General balance feedback...... Artillery is very strong against standing infantry (particulary defensive dwarf playstyle).

Now I can understand that this may be by design for the most part, but it makes defensive-oriented infantry such as dwarf warriors/longbeards etc very easy to kill. Such units are placed at bottlenecks in a way to let the enemy come to them.

Currently a single volley from a Orc doom diver unit, reduces a dwarf warrior unit health to half, 2 volleys and the unit is like below 25% health and ready to rout. Dwarfs simply cant sit and play defensive versus anything now that has artillery. Add to that the fact that dwarf artillery now has shorter range than a bunch of other civ's artillery units, so they cant even shoot back from their formation.

I dont have a easy solution in mind for this. Maybe increasing the range of dwarf artillery to be more than others civs, so that at least they can shoot back and force the enemy to advance.

Currently a single Doom-diver forces the dwarf army to charge in (instead of the other way around, orcs charging into a standing dwarf army, the usual norm) or else get demolished within a few volleys.

@solarus Thanks for the feedback, I'll take a look at the Doom Diver, it might be a bit too strong. I seem to remember it being very effective in vanilla too.

I was thinking about the above situation... given the way things work, It seems like whoever has better artillery forces the other army to charge into them.

So if defensive Dwarf playstyle is to be a thing, they would need to have better ranged artillery than other civs.

In my current dwarf campaign, at the battle of thundering falls, I had to charge my entire dwarf army forward, otherwise that single doom-diver unit would have wrecked my entire army :P

Hi, first up, this is an utterly fantastic mod!

However i feel the skaven snare net ability is horribly rife for abuse as the constant effect immobilise entire swathes of the opposing force if they get to close.

If I may add my own opinion, maybe a hefty speed and slight melee de-buff would suit the ability better; but right now it makes taking on a skaven force with even one unit of gutter runners a tedious hassle.

@bsu412, Thanks for the feedback, I will adjust it in next patch.

Not too far in but holy hell do wood elves seem OP. I kind of get what you were going for with the physical resist but honestly their hp need to be cut by a 1/3rd minimum. Orion is also pretty meh due to lacking this phy res. He does make up for it with abilities though.

It might be more balanced if there are now magic attack heavy armies which would eat through the elves quick. Not that far yet.

@Ninja of the Bedroom Yeah I went a bit overboard with updating them, I have made some nerfs in the latest patch to make them a bit more manageable.

@LuckySpade
Several points:
-Artillery should have varied accuracy tiers. For instance Orc artillery should be extremelly inaccurate, while having a good "punch" if it actually hits something. Crews are gobbo's with little to no training.

On the other hand Dwarfs / Humans should have a very balanced artillery (dwarfs being most likely The most accurate / deadliest in those terms ) as crews actually get proper training.

-Dwarf artillery should have higher range, achievable perhaps through building upgrades / technlogy? Mainly to counter other factions, Dwarfs in particular are a defensive faction and should provoke others to come at them, not the other way around.

-Gyrpcopters / Gyrobomber should have higher armor.

-numbers of Low tier Greenskins / Undead / Skaven / Lizardmen / Chaos units should have higher numbers per unit. (300+ imo)

-Increase building build times. Imo "Old School Campaign" had it just right.

- Increase Technology research times

-Reduce replenishment rates.

-Decrease settlement growth rate

For most part, the morale system has been greatly improved since LBO. I remember having to fight the very last units lots of battles back then, when their defeat was 100% certain... However, it still gets a bit tedious that when the power/victory bar is 95% yellow but the enemey won't completely rout because one or two units who are routing, but are not shattered are still roaming around, and you have to spend tedious amounts of time to run near enough to each of these just to "finish" an already finished battle. This is especially annyoing when fighting defensively in very large siege maps (using the custom maps mod) - the Naggarond map is huge and at the end of a defensive siege, I need to spend additional 4-5 minutes just running down what should have been already defeated units.

The upkeep is done very well. I like units being expensive so that you have to carefully consider just which units you want to bring. Unit caps for everyone I can see becoming a staple for all the WH2 overhauls.

Originally posted by Dragon Pope:

For most part, the morale system has been greatly improved since LBO. I remember having to fight the very last units lots of battles back then, when their defeat was 100% certain... However, it still gets a bit tedious that when the power/victory bar is 95% yellow but the enemey won't completely rout because one or two units who are routing, but are not shattered are still roaming around, and you have to spend tedious amounts of time to run near enough to each of these just to "finish" an already finished battle. This is especially annyoing when fighting defensively in very large siege maps (using the custom maps mod) - the Naggarond map is huge and at the end of a defensive siege, I need to spend additional 4-5 minutes just running down what should have been already defeated units.

The upkeep is done very well. I like units being expensive so that you have to carefully consider just which units you want to bring. Unit caps for everyone I can see becoming a staple for all the WH2 overhauls.

Partially agree as that is how actual battle go, some units will never know what actually happens on the other side of battlefield and will continue to fight up until more enemy units re-appear.

Besides it works both ways, you dont always win either and sometimes that 2-3 of your units that refuse to rout can save the whole battle for you as they are literally an expendable "cannon fooder" by that point.

Regarding your 4-5 mins point, you can always turn on fast speed.

Really interesting idea; however, at this point, the rosters are very unbalanced in terms of armor, speed, weapon strength, upkeep, etc. Here are some examples:
1) Shields not affecting Charge bonus and Speed (logically, should decrease both). Examples, WE: Ethernal Guard, WE: Wild Riders, HE: Silver Helms, B: Mounted Yeomen,
2) Armor not affecting Charge bonus (increase) and Speed (decrease) inside or among rosters. Example, all Bretonian Knight Roster have the same speed; Half-naked 40 Armored WE: Wild Riders have the same speed as HE: Silver Helms.
3) Vanguard Deployment is useless with low speed, because you will be kited and shot. Examples,
B: Mounted Yeoman Archers with VangDepl and speed 95 can easily wreck WE: Wild Riders,
The same goes with HE: Ellyrian Reaver Archers;
Tier 5 WE: Sister’s of Thorn with VangDepl, 15 armor and range 100 are kitable by most core(!) missile cavalry unit [yes, magic, but 1/1 loose to core units)

I used a 50 percent upkeep reduction mod for the player only on Teclis and it made this mod more playable for me. I think it makes it impossilbe to play that particular faction without it, it slows the game to a crawl and makes Teclis extremely weak and vulnerable considering the threats. He starts with on city, the tower right off the Vampire Coast.

@Buzzerker - the 50% upkeep mod is making the game easier because it's making breaking part of the mod. Namely, it's screwing up unit sizes and unit mass which really screws with infantry. If you are struggling with Teclis, and seemingly only Teclis, who has a hard start, why don't you try Tyrion with an easy start? You can also turn the difficulty down a notch. I just got to turn 35 with Teclis and I'm having no issues like you describe and I'm not a crazy good player or anything. It sounds like you're struggling because the campaign is harder now and you're choosing one of the more difficult start points. Try Tyrion, bet you kick ass.

Originally posted by cryohellinc:

@LuckySpade
Several points:
-Artillery should have varied accuracy tiers. For instance Orc artillery should be extremelly inaccurate, while having a good "punch" if it actually hits something. Crews are gobbo's with little to no training.

On the other hand Dwarfs / Humans should have a very balanced artillery (dwarfs being most likely The most accurate / deadliest in those terms ) as crews actually get proper training.

-Dwarf artillery should have higher range, achievable perhaps through building upgrades / technlogy? Mainly to counter other factions, Dwarfs in particular are a defensive faction and should provoke others to come at them, not the other way around.

-Gyrpcopters / Gyrobomber should have higher armor.

-numbers of Low tier Greenskins / Undead / Skaven / Lizardmen / Chaos units should have higher numbers per unit. (300+ imo)

-Increase building build times. Imo "Old School Campaign" had it just right.

- Increase Technology research times

-Reduce replenishment rates.

-Decrease settlement growth rate

I cannot agree more with the Dwarf artillery comments above :). This is also how the artillery was balanced in vanilla, Dwarfs had the most accurate and longest range artillery to support their defensive playstyle, followed by Humans and then other factions. They could always use their superior artillery to force other factions to advance, which is currently not the case in C&C.

General feedback from my Dwarf Campaign (currently around turn 70).... very hard campaign difficulty, normal battle difficulty.

Initial difficulty is way harder than vanilla, and I'm loving it. After the first 5 turns or so (i had silver road province at the time and was trying my best to hold on to it). I was constantly harassed by full stack armies of Bloody spears, Greenskins and the third orc faction next to Barak Var. These full stacks were of 'core' units mostly. At about turn 15 or so I had orc 2 armies standing next to Karaz a Karak, and two full stack armies to the right bottom of the province, making me constantly ping pong between the minor settlements to just barely manage to defend them. I had about 3/4th of a stack at this time as my main army.

After a few turns of defending like crazy and building up, the orcs armies started coming in with Waagh armies. Now the difference was that Waagh armies have regular and ROR units in them as well, not just core units, which made defending my minor settlements much harder. This made defending against 3-4 armies, of which at any time I see 75% have a waagh army with them, much more difficult.

At around turn 25-30 greenskins confederated their minor factions, and had 4 full stack armies, with half restricted units and half core units, and with 3 of them having Waaghs attached with them. Using these they managed to constantly be fighting me, my minor faction dwarf allies, and other enemies (Border princes). The dwarf minor factions got crushed very easily, Barak Var died at around turn 35-40, Karak Azul at turn 60 and the dwarf minor faction north is dead to vampires as of turn 70.

Greenskins used 1-2 armies (with waaghs) to attack the minor factions, and the other 1-2 to keep me busy all the time. In my opinion this is a bit too much of overwhelming force to have. Either dwarf factions need a buff, or greenskins need a nerf, or a bit of both.

As of around turn 70, I hold 8 territories, greenskins hold 17, and all their armies now contain top tier units (and waagh's are always attached), while i have just gotten my first 2 Ironbreakers in my main army, and have half a stack secondary army. Its quite possible that they will soon manage to brute force overwhelm me, we'll see.

The reason I think there may be a balance adjustment needed is the following...
1) While the AI should have buffs to be competitive with the player (and to be quite honest i'm loving the constant "high difficulty" feeling), there is no reason that the AI controlled Dwarf minor factions should be so easily steamrolled over by the greenskins faction. Also the Dwarf minor faction to the north died easily to vampires. I've played multiple Dwarf campaigns in vanilla and SFO, but i've never seen Karak Azul (the south dwarf faction) get steamrolled so easily.
2) Greenskin Waaghs shouldn't be so easy to get. Given the number of armies that greenskins have running around, each of them having their own Waagh army, and that too with non-core and ROR units, is quite overwhelming. Maybe Waaghs should only have core units, or at least not have ROR units in them?