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Total War: WARHAMMER II >  Workshop > HEU3BECTEH's Workshop > Specialized Combat > Discussions
Specialized Combat
Description Discussions3 Comments123 Change Notes
HEU3BECTEH  [developer] 11 Oct, 2017 @ 10:08am
Specialized Combat - Discussion
In this mod I have tried to enhance units special traits, making the battle flow more dependant on tactical advantages, and probably resulting in slightly faster battle pace.

With this mod...
• Reckless cavalry frontal charges will stop sending spearmen flying. Charges from the rear will give them even more painful experience though.
• Firearms will stop being crossbows with better armor piercing. They will sweep away enemy squads with one volley. It will take much longer time to reload though. They will require line of sight to fire.
• That one crippled dwarf on the edge of the map, lone survivor of his squad, will not regain his will to fight if their leader is long dead.
• Anti-large units will hit cavalry and large beasts harder. They will go easier on infantry though. Anti-infantry units will be more anti-infantry too.
• Melee attack and defence ratio will have a little more influence on hit chance.
• On siege battles it will take more time to climb walls using miracle-spawn ladders, so you will want to use some siege vehicles. Fort towers will hit harder, but will not reach that far.

That mod was created to change the things I have found confusing, hopefully it can be usefull for someone else too.
Technical details: In table '_kv_rules' value 'bracing_calibration_ranks' has been changed from '7' to '6', 'bracing_calibration_ranks_multiplier', 'bracing_charge_reflector_bonus' and 'bracing_max_multiplier_clamp' has been doubled, 'bracing_attack_angle' has been changed from '80' to '100'. In table '_kv_rules' value 'collision_damage_normaliser' has been changed from '0.7' to '1', 'collision_damage_modifier' has been halved, 'collision_damage_maximum' has been doubled, 'collision_damage_default' has been halved. In table '_kv_rules' value 'refusal_chance_vs_charge_reflectors' has been changed from '0' to '0.3'. In table 'projectiles' non-spell non-tower non-artillery_flammable musket 'damage', 'ap_damage', 'base_reload_time' has been tripled. In table 'land_units' non-spell non-tower musket 'primary_ammo' has been halved. In table '_kv_rules' value 'missile_ignore_own_unit_for_friendly_fire' has been changed from '1' to '0', 'projectile_friendly_fire_man_radius_coefficient' and 'projectile_friendly_fire_man_height_coefficient' has been changed to '1'. In table '_kv_morale' value 'only_units_with_living_commanding_general_may_enter_non_shattered_rout_enabled' has been changed from '0' to '1', 'post_rally_no_rout_timer' has been halved. In table 'melee_weapons' for anti-large and anti-infantry units values 'ap_damage' and 'damage' has been decreased on 10%, values 'bonus_v_large' or 'bonus_v_infantry' has been increased on 20% * ( ap_damage + (damage * MDR) ), where mean damage reduction (MDR) has been set to 0.5. Test results show that mean armor (~65, mean armor was calculated using tables 'land_units' and 'unit_armour_types') reduces damage approximately on 50% average. In table '_kv_rules' value 'melee_hit_chance_max' has been changed from '90' to '97', 'melee_hit_chance_min' has been changed from '8' to '3', 'melee_hit_chance_normalisation_coefficient' has been changed from '1' to '1.5'. In table 'battlefield_buildings' fort_tower and fort_wall 'hit_points' has been halved. In table '_kv_rules' values 'climbing_ladder_speed_modifier' and 'climbing_walls_speed_modifier' has been halved. In table 'projectiles' for towers value 'effective_range' has been halved, 'burst_size' has been doubled. In table '_kv_key_buildings' value 'fort_tower_fire_arc' has been doubled.
Best regards.
Last edited by HEU3BECTEH; 10 Dec, 2017 @ 10:17am
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Showing 1-15 of 19 comments
Vagabond™ 24 Nov, 2017 @ 2:21am 
Tested your mod out and it's certainly an improvement. Might I suggest impementing:

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1159266136
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1203815856

They aren't compatible with your mod, and I feel they are a useful addition for the AI in regards to fighting back since they don't stretch their lines out very much, even when using your other mod (which I think you should just implement into this one for simplicities sake).

With that said, while testing I did notice lest break through of cavalry through antilarge unit lines, which is nice, but they still aren't being punished very much - anti large still isn't very anti large.

This is def. a cool concept though!. Rated Up, and favorited. I'll keep an eye out for updates to see what becomes of it!
#1
HEU3BECTEH  [developer] 24 Nov, 2017 @ 9:06am 
Thank you for the feedback!

I will check why these mods are not compatible.
I want to update the mod too, maybe even on this sunday.

Long Line mod is very highly compatible with other mods. And there is a chance that someone would like to install only one of the mods, and will not like to install them both. In this regard the mods are better being separate.

If 300$ spearmen unit will obliterate 1200$ cavarly unit with ease, it will change the balance too much. I have tried to fix strange things without breaking anything. The cavarly is not very severly punished for frontal charge, but anti-large unit does not suffer from it much, and the battle without charge bonus is definitely in favor of anti-large units. Without this mod even cheapest cavarly often could just hit defending spearmen in front, fall back, hit again and win like that. Now it will have to maneuver and avoid being reckless.

Best regards.
#2
HEU3BECTEH  [developer] 26 Nov, 2017 @ 12:40am 
Originally posted by SER | Vagabond (Recruiting):
Might I suggest impementing:

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1159266136
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1203815856

They aren't compatible with your mod, and I feel they are a useful addition for the AI in regards to fighting back since they don't stretch their lines out very much, even when using your other mod (which I think you should just implement into this one for simplicities sake).
These mods worked fine for me combined with Specialized Combat. They change 'battle_entities' table unaffected by this mod, there should be no reason for uncompatibility...
#3
Markliuz Da Jesterly 24 Oct, 2018 @ 11:37pm 
I dont think it was a good idea to lower the climbing speed when you play on ultra army sizes, cause my gawd does it take ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ for units with large numbers in em to climb ladders. it also removes the ability to be sneaky with ladders, which removes tactical options during siege battles. example of this, playing skaven and using deathrunners to flank took so long the battle was already over and they were still climbing! id very much like this feature to be removed cause it really wasnt needed and just frustratingly unecessary, or if you can make a version that doesnt slow ladder climbing speed that would be really nice. :sadelf:

Also another thing which is about tower damage, tier 4 towers are almost impossible to attack for the AI. the AI gets absolutely decimated by tier 4 towers not even the siege towers can survive the bombardment, like the AI just gets destroyed having never ever touched the walls. why i say almost is cause of the fact that you as a player can atleast destroy the tier 4 towers with artillery, too bad i cant say the same for the AI. so just maybe, maybe you want to either tone down the tier 4 tower damage to a reasonable level or give siege towers much more health to atleast survive the bombardment run? im not sure which could be better or even abit of both might make it better? as this would only be to help the AI remain a threat/challenge to deal with even during siege battles.

I hope this feedback will be helpful. :steamhappy:
#4
HEU3BECTEH  [developer] 25 Oct, 2018 @ 1:31am 
Originally posted by Markliuz Da Jesterly:
I dont think it was a good idea to lower the climbing speed when you play on ultra army sizes, cause my gawd does it take ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ for units with large numbers in em to climb ladders. it also removes the ability to be sneaky with ladders, which removes tactical options during siege battles. example of this, playing skaven and using deathrunners to flank took so long the battle was already over and they were still climbing! id very much like this feature to be removed cause it really wasnt needed and just frustratingly unecessary, or if you can make a version that doesnt slow ladder climbing speed that would be really nice. :sadelf:

Also another thing which is about tower damage, tier 4 towers are almost impossible to attack for the AI. the AI gets absolutely decimated by tier 4 towers not even the siege towers can survive the bombardment, like the AI just gets destroyed having never ever touched the walls. why i say almost is cause of the fact that you as a player can atleast destroy the tier 4 towers with artillery, too bad i cant say the same for the AI. so just maybe, maybe you want to either tone down the tier 4 tower damage to a reasonable level or give siege towers much more health to atleast survive the bombardment run? im not sure which could be better or even abit of both might make it better? as this would only be to help the AI remain a threat/challenge to deal with even during siege battles.

I hope this feedback will be helpful. :steamhappy:
Thank you for the feedback!

I did these changes because it seemed stupid to me that you need to wait one turn before attacking the walls to have siege vehicles or to have artillery, while they are not needed at all. It did not matter much on which side of the wall you are. Towers could reach you everywhere, while doing not much damage. That made artillery even more useless. So I have tried to make it so that siege vehicles and artillery are really needed.
And I did not really mind AI being disadvantaged, as it is stupid and exploitable enough already. And it NAEVER EVER attacked one of my upgraded wall cities in campaign... AI have always waited until the very end without storming. Maybe something changed in AI behavior since then...
I believe that tier 4 towers need to be a treat, they are not easy to make. And they can be an interesting challenge to a player.

You can easily modify 'speccombat.pack' in "...Steam\steamapps\common\Total War WARHAMMER\data" yourself, by the way. You will just need Pack File Manager. I can explain which variables you will need to change. They are already listed in the mod's description though.

Best regards.
#5
Markliuz Da Jesterly 25 Oct, 2018 @ 1:49am 
But is it really needed when playing with ultra sized armies though? cause it still takes time for em to climb those ladders as siege engines are still faster on ultra, it just feels so unecessary. its okay if the army size is lower but on ultra, not so much. id love if you could change that small detail, put it back to normal or just have a version of the mod without the slow climbing just for ultra armies sake?

I dont think it is an interesting challenge for a player to build a couple of artillery to shoot down towers, so agree to disagree here.

Problem though i play with a co-op partner and my co-op partner isnt willing to mess with modding tools like i am, besides its only a small request the slow climbing speed which i hope is easy to undo. :steamhappy:
Last edited by Markliuz Da Jesterly; 25 Oct, 2018 @ 1:55am
#6
HEU3BECTEH  [developer] 26 Oct, 2018 @ 12:32am 
Here you go, version with removed changes to climbing ladders and >2 tier towers:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gei7tcdy0sfl8vh/speccombat_20171011_ladders_rule.pack
#7
Markliuz Da Jesterly 26 Oct, 2018 @ 9:52am 
Originally posted by HEU3BECTEH(RUS):
Here you go, version with removed changes to climbing ladders and >2 tier towers:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gei7tcdy0sfl8vh/speccombat_20171011_ladders_rule.pack

Not through steam workshop?
#8
HEU3BECTEH  [developer] 26 Oct, 2018 @ 10:26am 
Originally posted by Markliuz Da Jesterly:
Originally posted by HEU3BECTEH(RUS):
Here you go, version with removed changes to climbing ladders and >2 tier towers:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gei7tcdy0sfl8vh/speccombat_20171011_ladders_rule.pack

Not through steam workshop?
I am fine with you uploading it to the Workshop to share with your friend. It is easier to just put it in the "data" folder though...
#9
Markliuz Da Jesterly 26 Oct, 2018 @ 3:53pm 
Originally posted by HEU3BECTEH(RUS):
Originally posted by Markliuz Da Jesterly:

Not through steam workshop?
I am fine with you uploading it to the Workshop to share with your friend. It is easier to just put it in the "data" folder though...

I know, but my buddy is difficult like that. but alright, whenever i get time for it, ill do it. as ill credit ya and such.
#10
Markliuz Da Jesterly 30 Oct, 2018 @ 12:03am 
Okay, nevermind. it just crashes sadly. i dont know whats wrong, or what to do to make it work.
Last edited by Markliuz Da Jesterly; 30 Oct, 2018 @ 12:30am
#11
HEU3BECTEH  [developer] 30 Oct, 2018 @ 8:37am 
Originally posted by Markliuz Da Jesterly:
Okay, nevermind. it just crashes sadly. i dont know whats wrong, or what to do to make it work.
Maybe that one will work better:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m3tbjkyp5ulw41u/speccombat_20171011_ladders_rule.pack
I have no game installed to test it. That one is modified with older version of PackFileManager.
#12
Markliuz Da Jesterly 30 Oct, 2018 @ 9:30am 
Originally posted by HEU3BECTEH(RUS):
Originally posted by Markliuz Da Jesterly:
Okay, nevermind. it just crashes sadly. i dont know whats wrong, or what to do to make it work.
Maybe that one will work better:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m3tbjkyp5ulw41u/speccombat_20171011_ladders_rule.pack
I have no game installed to test it. That one is modified with older version of PackFileManager.

Ugh, it still crashes. idk whats wrong.
Last edited by Markliuz Da Jesterly; 30 Oct, 2018 @ 9:47am
#13
HEU3BECTEH  [developer] 30 Oct, 2018 @ 11:47am 
Ok... That was for TWW1, my bad X)
Here is TWW2 version:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/45uaq6vvr7g3ayq/speccombat_20180604_ladders_rule.pack
#14
Markliuz Da Jesterly 31 Oct, 2018 @ 7:29am 
Originally posted by HEU3BECTEH(RUS):
Ok... That was for TWW1, my bad X)
Here is TWW2 version:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/45uaq6vvr7g3ayq/speccombat_20180604_ladders_rule.pack

Thats very funny actually. but to nobodys surprise, it works now. xD
Last edited by Markliuz Da Jesterly; 31 Oct, 2018 @ 8:15am
#15
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