Hello, Im a big enjoyer of your work and I think you're the best modder that fits perfectly the thematic of darkest dungeon with his characters

I don't use all your characters as not all fit with the gameplay style I want - but I do use 4 of them - Thrall , Lamia , Falconer and Seraph

I love these 4 characters for how sad , dark and pathetic, but strong they can be and the big drawbacks they have to using them, just like all other Darkest Dungeon heroes
The Dark thematic shines really well with them

Which brings me to my point: I do not like this new Thrall Update, both visually and gameplay-wise

There are some good changes, but I personally don't like most of the update and I will explain why to everything below:

1 - Visual - From what I always felt, the Thrall was suppose to be a big , dumb , slow Brute that only knows to fight using pure raw strength and has very little synergy with the others

But this new update has added all these bells and whistles to make him more consistent with the idea of a Battle Brute, by updating the armor and spikes on every part of his armor

Now he is bigger and takes more space as a character and feels a lot out of place of the rest of the characters, while also feeling more professional, creating a contrast with what he was suppose to be in the first place

This alone already makes me want to remove him as a character

2 - Gameplay - His skills used to be very brutish, with a lot of risks and weird interactions attached to them, something that perfectly fits a dumb Brute because of his inability to work well with others

The stress when he is hit should not have been removed, because it fit perfectly with an anger-filled brute not wanting to be hit

The new 25% Stress unless Afflicted is a good addition, but now that is an incentive to have to 100+ stress him which is unique but a hassle to play around, when all we want is to ''hulk smash'' using his brutish strength

- Maim - I think removing the knockback makes his punches less cool and meaningful, again professionalizing his kit

- Gore - This skill had a really good punishment for him hitting his head towards the enemy, making sense it would reduce his stun res, so removing it makes no sense and removes an important drawback and thematic relevancy to him being brutishly powerful

- Indomitable - This one is really good !!! I think this is the best update change, because the death blow res he got before was very questionable and boring - and now you have to play this or risk him getting super stressed
But it makes no sense with the ''unless afflicted'', you want him to get stressed, but you have a heal ability preventing the stressing - which again - I think makes him complex for no reason

- Menace - I personally think the previous name was cooler lol, but overall this is a good change, which I think fits great

- Mayhem - I do not like that this is a free ability, with a condition that goes against him de-stressing and healing with Indomitable. As bad as Savagery was before, it perfectly fit this brute for his lack of adaptation to the team. While this new ability gives him a game plan which is a hassle to play around

- Trample - The entire point of this ability was (1) to save him from rank 4 if he ever was in there and (2) to start the fight with some kind of high speed item (like Quick Draw Charm) and disrupt the enemies
The ability has very low accuracy so it was always a fun risk to play with
Now it has been nerfed down into the ground removing its moving ability, making me pretty much never want to run this ability because it has become extremely niche pretty much only for (1) usage

- Tremors - Still a great ability, It fits like a glove and I love it

I don't have much to discuss the camp abilities, I think they are pretty fair and balanced and fit him well, so those are still ok

3 - Animations - Despite the animations looking ''better'', I liked the simplicity of the previous ones more
So this is a highly subjective point, but so is my entire discussion really


But yeah, this is the point im making, a lot of his untouched abilites remain perfect and fit his role as a Brute who only punches without thinking
And he still is a brute, but now he has a more professional arsenal for more consistent gameplay - which in my opinion ruins the idea of a un-adaptable meaty puncher

I loved his previous risk and reward system
Just like how if the leper has an ability to move forward it would ruin the risk and reward system of the Leper

I dislike this new Thrall and Im not even sure if i can run the previous version back, which saddens me
Do tell me if there is a way to play the previous Thrall, who I love his imperfections , basic look and animations !

This new version may theoretically be better and many people might like it
But I feel detached from it and even if its a better version of what you imagined the Thrall to be, It's not the Thrall I looked up to and loved to play

Hope you have an amazing day, Marvin, you've made amazing characters and that's why I was passionate to write all of this.
Good Luck on your future characters ♥

Originally posted by Zaikozila:

Hello, Im a big enjoyer of your work and I think you're the best modder that fits perfectly the thematic of darkest dungeon with his characters

I don't use all your characters as not all fit with the gameplay style I want - but I do use 4 of them - Thrall , Lamia , Falconer and Seraph

I love these 4 characters for how sad , dark and pathetic, but strong they can be and the big drawbacks they have to using them, just like all other Darkest Dungeon heroes
The Dark thematic shines really well with them

Which brings me to my point: I do not like this new Thrall Update, both visually and gameplay-wise

There are some good changes, but I personally don't like most of the update and I will explain why to everything below:

1 - Visual - From what I always felt, the Thrall was suppose to be a big , dumb , slow Brute that only knows to fight using pure raw strength and has very little synergy with the others

But this new update has added all these bells and whistles to make him more consistent with the idea of a Battle Brute, by updating the armor and spikes on every part of his armor

Now he is bigger and takes more space as a character and feels a lot out of place of the rest of the characters, while also feeling more professional, creating a contrast with what he was suppose to be in the first place

This alone already makes me want to remove him as a character

2 - Gameplay - His skills used to be very brutish, with a lot of risks and weird interactions attached to them, something that perfectly fits a dumb Brute because of his inability to work well with others

The stress when he is hit should not have been removed, because it fit perfectly with an anger-filled brute not wanting to be hit

The new 25% Stress unless Afflicted is a good addition, but now that is an incentive to have to 100+ stress him which is unique but a hassle to play around, when all we want is to ''hulk smash'' using his brutish strength

- Maim - I think removing the knockback makes his punches less cool and meaningful, again professionalizing his kit

- Gore - This skill had a really good punishment for him hitting his head towards the enemy, making sense it would reduce his stun res, so removing it makes no sense and removes an important drawback and thematic relevancy to him being brutishly powerful

- Indomitable - This one is really good !!! I think this is the best update change, because the death blow res he got before was very questionable and boring - and now you have to play this or risk him getting super stressed
But it makes no sense with the ''unless afflicted'', you want him to get stressed, but you have a heal ability preventing the stressing - which again - I think makes him complex for no reason

- Menace - I personally think the previous name was cooler lol, but overall this is a good change, which I think fits great

- Mayhem - I do not like that this is a free ability, with a condition that goes against him de-stressing and healing with Indomitable. As bad as Savagery was before, it perfectly fit this brute for his lack of adaptation to the team. While this new ability gives him a game plan which is a hassle to play around

- Trample - The entire point of this ability was (1) to save him from rank 4 if he ever was in there and (2) to start the fight with some kind of high speed item (like Quick Draw Charm) and disrupt the enemies
The ability has very low accuracy so it was always a fun risk to play with
Now it has been nerfed down into the ground removing its moving ability, making me pretty much never want to run this ability because it has become extremely niche pretty much only for (1) usage

- Tremors - Still a great ability, It fits like a glove and I love it

I don't have much to discuss the camp abilities, I think they are pretty fair and balanced and fit him well, so those are still ok

3 - Animations - Despite the animations looking ''better'', I liked the simplicity of the previous ones more
So this is a highly subjective point, but so is my entire discussion really


But yeah, this is the point im making, a lot of his untouched abilites remain perfect and fit his role as a Brute who only punches without thinking
And he still is a brute, but now he has a more professional arsenal for more consistent gameplay - which in my opinion ruins the idea of a un-adaptable meaty puncher

I loved his previous risk and reward system
Just like how if the leper has an ability to move forward it would ruin the risk and reward system of the Leper

I dislike this new Thrall and Im not even sure if i can run the previous version back, which saddens me
Do tell me if there is a way to play the previous Thrall, who I love his imperfections , basic look and animations !

This new version may theoretically be better and many people might like it
But I feel detached from it and even if its a better version of what you imagined the Thrall to be, It's not the Thrall I looked up to and loved to play

Hope you have an amazing day, Marvin, you've made amazing characters and that's why I was passionate to write all of this.
Good Luck on your future characters ♥

Thanks for the feedback! I'm sorry to hear that you don't like new Thrall as much. He did change alot from his previous iteration so I can understand. The old Thrall is playable via this legacy mod, just replace the new Thrall with this and you should be good to go! https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3138217821

"Redux" refers to stuff from this version of Thrall.

i like the concept of Redux Maim. it feels in-character for Thrall to literally punch down on people smaller than him, and punching downwards explains why it doesn't move backwards anymore. no complaints.

mechanically, Redux Gore is perfect. the visual effects fall flat however. if i didn't already know it was meant to be a headbutt, i wouldn't understand what Thrall is meant to be doing when he launches the move. it kind of looks like he's trying to stab the enemy with the spikes on his back. i think this could be fixed by adding a smear line on Thrall's helmet as part of the effects to sell the idea of it being a headbutt.

Redux Indomitable clearing debuffs is a very clever idea and a good way to buff what was a fairly weak move on Legacy Thrall. no complaints.

Menace only being usable from rank 1 fits perfectly for Thrall's braindead aggression theme. however, the riposte attack's sprite could use some work. while the riposte being the same kind of punch as Legacy Maim is clever, the pose is very stiff, and at normal gameplay speed it looks like Thrall is just posing instead of punching. i would suggest making the chains on his gauntlets straighter to indicate they're flying back with more force and raising the arm Thrall's not punching with to sell the move better.

Cataclysm is hilarious, but feels really confused mechanically. every other part of Thrall's kit encourages you to be in the front ranks brainlessly swinging. while i understand why Savagery was removed, i don't think this is a good replacement. unfortunately i'm not sure how to suggest changes without suggesting you gut or replace the move completely like you've already done, and i want to keep Thrall just hurling a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ brick at enemies as a move in some way.

Redux Trample still does what it's meant to do without issue. no complaints.

Tremors being renamed to Tremor makes the move sound more powerful and having unique art for the stomp feels good. no complaints.

you did well.

alright, i don't have as much to say as other people so i'm just gonna vent my one greivance

backline thrall sucks, i understand why you made it, but it's not very good, cataclysm has terrible accuracy and only getting to use it twice makes it very limited, a skill you can only use like, twice should not have a 70% accuracy mod because you can lose one or both charges with a miss, aside from that the thrall has only 2 other skills he can use from the back, so that 4th skill slot just collects dust since you can only use indomitable cataclysm and tremor, so unless you put him all the way in position 4 so he can use trample you might as well not even have 4 skills

i think if you are gonna have backline thrall then it needs some love marv

Cataclysm feels like cheating - a leper with a high dmg backline attack is OP, im consistently throwing 20+ dmg rocks at backliners. Perhaps make it -50% dmg or random target 3/4.

Meanwhile Tremors should be more consistent, it's like a shockwave so perhaps make it stun close enemies like yawp?