Crusader Kings II

Crusader Kings II

Crusader Mounts
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
Purplepineapple  [developer] 19 Jul, 2018 @ 8:22am
Balance and Suggestions
I welcome all opinions.
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Showing 1-15 of 31 comments
Jaehaerys 21 Jul, 2018 @ 3:42am 
It'd be cool if you could name your mounts the way you name your children. I don't know if that's possible with artifacts, though.
Purplepineapple  [developer] 21 Jul, 2018 @ 3:53am 
Originally posted by Jaehaerys:
It'd be cool if you could name your mounts the way you name your children. I don't know if that's possible with artifacts, though.
It's not in that way. AGOT had a roundabout way of doing it but that requires the Customizer DLC. I wouldn't really add that though, since that would mess up the naming prefixes and make it harder for the player to figure out which mount is what type, especially because of the lack of pictures atm.
IIRanulph 22 Jul, 2018 @ 1:07am 
Is there a possibility to equip multiple mountequipments at the same time? As right now its only a horse, horse armor and 1 equipmentslot (banner, lance, etc.) And if one looks back in time or at any random old medieval movies. The horse equipment for example doesnt need to be 4 slots, but say 2 or 3 even.
For example: You have the list: Horse (Destrier, Charger), Armor (ceremonial or practical), saddle, caparisons and lance (lance could be more of a weaponslot havent checked yet.)
Purplepineapple  [developer] 22 Jul, 2018 @ 1:44am 
Originally posted by IIRanulph:
Is there a possibility to equip multiple mountequipments at the same time? As right now its only a horse, horse armor and 1 equipmentslot (banner, lance, etc.) And if one looks back in time or at any random old medieval movies. The horse equipment for example doesnt need to be 4 slots, but say 2 or 3 even.
For example: You have the list: Horse (Destrier, Charger), Armor (ceremonial or practical), saddle, caparisons and lance (lance could be more of a weaponslot havent checked yet.)
Once I add more equipment probably yes. Right now theres only 5 pieces of equipment excluding armor. That's too low to justify having multiple equipped.
IIRanulph 23 Jul, 2018 @ 6:51am 
Ive got an idea on the horse armors, as right now its 3 lvl's. lvl 1: Horse Armor, lvl 3: durable Horse Armor and lvl 5: magnificent Horse Armor. Ive based my idea on your mod as it is so far. Might be good, or might not be. No rush, take a look it or dont. Ive given my idea on it.

From cheap to expensive (say lvls: 1. 50g, 2. 100g, 3. 200g, 4. 350g 5. 500
Lvl 1, cloth armor (sort of similar to a caparison)( +5% defense), lvl 2: leather, lvl 3: Chain/Barding (+10% defense), lvl 4: Iron plating (-5% speed, +15% defense), lvl 5 Steelplating (-5% +20% defense). ive deliberatly not added any personal combat skill/points to it, as the horse's armor shouldnt affect that. A saddle however should affect the performace of a rider, be it combat on horse or riding.

included links for pics + my explanation:
Cloth/Caprison: The simple show off and look at my pretty horse! But ive got no cash....
https://nl.pinterest.com/joshlevitre/horse-caparisons/

Leather: For the mounted man whose a little extra to spend on protecting his investment! But still have an eye for speed!
https://www.coroflot.com/petarvelitchkov/Horse-armor-3D-model

Chain/Barding: Full on protecting your horse and almost making a battering ram out of it on the battlefield, start to spend big bucks for it!
http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/military-history/cataphracts-barding-the-history-of-horse-armor/

Ironplating: One of the best, but one of the heaviest ways to protect your horse. Strap armorplating on it! But the drawback is that its so heavy itll reduce your horse's speed. Daunting to look at, especially when its charging towards you!
https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/485333297323579965/

Steelplating: The best and latest way to protect your horse, now its a full on battering ram with steelplating, which doesnt affect the speed or stamina of your horse! + it has the most flair and look at me so might add some big prestige bonus to this one.
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/22757
Purplepineapple  [developer] 23 Jul, 2018 @ 9:32am 
Originally posted by IIRanulph:
Ive got an idea on the horse armors, as right now its 3 lvl's. lvl 1: Horse Armor, lvl 3: durable Horse Armor and lvl 5: magnificent Horse Armor. Ive based my idea on your mod as it is so far. Might be good, or might not be. No rush, take a look it or dont. Ive given my idea on it.

From cheap to expensive (say lvls: 1. 50g, 2. 100g, 3. 200g, 4. 350g 5. 500
Lvl 1, cloth armor (sort of similar to a caparison)( +5% defense), lvl 2: leather, lvl 3: Chain/Barding (+10% defense), lvl 4: Iron plating (-5% speed, +15% defense), lvl 5 Steelplating (-5% +20% defense). ive deliberatly not added any personal combat skill/points to it, as the horse's armor shouldnt affect that. A saddle however should affect the performace of a rider, be it combat on horse or riding.

included links for pics + my explanation:
Cloth/Caprison: The simple show off and look at my pretty horse! But ive got no cash....
https://nl.pinterest.com/joshlevitre/horse-caparisons/

Leather: For the mounted man whose a little extra to spend on protecting his investment! But still have an eye for speed!
https://www.coroflot.com/petarvelitchkov/Horse-armor-3D-model

Chain/Barding: Full on protecting your horse and almost making a battering ram out of it on the battlefield, start to spend big bucks for it!
http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/military-history/cataphracts-barding-the-history-of-horse-armor/

Ironplating: One of the best, but one of the heaviest ways to protect your horse. Strap armorplating on it! But the drawback is that its so heavy itll reduce your horse's speed. Daunting to look at, especially when its charging towards you!
https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/485333297323579965/

Steelplating: The best and latest way to protect your horse, now its a full on battering ram with steelplating, which doesnt affect the speed or stamina of your horse! + it has the most flair and look at me so might add some big prestige bonus to this one.
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/22757

Thats a good write up and I appreciate it.

The issue with mount armor is that I don't want it to give any stats. I only want it there for mounted combat and for random events. Mounts already give a fair amount of stats to the character. I will add some more cultural/region specific ones later though, such as Greek Cataphract Armor and Persian Horse Armor. The problem with those is the images, I'm not really good at making images myself, and my Artist friend is busy with life.

Atm I'm focusing on bugs and general improvements, after that I'll be looking at adding more stuff.

Fun Fact: I originally had Camel armor seperate from exotic, but i merged them at the very end.
jokerahh 30 Jul, 2018 @ 2:15pm 
Suggestion - ignoring my comments from before on general posts, as I have no figured out why things were not triggers, I would say that breeding is to infrequant and I would also suggest increasing breeding of standard horses to make it more realistic.

My suggestions as follows for realsim:

###Realistic horses

Keep breeding age at 6 but ridable age at 4 (horses are ridden and raced from the age of 4).

Introduce gender, Mare’s and Studs.

Mare’s should be ridable, but Studs should have slightly better stats then Mares for each breed.

Pregnancy period should be 11 months, that is how long a Mare carries a foul for.

###Realistic Breeding

Allow studs to reproduce with multiple Mares.

A Mare’s chance to have a foul decrease with age but typically can have 10+ fouls between the ages of 6 and 20, Mare’s rarely have foul’s after 20. This would make it mod a little too crazy if we introduced these high numbers, so I would suggest a max of 5 fouls for standard Mares and up to 8 for fertile Mares. Give each mare the chance to get pregnant every year, but decrease the chance with age, starting at 60% at the age of 6 and, 55% at 8, 50% at 10, 45% at 12, 40% 14, 35% 16, 30% 18, 20% at 20 and 10% 22, 5% at 25. Horses usually die between 25 and 30.

Foul’s should have a chance of being Stud’s breed based on what breed the mare is, the closer to the quality of breed a Mare is to a Stud the increased chance of quality fouls, as below:

Mare is equal quality of breed of Stud: Foul has 5% chance of being 1+ quality breed above stud, 65% chance of same breed of stud, 25% chance of -1 quality below stud and 5% chance of -2 quality below stud.

Mare is lower quality of breed of Stud: Foul has 1% chance of being 1+ quality breed above stud, 50% chance of same breed of stud, 40% chance of -1 quality below stud and 9% chance of -2 quality below stud.

Mare is higher quality of breed of Stud: Foul has 25% chance of being 1+ quality breed above stud, 60% chance of same breed of stud, 15% chance of -1 quality below stud and 0% chance of -2 quality below stud.

Such increased numbers of fouls mean lots more horses, lots more to sell. To balance this I would reduce selling prices slightly, increase costs for buying studs, have the chances of a foul being a stud be less than a Mare 30% chance of Stud 70% chance of Mare.

Also, for balancing add a 10% chance of a foul being born stillborn.

###Horse Trading

Keeping horses would be expensive, so add in some costs, a decrease of 0.03 per adult Mare a month, 0.05 per stud and 0.01 per foul. This means that a Stud will cost a player 18 gold to keep per lifetime, a Mare 10.8 so there is a downside to having lots of horses. Also have different sales costs depending on the age of the Horse, breedable aged horses being able to create profit and no breedbale horses being sold at a loss for example:

Mare Rouncey aged 6 – 10 20G
Mare Rouncey aged 10 – 15 18G
Mare Rouncey aged 25 – 19 15G
Mare Rouncey aged 25+ 8G
Stud Rouncey aged 6 – 10 30G
Stud Rouncey aged 10 – 15 26G
Stud Rouncey aged 15 – 20 20G
Stud Rouncey aged – 25+ 15G

###Buildings

For additional costs but bonuses to breeding and lifespan introduce a few buildings (in the same vain as the personal castle mod) that can be built such as:

Upgradable breeding stables, for 150G, which addsincreased breeding chances by 5% for all horses but costs an additional 0.1G a month.

A race track which creates an intrigue decision hold a race explained in the events part of this below for a onetime fee of G200

Grazing pastures, for G100, that improves lifespan possibility for all horses, but cost G0.05 a month

####Events

Race track race decision, which improves province prosperity but also costs 25G with a chance between 5 and 30%, depending on what the best horse you have in your treasury of winning the race and gaining G100, held only once every 4 years.

Horse injuries, when racing, fighting or anything else horses may fall and break a leg or something and have to be put down, increased chances depending on danger of activity, in horse combat 25% chance of putdownable injury, and races 10% chance of breaking a leg.

Sickness events, research some illness that affect Horses (I’m not familiar with any) and have their be a 5% chance a horse will gain the illness a year, increased to 10 – 30% chance (depending on illness) of horses getting the illness if you have a sick horse in your stables and increase the chance if there is an illness in the province, additional 10% chance for normal illness and 25% for epidemics. Sick horses can die, odds depend on illness, go for 4 or 5 illnesses for variety.

Horse thieves event, an event where some tries to steal your horses, if the thieves are not caught and get away they have a 100% chance of getting one horse and a 30% chance, per horse, of getting all others.

Those are all my ideas, at the moment, minus some method of trading horses with other characters, but that’s a much more complex mod then I think you where planning.
jokerahh 30 Jul, 2018 @ 2:22pm 
On top of this, for balance, and increased risk of being a horse breeder, there should be a really high chance of loosing no equiped horses should your castle being sucsesffuly besieged, like a 50% chance per unquiped horse that it is stolen by the siege winner and 30% chance the horse runs away in the chaos, meaning only 20% chance you keep your horses. Breeding should be highly profitable but also full of risks, sickness, theft, and so on
Purplepineapple  [developer] 30 Jul, 2018 @ 3:02pm 
Those are some very good ideas, I'll reply to each point seperately.

Originally posted by jokerahh:
Keep breeding age at 6 but ridable age at 4 (horses are ridden and raced from the age of 4.)

I had planned on doing that when I was making the mod, but decided against it for 2 main reasons.
First, if I make them ridable at age 4, thats 2 years of riding before they have to change into the proper full grown horses. Also, why would you ride a weaker horse? You already have atleast 2 other fully grown horses.
Second, the AI doesn't handle multiple artifacts that use the same slot very well, I still havn't figured out how they choose which to equip. So only the player would be affected by this system.

Originally posted by jokerahh:
Introduce gender, Mare’s and Studs.

Mare’s should be ridable, but Studs should have slightly better stats then Mares for each breed.

Pregnancy period should be 11 months, that is how long a Mare carries a foul for.

There's no easy way to display their gender if I do that. If I add it to the name like with traits, it would be too long and messy.
If I made each gender have different stats I would need 2 artifacts for every horse breed, one male and one female. That would be a nightmare for me to work on.

Originally posted by jokerahh:
###Realistic Breeding

Allow studs to reproduce with multiple Mares.

A Mare’s chance to have a foul decrease with age but typically can have 10+ fouls between the ages of 6 and 20, Mare’s rarely have foul’s after 20. This would make it mod a little too crazy if we introduced these high numbers, so I would suggest a max of 5 fouls for standard Mares and up to 8 for fertile Mares. Give each mare the chance to get pregnant every year, but decrease the chance with age, starting at 60% at the age of 6 and, 55% at 8, 50% at 10, 45% at 12, 40% 14, 35% 16, 30% 18, 20% at 20 and 10% 22, 5% at 25. Horses usually die between 25 and 30.

Foul’s should have a chance of being Stud’s breed based on what breed the mare is, the closer to the quality of breed a Mare is to a Stud the increased chance of quality fouls, as below:

Mare is equal quality of breed of Stud: Foul has 5% chance of being 1+ quality breed above stud, 65% chance of same breed of stud, 25% chance of -1 quality below stud and 5% chance of -2 quality below stud.

Mare is lower quality of breed of Stud: Foul has 1% chance of being 1+ quality breed above stud, 50% chance of same breed of stud, 40% chance of -1 quality below stud and 9% chance of -2 quality below stud.

Mare is higher quality of breed of Stud: Foul has 25% chance of being 1+ quality breed above stud, 60% chance of same breed of stud, 15% chance of -1 quality below stud and 0% chance of -2 quality below stud.

Such increased numbers of fouls mean lots more horses, lots more to sell. To balance this I would reduce selling prices slightly, increase costs for buying studs, have the chances of a foul being a stud be less than a Mare 30% chance of Stud 70% chance of Mare.

Also, for balancing add a 10% chance of a foul being born stillborn.

The gender thing I already talked about above.
I made the breeding limit 2 / 3 for fertile horses is so that you would'nt just buy 2 horses then be set for the entire game. That would make the Heartlands Supply system totally irrelevant, and cause way too many artifacts in the game. Which will impact performance as well.

Originally posted by jokerahh:
###Horse Trading

Keeping horses would be expensive, so add in some costs, a decrease of 0.03 per adult Mare a month, 0.05 per stud and 0.01 per foul. This means that a Stud will cost a player 18 gold to keep per lifetime, a Mare 10.8 so there is a downside to having lots of horses. Also have different sales costs depending on the age of the Horse, breedable aged horses being able to create profit and no breedbale horses being sold at a loss for example:

Mare Rouncey aged 6 – 10 20G
Mare Rouncey aged 10 – 15 18G
Mare Rouncey aged 25 – 19 15G
Mare Rouncey aged 25+ 8G
Stud Rouncey aged 6 – 10 30G
Stud Rouncey aged 10 – 15 26G
Stud Rouncey aged 15 – 20 20G
Stud Rouncey aged – 25+ 15G

I am thinking of an "upkeep" cost, but still looking for the best way to add it.
You can sell horses actually, but it does need some more revision. You can access it by right clicking on your character's portrait.

Originally posted by jokerahh:
###Buildings

For additional costs but bonuses to breeding and lifespan introduce a few buildings (in the same vain as the personal castle mod) that can be built such as:

Upgradable breeding stables, for 150G, which addsincreased breeding chances by 5% for all horses but costs an additional 0.1G a month.

A race track which creates an intrigue decision hold a race explained in the events part of this below for a onetime fee of G200

Grazing pastures, for G100, that improves lifespan possibility for all horses, but cost G0.05 a month

I actually really like these ideas. Maybe not the breeding stables, I might make breeding chances increase with your Stablemaster's abilities instead.

Originally posted by jokerahh:
####Events

Race track race decision, which improves province prosperity but also costs 25G with a chance between 5 and 30%, depending on what the best horse you have in your treasury of winning the race and gaining G100, held only once every 4 years.

Horse injuries, when racing, fighting or anything else horses may fall and break a leg or something and have to be put down, increased chances depending on danger of activity, in horse combat 25% chance of putdownable injury, and races 10% chance of breaking a leg.

Sickness events, research some illness that affect Horses (I’m not familiar with any) and have their be a 5% chance a horse will gain the illness a year, increased to 10 – 30% chance (depending on illness) of horses getting the illness if you have a sick horse in your stables and increase the chance if there is an illness in the province, additional 10% chance for normal illness and 25% for epidemics. Sick horses can die, odds depend on illness, go for 4 or 5 illnesses for variety.

Horse thieves event, an event where some tries to steal your horses, if the thieves are not caught and get away they have a 100% chance of getting one horse and a 30% chance, per horse, of getting all others.

I have plans for a Great Race event and decision, but thats after I work on the mounted combat for a bit.
I'm slowly adding more and more flavor events relating to injuries and the such.
Sickness has the same problem as genders, theres no easy way to keep track of which horse is sick or not for the player.
I wanted to add a event where a rival might steal one of your horses, but I think that might be a bit too harsh atm. I might change my mind in the future.

Originally posted by jokerahh:
Those are all my ideas, at the moment, minus some method of trading horses with other characters, but that’s a much more complex mod then I think you where planning.

Yea thats probably never going to happen :p. Teaching the AI to use something like that would make me lose all my hair.

Originally posted by jokerahh:
On top of this, for balance, and increased risk of being a horse breeder, there should be a really high chance of loosing no equiped horses should your castle being sucsesffuly besieged, like a 50% chance per unquiped horse that it is stolen by the siege winner and 30% chance the horse runs away in the chaos, meaning only 20% chance you keep your horses. Breeding should be highly profitable but also full of risks, sickness, theft, and so on

I'm really glad you're enjoying this mod, but I never really intended breeding to be the main feature of the mod, but rather a complementary one. I will improve it as I improve any other part of the mod, but it probably won't ever get as complex as you would like it to be.
Last edited by Purplepineapple; 30 Jul, 2018 @ 3:03pm
jokerahh 30 Jul, 2018 @ 3:23pm 
I am glad you liked some of my ideas, that is a shame about the breeding things though, it seemed to me like this could have been a stepping stone to an entierly new economy for the game, whereby farming, hunting for sustance and animal husbandry could have been introduced, but that would be a massive overhaul mod, which would probably require horses to move away from the artifcat system and have some entierly new tab for it
local news 4 Aug, 2018 @ 4:34am 
Loved the mod , but then it worked fine for a week and now im not able to buy horses anymore , my gold keeps getting refunded when i buy becasue no horses are avilable in the hearthlands.

Also i got the glitterhoof horse via event and i got one from china too .Can they breed ?
Last edited by local news; 4 Aug, 2018 @ 4:35am
Purplepineapple  [developer] 4 Aug, 2018 @ 5:06am 
Originally posted by local news:
Loved the mod , but then it worked fine for a week and now im not able to buy horses anymore , my gold keeps getting refunded when i buy becasue no horses are avilable in the hearthlands.

Also i got the glitterhoof horse via event and i got one from china too .Can they breed ?

Well you'll just have to wait for more mounts to be available, the AI buys stuff too, and theres some randomization every 2 years. Heartlands should always recover with time, you can check the ingame book for more info.

Unique horses can't breed at all, only 1 of each type can exist in the game. When it dies, you can try getting it again.
local news 5 Aug, 2018 @ 2:53am 
Originally posted by Auirus:
Originally posted by local news:
Loved the mod , but then it worked fine for a week and now im not able to buy horses anymore , my gold keeps getting refunded when i buy becasue no horses are avilable in the hearthlands.

Also i got the glitterhoof horse via event and i got one from china too .Can they breed ?

Well you'll just have to wait for more mounts to be available, the AI buys stuff too, and theres some randomization every 2 years. Heartlands should always recover with time, you can check the ingame book for more info.

Unique horses can't breed at all, only 1 of each type can exist in the game. When it dies, you can try getting it again.

Thanks for the reply ,just found out it has recovered after a couple years and i can buy stuff again

Oh i do have a suggestion : can u make elephants available for persians and african cultures too?
Last edited by local news; 5 Aug, 2018 @ 2:54am
Purplepineapple  [developer] 5 Aug, 2018 @ 8:23am 
Originally posted by local news:
Oh i do have a suggestion : can u make elephants available for persians and african cultures too?

African Elephants are available in Gao. Persians didn't really use war elephants in ck2's timeframe, they used them much earlier.
I suggest giving the Thessalonike and Central Asian horse heartland Nisean horses;while the Indian horse heartland should have Marwari horses.
Last edited by alphonsechristophe; 30 Aug, 2018 @ 2:53am
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