's units I'm happy with their starting units already.)

Zhufbar (Torrent-Gate)
1x Gyrocopter
1x Handgunners

(The capital of the Dwarf Engineers Guild and main centre of industry for the dwarfs, this hold has the highest proportion of engineers in its population of any dwarf hold, and is second only to Karaz-A-Karak for its fleet of gyrocopters.)

Greybeard's propectors
1x Miners w/Blasting Charges
2x Miners

(The Greybeards Mining guild's, relatively young dwarves heralding from the Grey Mountains - the place of Karak Norn and Karak Ziflin - are a deeply dissatisfied bunch. Unhappy with the sparse resources of their homeland, they settle far-away mountains in hopes of turning a profit, braving whatever dangers they may face along the way.)

Karak Zorn (Plateau Hold 'City of Gold')
1x Miners w/Blasting Charges
1x Ironbreakers

(The legendary most Southern Hold in the Dwarven Empire, its wealth could be matched by no other, it having gold in particular in vast abundance hence the name 'City of Gold' in many dwarven legends. It has not had direct contact with the wider Karaz Ankor and Karaz-A-Karak for thousands by this point, separated by the coming of Chaos and many generations of fighting with the greenskins in the Badlands, many now believing the Karak to be the stuff of myth. But the legend survives stubbornly, now alone in the south, through its incredible wealth and the martial skill of the hold's warriors.

Karak Dank (Wet Hold)
1x Ranger
2x Miners

(There is no lore for this one, but I assume its a dwarf mining expedition looking to expand the dwarf realms westward, so scouting and mining units to start.)
Last edited by CALiGeR190; 23 Nov, 2017 @ 12:34pm
Parte 23 Nov, 2017 @ 12:27pm 
If I remember well Clan Karond have a unique buildings that buffs hydras so could be intersting give this unit to them
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