I'll kick things off. Last game was Dwarf Dreadnought, single player, huge map with some difficulty boosting mods. Units I used:

I Axewielder - I started out with some of these. More useful than I thought they'd be, thanks to their Total Awareness, but still a tier 1 melee with less defensive potential than the normal Axeman. I phased them out quickly.

I Mechanic - Didn't actually use much since I didn't build many machines. (I wanted to use the racial units.) But they should be great if you have flame tanks or golems. I can definitely see including them in my late-game flame-tank/Juggernaut stacks along with an engineer... except for the fact that Engineers and Machines have 36 movement with Global Assault, but Mechanics don't benefit. I know that compatibility means editing these spells isn't likely, but it does make it hard to mix mod and non-mod units.

I Blunderbussman - Skipped. It's nice that I could build them in turn 1, but engineers are just so much more useful to a dreadnought that these seem redundant. (Especially if you have the PBEM mod which buffs engineers a lot.) Should they perhaps be a non-dreadnought unit?

II Mad Lad - Now this one is fun. I actually build more of them in a non-dreadnought game, but they are suprisingly versatile and effective in early-game clearing. The pistol & being tier 2 makes them much more useful than the Blunderbussman, and non-dreadnoughts can even get them.

II Housecarl - Solid, unremarkable. Better than an Axeman, but not that much better until Gold medal, and much more expensive. But I still relied on these a lot in the early game and I was very happy to have them too. Plus they look cool. These work fine.

II Mastersmith - I started out with this one and it turned out to be a much better unit than I'd thought so I build some more. The Meteoric armour upgrade gets redundant eventually, but early on it's great. And the maintenance gives them a dual role in guarding and repairing machines. These plus Trebuchet/Forge Priest also make a very high-quality garrison you can build in cities without barracks/class buildings.

III Breechloader - Main reason I wanted to play a Dwarven dreadnought, and they did not disappoint... initially. They look great, and in all the early battles their firepower carried all before them. Later on their damage potential started to fall behind that of my enemies and I ended up wishing I'd build more Flame tanks instead. (Which actually deal more damage per target AND are AoE AND are a ton cheaper AND are tougher.) But you can get these much earlier than flame tanks, so they are still a very good and characterful unit. Next time I'll just phase them out earlier. I do think they're a bit over-priced for what they do, though.

III Patriarch - A bit hard to get for what it does: essentially the next evolution in the axeman/housecarl line. But without the Housecarl's Defender ability, so actually not a straight upgrade. I build a lot of these to guard my machines/breechloaders, and could never quite decide if they were better or worse than Firstborn, which means they're well balanced. The Defensive Strike and Strong Will upgrades make a difference, but the lack of firedamage and aura means they hit less hard. With Racial Governance Upgrades the Firstborn are plain better, though. However, the screenshots don't do just how cool the Patriarch's plaid cloak looks when viewed from behind, so I ended up building patriarchs instead of Firstborn anyway.

III Frostbeard- Now here's a unit. Unfortunately I could only find one spot that had a Crystal Tree AND a Hall of the Forefathers, so I only got a few of these, but once they hit gold rank... elemental damage and an even better aura than the Firstborn, Defensive Strike like a Patriarch. It's a good thing they don't get the racial governance upgrades Firstborn do, or it would be too much. It's probably a good thing there were no locations on the map with a Hall, Crystal Tree, Dungeon and Palace of the Lich King, or the Frostbears would have been smashing their way through entire armies single-handedly.

IV Little Modin - This unit will make it very had to ever play a non-Dwarf dreadnought ever again. It's not technically BETTER than the Juggernaut, since it lacks AoE damage and is much less tough and needs more support, but the giant cannon looks amazingly cool, and it never gets old to see them blow down a tier 4 unit with a critical strike at maximum range. I had this large battle where two of my stacks were attacked by three stacks of mostly Frostling Manticore Riders and Ice Kings, with Global Assault active. My poor Patriarchs and Breechloaders were completely outmatched and I had accidentally run out of mana and could not support them, but the two Little Modins saved the day with their long-range support fire. Everyone died except they and 1 engineer, but still.

All in all, it was a lot of fun to play a dreadnought with this mod. Normally, regardless of the race I use, I end up building stacks of 2 engineers, 2 cannon, 1 flame tank and 1 juggernaut, because that's what I find works best. Musketeers are too weak and there are no other racial dreadnought units. But now I could do something completely different and still have a proper Dreadnought army. Although the Breechloaders didn't turn out quite as well as I'd hoped. (26 damage a turn sounds nice, until you go up against 130 HP Champion Ice Kings and the like. The mods I have probably didn't help me here.)

Compared to other races I've tried, I was a bit disappointed at the lack of mystical city upgrade units. Just the Frostbeard and the Mad Lad. Those were both great, admittedly. The Humans probably spoiled me on that front.

Nice evaluation; what's your thoughts on the various new human units?

Originally posted by highwayhoss:

Nice evaluation; what's your thoughts on the various new human units?

Thank! But human units? That's a tall order. There are tons of them, and balance changes have altered quite a few since I last used them. But I have thoughts on some. I've played Human Warlord and Sorcerer, though the latter was in a much earlier version of the mod.

I Pikeman - Cannon fodder. They look nice, and I like the idea of pike-and-shot armies, but these guys are too weak to actually be used for anything except cheap garrisons.

I Landsknecht - When I last used these, they were a very nice addition to the human armies. Available from Storehouses, so you could recruit them in economic cities, and they evolved to Doppelsöldner. Unfortunately, with the changes they require a mercenary camp, and if I have that I certainly am not going to build these guys. They're a pretty nice tier 1 pikeman, but unless they reach gold medal they're worse than Halberdiers.

I Arquebusier - A fun addition to the roster. But I've only used them as late-game garrisons, as I'm unlikely to build Flowrock Quarries in the early game, and they don't seem strong enough to focus on.

I Huntsman - I've only used a few of these. They're worse than Hunters in all respects... except they have Longbows, which makes them very useful. Ironically, they're great garrison units. (Speed doesn't matter, walls help range even more.) Also nice to start with.

II Doppelsöldner - When I used this, it was frankly overpowered. Since then it's lost Tireless and gained Killing Momentum, which is also awesome but before they could get both thanks to Dungeons. Still, they're an excellent offensive infantry unit, with Guard Breaker, First Strike, and Overwhelm, and you can get them very early if you find a Trading Post. They're the reason I'll never build a Landsknecht again.

II Royal Musketeer - Honestly, the difference with a normal musketeer is minor, and even then not necessarily for the better. I use my musketeers aggressively and occasionally charge in rather than reload, so I miss the armour. Still, martial arts and more damage is nice, and they do look cool.

II Foot Knight - Another solid tier 2 infantry, and this one doesn't need any mystic city upgrades. Before, the Doppelsöldner stole their thunder a bit, and they still kind of do, but with their polearms and extra resistance and damage the knights are not to be scoffed at. If I have a city with a dungeon I'll build these.

II Wolvenguard - Haven't used many. Also used to be outclassed by the good old Doppelsöldner, but now these have Tireless at gold. Still, I doubt I'll build any in the future, as I prefer the style of the other tier 2 infantry.

II Lancer - The difference with cavalry is minute, and they can't get the racial governance upgrade. I do like how they look, though, and tactically I prefer the devastating charge ability over the extra damage. Burst damage can be applied to great effect. Their Sprint ability at gold would be noteworthy, except they immediately evolve, so...

II Prodigal Squire - Very nice. The random evolution is fun. Plus they have shields. However, if I have a Spring of Life I am more likely to build good tier 3 knights directly if I can.

II Hidalgo - Although I've only rarely seen one of these, I just love having Don Quichotte in my army. Tactically it's just a pluckier, luckier lancer.

II Pavisier - Now we're talking. This is an excellent unit. The Pillar of the Stylites is easy to get AND synergises well with these. Plus Defender, Projectile resistance, (Improved) Wallclimbing and eventually Defensive Strike make these brilliant at holding the line. Humans are great at fielding tier 2 infantry armies now, no matter what class you play, and my favourite combination is these guys supported by foot knight/Doppelsöldner and priests and maybe some missile unit.

II Palace Guard - A nice unit. Stylish. Essentially much improved Halberdiers, but with Defender. However, they require a Grand Palace, and by the time I get that these just aren't relevant anymore. And the game is likely to be decided already. (If halberdiers evolved to become these, though, I'd be building tons of those)

II Marksman - Same issue as the Palace Guard except worse as it's a worse unit. It's an incremental upgrade over the normal archer (Few stat points here and there, blessed arrows a bit earlier) and they require the Grand Palace to build? Yeah, if I build these it's because I've already won and want some nice decorative unit to stand on the walls of my capital.

II Sharpshooter - Much better. (Although, side note, these two units have names that are confusingly similar considering how different they are.) You can get the Focus Chamber early, it bolsters their ranged attack further, and they offer a new tactical role for non-dreadnought humans. Plus they have the coolest armour in the human roster. (Shared with the Sword Banneret, Reginue Guard, and Knight of the Wyvern Blade.) If I have a focus chamber, these guys are bound to get a spot in my cheap-tier-two stacks. And they will also take the Marksman's job of looking stylish on my capital walls. It's not even a close competition.

III Retinue Guard - Slower than the Phalanx, inflicting less damage, without a Crippling Wounds ability... but they get Defender, which makes them better at their prime role of being an unmovable object. Plus, they look great. So in slower armies I will definitely use these instead of their vanilla counterpart. Still, they're only an incremental boost over the Pavisier, so if I'm short on cash I will stick with those over either.

III Sword Banneret - Now here's a unit. They hit like a truck and have a ton of great abilities besides, like Tireless, Strong Will, Guard Breaker and Martial Arts. They've been nerfed some since I used them, and with good reason, because they were giving Humans better infantry than Orcs or Dwarfs. They still give Shocktroopers and the like a run for their money, and do it with considerably more style. Their only downside is how hard they are to get, seeing as you need to clear a Mystical treasure site. And chances of getting the Ziggurat in the same city as a Dungeon and Crystal Tree is minute. But if you do get that combo...

III Cuirassier - And so we reach the longest portion of this post: human tier 3 cavalry. The Cuirassier is different from the rest in that A] it's not a knight and B] it's primarily ranged. It's a nice unit to have. Sprint and pistols make it flexible and hard-hitting. I've enjoyed using the ones I got as rewards or starting units. However, as a Dreadnought I doubt I would build many, as I could get proper Knights instead AND give them pistols with dreadnought research. Cuirassier or Zephyr Knight with pistol? I know which one wins.

III Knight of Bronze - With the Human Knightly orders, the question is less which one is better, and more which one you happen to have available. I tend to build anything I can. That said, the Knight of Bronze is a nice one to get. Solid stats and martial arts make them a great unit for just getting stuck head-on.

III Knight of the Tides - Another excellent knight. This one excels at anti-cavalry (Polearm, eventually First Strike) and inflicts shock damage. Also better stats than a normal knight. Losing Devastating Charge hurts, but it's a worthwhile tradeoff.

III Forlorn Knight - This one acts more like mounted infantry: tough, tireless, but without nearly as nasty a charge as other knights. They can be a nightmare to take down, and when they get Killing Momentum they can charge, kill a unit, and enter guard mode to weather all counter attacks. Another excellent unit.

III Storm Knight - Haven't used it much, thanks to the vagaries of the random map generator.

III Zephyr Knight - One of my favourites. Admittedly, not one of the most powerful units the humans have. It's far less tough, far less tanky. But for speed and hitting power, they're second to none. Combine them with some tough defensive infantry, or tankier knights like Forlorn or Wyvern Blade, and use them for high-speed flanking attacks. Plus, they look glorious on their white steeds.

III Knight of the Wyvern Blade - And here we have the winner of the "Who is the most stylish knight of all" competition. Also the "who is hardest to recruit" competition, because they require you to fight a Lich King's guardians first. But you do get an excellent unit in return, with three damage channels, strong will, and eventually fear strike and greater life stealing.

IV Gryphon Knight - Okay, this one cheats by riding a Griffon. Also, warlord only, so it makes more sense to compare him to the Manticore than to the other knights. There, we see the Manticore hits a bit harder, but the Gryphon Knight is tougher, can get armour upgrades, has spirit immunity, first strike, and eventually Tireless. The Gryphon Knight is clearly better, and the go-to end-game unit for human warlords. Also, needless to say, it looks much cooler. (That said, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets some nerfs somewhere down the line, if only because I'll be suggesting such to the mod author.)

And that's it! I haven't used the other human units yet.

All in all, humans are the coolest race in this mod by far. They can build cheap garrisons of mod-units, highly efficient and cost-effective tier 2 field armies of mostly mod-units, or devastating stacks of tier 3 mod-unit cavalry. They have amazing pikemen and infantry and knights, and some nice archers as well. The only vanilla unit you still need is the Priest.

Regarding the Storm Knight, I've had them a couple of times; In my experience they are quite effective. Shock damage plus Static Shield make them very useful in melee.

I do read these and take notes, thinking of a few balance changes!

I think the Palace Guard and Marksman are mostly fine, might increase Marksman damage by 1. They are meant as replacements for their lesser counterparts in cities with palaces as a quick-to-build defense, though both do work fine in the field as well, Palace Guards are quite effective against shielded cavalry/flyers and decent against pike units used at that point, and best used holding the line just like pavisiers. They won't stand up against anything but what they counter in terms of tier 3s, but as a defensive measure and a late game spam (as someone I know is very fond of) they do their job well.

Originally posted by Tasty Buttcream:

I do read these and take notes, thinking of a few balance changes!

I think the Palace Guard and Marksman are mostly fine, might increase Marksman damage by 1. They are meant as replacements for their lesser counterparts in cities with palaces as a quick-to-build defense, though both do work fine in the field as well, Palace Guards are quite effective against shielded cavalry/flyers and decent against pike units used at that point, and best used holding the line just like pavisiers. They won't stand up against anything but what they counter in terms of tier 3s, but as a defensive measure and a late game spam (as someone I know is very fond of) they do their job well.

It's partially a reflection of playing style, partially a reflection of game settings.

Palace Guards are a good unit, like I said. But I evaluate these units based on two criteria: 1] Do I build them? 2] Does their presence influence my strategy or tactics?

The second group is a fairly exclusive company. My criteria are harsh here, as they are in vanilla. Indeed, I never build half the vanilla units. I mostly skip the tier 1s, because anything they can beat is not a threat in the first place. I usually skip racial cavalry and sometimes racial tier 3s.

A unit like the Lancer is passes criterion 1, but not 2. It's a fun unit, but I use it the same way I do normal cavalry and I'd build a rider's hall anyway.

A unit like the Pavisier is in group 2. It is such a good defensive unit, that if I get access to them I will build different armies, focusing on defensive units with more missile troops. Likewise, if I had access to Doppelsöldner, that would greatly affect my play. In vanilla, the Human Priest is such a unit. Having it makes for a completely different game than not having it.

The palace guard are a group 1 unit. I build them when I can, but the units that actually influence the way I play are the ones that come into play in the critical earlier conflicts. As such palace guards come too late to make much of a difference. If they were available earlier they'd be in group 2. But that just reiterates they are a very good unit.

The Marksmen are in neither group. Yes, they're a valid alternative for the common archer, but I don't build common archers either after early game. (And usually not even then.) When deciding on stack composition, I will never be glad to have another one of these when I could have a Priest or Sharpshooter or whatever instead. If I have a grand palace the game is late enough that I'll have plenty of options.

Did some balance changes, most notably Huntsman, which was severly underpowered. I have heard this before, had no idea it was THAT underpowered compared to hunter. I suppose it's because the first time I heard it, it was from someone who thought one-shot ranged attacks were better than three-shots with slightly lower damage, so I just thought he didn't notice the longbow.

So i have a question about the unit list for the mod. could you please add a plus sign or something next to the new units that you add or make an update list to see what gets added and changed i love this mod but there are so many units in the unit list i miss the new stuff that is added. i would really like to prioritize what race to play when ever the mod updates just to play with the new stuff.

I would recommend to check the update notes, I always post updates there, be it new units or balance changes.

So, I've been playing a lot of Goblins lately, for obvious reasons. Goblins are the best, even if their units are mostly good at dying quickly. I've been playing Goblin warlord and archdruid, but have also used some other class units here and there.

I Bomber(Requires Laboratory) - Now this is an interesting unit. Useless 95% of the time, as they need to die to do damage. But when they do, they deal a ton of damage. Which means they can be used to clear or weaken dangerous treasure sites early on. Even Dread Reapers will feel this blast.

I Slinger - Useful as a last-ditch effort garrison unit in cities with no barracks. Otherwise, although they cost half of what Swarm Darters do, their upkeep is the same and so it's much better to just build Swarm Darters in the long run.

I Headsman(Requires Arena) - I love their description and the way they look, but I doubt I'll ever build one. Simply too much effort to get a mediocre tier 1 infantry unit. They're fun to encounter as random map guards, though.

I Spearling - Meant to be cannon fodder, and cannon fodder they are. It's nice to be able to build them without barracks, though.

I Rapscallion(Requires Harbor and Scoundrel research) - Cannon fodder. Their net-throwing ability comes too late (gold medal) to be relevant, and if you want Sabotage a scoundrel is just as easy to get and much more useful.

I Fanatic (Requires Theocrat's Conclave) - Cannon fodder. (Are we detecting a theme here?) At least these are cheap. But then, so are marauders once they get a medal.

I Zomblin (Requires Harvester's Guild and Reanimator research) - Cannon fodder. However, these are UNDYING cannon fodder, which makes them quite good at their job (of being cannon fodder) early on. Lost Souls are plain better, though.

I Spider Ganger (Requires Arch Druid's Dolmen) - Shockingly, these are not cannon fodder, but a cheap and useful disabling unit with Webbing Touch. Decently fast too. Interestingly, they count as animals and so get bonuses for Wildlife Refuge and Beast Mastery, and Awaken works on them. However, their usefulness fades quickly and by mid-game they are too squishy.


II Witch Doctor (Requires Temple) - Not a great unit, but it is very useful for Goblins in particular as it specialises in fighting one of their achilles' heels: the undead. Being able to deal Spirit damage instead of blight or physical can be a lifesaver.

II Chef (Requires Slaughter Pits) - Essentially a Halfling Brew Brother, but learns to throw a chicken instead of boosting morale. Having a healing unit in your ranks is no small boon, but having to clear a dungeon means you're unlikely to get these early. (when you need them.)

II Sergeant (Requires Focus Chamber) - Their crossbows hit quite hard, and they learn Inspiring Presence at gold rank. Useful against high defense, blight-resistant foes. Still, only an occasional part of my line-up.

II Poxmaster (Requires Hospital) - I love this unit. It looks like an archer, but it's an irregular and quite a capable melee fighter because of it. Their short bows don't deal much damage, but they inflict quite a few nasty debuffs. Best of all, at max racial governance, Goblin irregulars learn Inflict Weakness (their archers don't) which means these can spread a LOT of blight vulnerability around with three shots per round, and their own attacks will also deal a lot more damage. Great synergy with other Goblin units.

II Redcap (Requires Pillar of the Stylites) - My favourite tier 2 goblin unit, beating out my beloved Butcher. With Charge and Overwhelm they hit hard, and with Tireless at gold medal they become a mincing machine of death. Plus, they look amazing. I mass-produce these in my late-game armies if I can. However, don't discount the Butchers just yet: Redcaps don't get Lifesteal or Volunteer.

II Gibbering Giblet (Requires Laboratory and Apprentice research) - Tier 2 cannon fodder, and much superior because of it. One can always find a use for units with Regrowth. Greater Lifesteal and Devour Corpse are icing. An excellent unit.

II Mutant (Requires Laboratory and Warbeed research) - Warbreed research comes late, and these units are mostly just slightly cheaper, considerably worse versions. They only learn regrowth at gold medal. However, as half-class units, non-Warlords can start with these. If you do, count your lucky stars and keep them alive at all cost until they do learn Regrowth. They won't let you down.

II Happy Stabber (Requires Rogue's Palace and Assassin research) - I love this unit for the name alone. Pounce is a nice trade-off for Assassin's Strike and offers some much needed mobility, and they also pack a real punch. Too bad Dark Pact doesn't help them.


III Great Beetle (Requires Beetle Command) - Honestly, these are very similar to the normal Big Beetles. Points for nostalgia, and stat-wise they're a bit better.

III Ravager (Requires Grand Palace) - Getting a flying racial unit is a nice advantage for the Goblins. With their nets and (eventually) wingbeat, the Ravager is a nice supporting unit. However, stat-wise, they just don't really justify tier three upkeep. Even the Beetles (which are weak enough as-is) hit much harder.

III Brood Witch (Requires Henge and Shaman research) - An interesting variant of the Shaman. Slower, can't swim, can't entangle, befriend or awaken animals, or heal. But she can summon spiderlings, cause fear, and eventually web foes. The spiderlings are cannon fodder by the time you get these, but they do add a great deal of tactical flexibility. Especially in sieges, having a Brood Witch or two will stand you in good stead. Still, normal Shamans remain first priority, as those are just much more versatile.

III Turtleguard (Requires Grand Palace and Phalanx research) - Generally a weaker version of the normal Phalanx. Defender and Defensive Strike are great abilities, but without Tireless it's too easy to lose them, and offensively they just don't pack the punch Goblin phalanxes do with Lifestealing and Overwhelm. That said, they're a very decent unit, and can be built in cities that don't have the Warlord structures. You can also start with them as non-Warlord, if you're lucky, and then they will shine.

IV Arachnaoth (Requires Great Beast Lair and Manticore Rider research) - Now this unit is a tank. Stat-wise it's as tough as a dragon. Between the Webbing and all the fear abilities it can disable half the enemy army. Of course, it doesn't fly, and you do pay a premium price, but the warlord economy can probably handle it. Oh, and if you can get some Archdruid heroes, you won't regret it. Awaken Animal and Savage Rage will turn these into true juggernauts of destruction.

I hired a couple of Happy Stabbers from Inns in my current game. I agree they are very useful for flank attacks especially when supported by heavier units.

I am playing a game as a Orc Theocrat.
Supported by a Sorcerer, Necromancer and a Archdruid as my 3 heroes.

Between the Theocrat's Convert and the Necromancers Greater Resurrection, I get a lot of different units to play with.

Some of the lower level units are somewhat overpowered, or maybe it is the way I play them.

The Orc Torturer is a good example.
It has both inflict- & Exploit despair (giving both Spirit and cold damage channels)
A gold rank shreds Trolls in a single round

The Elven Trickster is another one.
The Inflict dazzled and the many channels of damage (I counted 4)
It absolutely slays as well with a flanking attack it can get dazzled of most of the time,
stopping any retaliation.

Is that too much power for lvl 2 guys?

The Kobold Geomancer on the other hand is a fun and balanced lvl 2 guy.
He can do a little rock throwing and paralyze touch, but without the healing my Theocrat gives,
he doesn't do much most of the time.

I do not see the point of the Orc Rusher... most useless unit ever.
Actually most of the lvl 1 Orc Units are underwhelming

The lvl 2 Spirit Healer makes no sense, as it is an unit, that gives healing and spirit damage, all stuff the Theocrat has in spades, but you get them late, as they need Evangelist research.
Maybe if they were available at Martyr lvl? To field an early healer before all support gets healing.

The Orcs could use a general support unit that could buff/heal some.
Something like an Orc Weird Boy.
Grant Bless or "Lesser Spirit of Warrior" (+1dmg and Athletics maybe?)
Nourishing meal or other lesser heal
and a simple poison spit as ranged attack.
some inflicts and various (fire and spirit alternating) rmg dmg on upgrades (make the spit a bit like the Orc Priest)

Just a few observations