Age of Wonders III

Age of Wonders III

Chivalrous Intentions
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That Human  [developer] 12 Jul, 2022 @ 1:30am
High Elf Theocrat T4 rework!
As Xenosophont have mentioned, it is probably the best I rework the High Elf Theocrat to focus on the Cult of Storms rather than the unfocused "generic" theocrat I made the race+class combination out to be. This means the addition of a new unit, but if necessary, so be it.

The Dragon is also currently banned in the multiplayer community so it would also help balance overall.

Currently, the idea is a Support unit called the Storm Prince. Once a son of a Dark Elf lord now grown to prominence within the cult. However, his incredible power seems to be unnatural, how could this noble, formely known for his decadent lifestyle, become so powerful? Could he be possessed by an Incarnate? Or divine providence?

There are a few ideas of how the unit will be portrayed (which will also affect playstyle):
-On foot
-Mounted on horse
-Mounted on unicorn
-Mounted on gryphon (less likely due to Gryphon Prince)
-Winged
-Mounted on Blue Wyvern

As for abilities, Thunder Storm and Call Lightning have been considered. I am also considering the ability to summon a personal bodyguard of Noble Guards, given that he will likely not be as tough as other T4s. Another idea is to retain the dragon (though nerfed) as a form he can shapeshift to, or perhaps shapeshift into something else, perhaps a T4 elemental known as the "Storm Incarnate".

The Sacred Dragon will not be retired if it will be cut out from the main Theocrat roster, instead be modified into a Dragon Dwelling unit.

Other units:

High Elf Cleric will also be reworked into a Storm Priest. As much as the word "Storm" is already and will be overused with the addition of the prince, it is descriptive.

Stormborn will remain unchanged unless something is brought up.

Suggestions are appreciated!
Last edited by That Human; 12 Jul, 2022 @ 4:54am
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Xenosophont 12 Jul, 2022 @ 4:47am 
>Currently, the idea is a Support unit called the Gryphon Prince.
>-Mounted on gryphon (less likely due to Gryphon Prince)
>As much as the word "Storm" is already and will be overused with the addition of the prince
I'm confused: was that Tier4 unit supposed to be called "Storm Prince" or something?

I'd like to just have him called "Stormlord" as it's iconic (they were the leaders/commanders of the Cult) but I don't know if overtly direct references to the command structure of the "old" Cult of Storms would be lore accurate. What the High Elves have in AoWIII is a sort of reformed Cult, a "neo-Cult of Storms" with the Initiates and Storm Sisters and judging from the campaign storyline, those who are completely loyal to the ideals of the old Cult have to work undercover/in the shadows due to obvious reasons. The "Wood Elf" descended Elves post-Mending wouldn't take kindly to those claiming to be direct representatives of the exact same CoS which often slaughtered them in the events of AoW I & II.

"Prophet of the Storm", perhaps? "Herald of Storms"?

I envision a levitating & robed guy with his face covered by a hood with lightning sparks all around him - permeating with UNLIMITED POWER. Yes, a Palpie/Sheeeeeev trope :P. Fits with the mysterious/hidden source of great power theme. Would a modified Wraith/Reaper model get the job done? Or a High Elven Hero model with the hooded mask using a levitating movement & animation?

Horse feels too generic & in conflict with the excellent idea of shapeshifting into a Storm Elemental and I definitely wouldn't use a Unicorn mount as that strongly represents the Wood Elf/Keeper/Julia faction of Elves. If there's gonna be a mount, a Zephyr Bird could be cool /a bird of storms & air. Blue Wyvern fits the draconic theme overused by other races and the Wyvern model in general is really ugly in AoWIII. Winged is another decent option but then you'd have 3 winged units in the HE Theocrat roster with the Exalted and the Stormborn already in there.

I think there's design space for a mid-tier "Arcane Archer" style HE unit (shooting Arcane Arrows from the get go without waiting for a late game Racial Governance tier and Infict Shocking with ranged attacks and Seeker as medal-gained abilities fitting the Arcane Archer trope) and the Stormborn could be replaced with this kind of unit because it really feels like a slightly different version of Exalted/ almost an Exalted clone. "Temple Archers", "Stormbowman"? Hooded or masked, using fluff similar to Executioners: taken as children by the Storm Priests and raised to be loyal/fanatical death machines.

That way it would feel less "copypasta-ey" to make the Tier4 "Prophet of the Storm" or "Herald of Storms" a winged dapper gent without being a purely melee oriented unit like the Exalted and the current Stormborn with abilities like you've mentioned. Call Lightning (long ranged, can use it plenty of times before it's shapeshifting time), Shapeshifting into "Storm Incarnate" (nod to the Incarnate from I and II) and summoning a storm-themed unit like Air Elementals (lesser) or Zephyr Birds would be cool.
Last edited by Xenosophont; 12 Jul, 2022 @ 4:51am
That Human  [developer] 12 Jul, 2022 @ 4:55am 
I made a mistake! I meant to write "Storm Prince", oh well. Fixed.
tazarbill 12 Jul, 2022 @ 5:28pm 
i can give you few ideas ABOUT Elven units from my own mod in aow2sm
1. Holy warrior style Noldrien aka LOTR Haldir (on foot)with passive abilities :holy champ ,armoured,chance for extra strike(4th strike ability every time he attacks,which btw exists already as ability for the heroes in TDI Heroes+TDI Abilities mods which btw is the best by far hero mod in aow3) phys+hol dmg in mellee strikes
2.Grand Druid with holy bolts,a small amount of luck(in aow2 i had given druid the Blur ability +25%chance to avoid incoming hits),improved entangle for cc,greater healing, shapeshifting ability to a really ferocious bear,entagling strike on gold medal
3. an improved and somehow different version of your own elven mageblade maybe
Xenosophont 14 Jul, 2022 @ 6:31am 
>-Mounted on gryphon (less likely due to Gryphon Prince)

You're saying "less likely" because you probably feel both "Princes" mounted on a Gryphon would be too "copypasta" but this could actually be a really good idea precisely because of both of them being High Elven Princes (former or otherwise) mounted on Griffons. If the High Elven nobility favours Gryphons as mounts of war, it would make sense & "feel right" to have both Princes mounted on one.

The key would be to both differentiate their battlefield roles as Gryphon riders and to also differentiate their aesthetics. In terms of aesthetics I would do to the Gryphon mount what Tibbles did to the High Elf Manticore in the Racial Class Unit Reskin mod - white & surrounded with lightning sparks all around it. The Storm Prince guy who would be the rider should look... "Dark Elfy"? Silver/White hair wearing a diadem or a crown with some fancy cloak & armour? Sort of an Elric of Melnibone look? (the whole concept even fits with the style of the iconic fighter/sorcerer).

Battlefield role-wise the Storm Priest could basically be the ranged oriented version of its generic, Warlord and Mystical Site counterpart (Crimson). I think a ranged Griffon for the HE has already been suggested before? Its defensive Gryphon perks such as First Strike and Tireless would help the unit later on when it can't avoid melee anymore and speed + flying is always a benefit for ranged units.

Basically it would work well for the same reason how Gryphon Riders with the Dreadnought upgrade that gives them "Fire Pistol" works well. I would make its shock-based ranged attack something that benefits from positioning/mobility like the Eldritch Horror's Shock Breath. He could still turn into an Incarnate-like spirit thing for fluff's sake when killed but that Incarnate in particular shouldn't be too strong in this version. Simply giving it Resurgence to represent this could also work.

While replacing the Cleric with the Storm Priest, replacing Entangle with Call Lightning would be a fair trade. Regular attack should obviously be replaced with Shock Bolts, keep the Healing and voila - we have our classic Storm Priest! I think the AoW II - SM version even had "Hurl Lightning" on Gold rank. This way neither the Initiate (Lightning Shock), Storm Sister (Stunning Touch) nor the Storm Prince (Shock Breath) would be sharing the same Shock-based special attack.
Last edited by Xenosophont; 14 Jul, 2022 @ 6:41am
That Human  [developer] 14 Jul, 2022 @ 7:21am 
I am currently doing some updates for Frostlings, which will be the other half of the update as new ideas come in here. I am currently leaning to make the T4 a Storm Avatar, an elemental of shock and some spirit. Of course, that just be because I find it fun to experiment with underused models, but we'll see. Nothing is set in stone yet.

Call Lightning is way too powerful for a T2, but I was thinking of a ranged version of Stunning Touch.

The issue I do potentially see however is that the Theocrat becomes too shock-focused, meaning a non-HE theocrat could use the units to double as a Sorceror in their use. There should be a shock focus, but also retain the spirit damage that is the focus of the class.
Xenosophont 14 Jul, 2022 @ 7:32am 
I'm afraid an elemental type thing resembling the other elementals would be a bit boring given the Air Elemental in AoWIII with an already heavily Shock/Lightning based design differing from the previous games - wouldn't it make the whole thing feel a bit redundant? A cross between an Elf and an Elemental would be great though - is it feasible to modify the hooded Wraith or Reaper models to create something like that?

An Elven sorcerer/priest model shapeshifting into something funky was also the better way to go with the Incarnate/Elemental route IMHO. As a shapeshifter, one of them could even be spirit-based and the other shock-based in terms of available dmg channels.

Is it possible to create new abilities doing different stuff? A ranged attack doing both shock and spirit dmg (in half) would get the job done but I don't that combination exists in vanilla. In hindsight Call Lightning would be too much for T2 even though the ability itself would be really cool - it could work if the cooldown could be modified to once per battle perhaps or just creating a lesser version of that ability in general for the Priest? Removing Healing in exchange and giving them only the Initiate's Lightning Shock as a regular attack could also be a bit more fair? Ranged Stunning touch would also be cool though - I definitely like that.
Last edited by Xenosophont; 14 Jul, 2022 @ 7:39am
That Human  [developer] 14 Jul, 2022 @ 7:47am 
Nothing is redundant if you do it correctly, it is all a matter of how it performs. In the end it will be shock and to a lesser degree spirit, and abilities differing. I will see what I can do with the models since I could use any of the elementals for this, and Air was never an option. The Frost and Spirit are strong contenders though. That the creature would be Storm incarnate is a given, being able to call down thunderstorms and lightning being how it rolls.

I am still open for other options, however. Once I am done with the model I will post a screenshot and I will see what the feedback will be.

I also have a discord were I document mod progress and listen to feedback. If anyone wants the link just PM me and I will send an invitation.
Xenosophont 14 Jul, 2022 @ 8:13am 
Woah I thought you couldn't mix parts of Elementals because they felt like complete models or something, that's p. cool. The Spirit Elemental in particular could give the whole thing an "Elf Lord/Prince ascended into a godlike form e.g. Storm Incarnate" vibe given how humanoid and even Elvish that model looks. Give it a stormy look using other parts and I can see how it can work very well.

Can't wait to see that screenshot, I'm sure it's gonna be great & it'll be like poetry & it will rhyme and all that :P. Always thought the Incarnate of the previous games *looked* rather boring/uninspiring even though the whole concept of the Incarnate was cool as hell, I'm sure your Storm Prince/Storm Incarnate will kick ass! BTW "Storm Incarnate" has a better ring to it than "Storm Prince".
That Human  [developer] 20 Jul, 2022 @ 6:20am 
The current idea is to use "Storm Host" as the name, as in "The One That Hosts The Storm". "Storm Incarnate" sounds good but may cause some confusion with the Incarnates of the past.

Here is the current model, planned weapon is a staff.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/984835476735266866/999303829319340183/StormHost.png

A demigod of storms taken the form of an elf, he still towers above his peers.
Xenosophont 20 Jul, 2022 @ 6:42am 
Looks great! "Storm Incarnate" still sounds cooler/rolls off the tongue better and I don't think most people would even remember the Incarnates/make the connection nor would they confuse the word in combination with "Storm" but "Storm Host" sounds good as well.

If the two pics represent alternate colour schemes, I like the one on the bottom better (the white-blue one).
That Human  [developer] 20 Jul, 2022 @ 7:03am 
The top one is based on the colorscheme of the Dark Elves from AoW1, while the bottom one is the standard Theocrat one.

In the end I decided not to use an elemental and instead this composite model. Some issues include that the Spirit Elemental got a really goofy facial expression when she is engaged in combat for some reason,and would pull magic from her mouth. Tried the others but couldn't make it work. In the end, I think an elven Demigod works just as well.
Xenosophont 20 Jul, 2022 @ 7:37am 
You could replace the Stormborn now to cut down on the amount of "winged elf" units in the roster which will be 3 of those now if you also count the Exalted. Vanilla + CI (I don't really take the other unit expansion mods into consideration as none of them are on the level of Chivalrous in terms of quality) lacks a non-physical "Arcane Archer" type HE unit using the lightning/physical Arcane Arrows for example.

It would be even better if you are able to create an arrow ability dealing shock/spirit dmg to make it a completely non-physical Archer unit. Some sort of a templar knight/temple/cult dedicated order of warriors (archers) with the "raised by the Storm Priests and disciples of darkest pit" vibe of the Executioners.

I've also thought about on-foot Executioners (heavily Cult oriented iconic unit according to AoW lore) using those High Elf glaive-spears except with a crimson glowing Life Stealing look (if it's possible to give the weapon that effect) but I think High Elves as a whole really need more ranged units to represent their main racial military focus.
Last edited by Xenosophont; 20 Jul, 2022 @ 7:38am
That Human  [developer] 20 Jul, 2022 @ 7:53am 
I will have to hear with the multiplayer community. Replacing units, especially T3-4 ones, can be risky since they are worked into the meta and might be someone's favorite unit to have. The Sacred Dragon was easy since it was banned previously (spirit breath being OP before it was switched).

I may consider the ideas for Chivalrous Additions however, the followup mod that will among other things fill out the remaining MCU structures with units for the vanilla races.
Xenosophont 20 Jul, 2022 @ 8:22am 
Understood. If that new additions mod is going to be a bit freer in adding/changing units w/o mulitplayer considerations etc. then that's great & I'll definitely play that. BTW I've deleted my comment/question in the mod page to remove clutter/not obligate you to give the same answer there since p. much asked the same question there.

Hope the HE Theocrat release is dropping soon!
That Human  [developer] 26 Jul, 2022 @ 9:34pm 
Unit is done! Thread closed and any further discussion should be kept in the Council Hall.
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