Hearts of Iron IV

Hearts of Iron IV

The New Order - Old World Blues (LEGACY VERSION)
armzngunz 19 May, 2019 @ 11:09am
My two cents
1. First of all, my main issue: The atlantropa stuff. I get it that you use it as the catalyst of the eocnomic collapse, but I don't get how draining the meditarranean would cause economic collapse tho.
Thing is, it is literally impossible to drain such a wast body of water, nor would any of the land be usable afterwards, there'd be no economic benefit at all, many important port cities would lose their access to the sea. Wouldn't there be any more realistic options that could serve as the push to drive the economies of the nazis and fascists into the ground?
The entire idea of the germans having to police and supress, aswell as colonise western Russia could even be enough to collapse the reichs economy too, and be more realistic to boot.
I also prefer the old coastline.

2. Why isn't Denmark a Reichskommissariat or a Reichsprotectorat? While it is true that during the war, the danes were allowed to govern themselves, this changed after strikes broke out and the danish government was disbanded, effectively making Denmark fully occupied like every other country the germans invaded.

3. I have read about alot of the lore, but it is never explained why the germans didn't reconquer the areas up to the Urals that were lost when the partisans rose up.

4. Will there be events and such spawning more partisans in Poland, Baltics and Ukraine/Russia?

5. On the wiki, it says that Burgund consists of the Reichskommissariat of Belgien-Nordfrankreich and the Zone interdite, but the Zone interdite was never that big. A more realistic version of the State of Burgundy would insteaf follow the old HRE borders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_interdite

6. Why is Switzerland and Sweden still independent? There were plans to invade Switzerland, and Hitler hated the Swiss state. It seems like that's something that would have been taken care of much earlier after a german victory.

7. What is the status of the Reichskommisariats? Irl, they were only temporary military administrations, which were later planned to be incorporated into the Reich as Reichsgau. Has this changed?

8. How did Turkey get Armenia and western Georgia from Germany? And how did Turkey gain more land in Thrace, which were originally occupied by Bulgaria and designated to be annexed by Bulgaria?

9. I think the number of warlords in Russia should be slightly decreased, many seem to be too small to even support themselves with food and resources. Tbh I'd have prefered an alt-history where Stalin still came to power and kept leading a rumpt state in Siberia.

10. I also feel like a split up UK doesn't leave enough of a threat for Germany. I think a Germany victory without invading the UK could be possible had Halifax become PM instead of Churchill and signed an armistice.

11. The flags. I'm slightly impressed by the different Reichskommissariat flags, but, they feel kinda out of place, as irl, the Reichskommissariats were just military administrations of Germany, and as such, only used the German national flag, the swastika.
Amur and and "Aryan Brotherhood"'s flags also are a bit annoying, in an alt-history where Hitler carried out his plans of ethnically cleansing western Russia, I really doubt Knostantin Rodzaevsky would have used a swastika as his banner.
Same issue with the "Aryan Brotherhood", combining the russian flag (flag of the subhumans according to nazi ideology) with the swastika, is out of place for the time period.

12. Vojovodina should be Hungarian culture, as it already had a sizable hungarian community before the war. during the war, many serbs were expelled, and many hungarians were settled there. After an axis victory, a continuaiton of this policy would ensure a hungarian majority. Greek maceodnia should be greek culture, as the area didn't have much of a slavic majority, at least not after the ottoman times.
Last edited by armzngunz; 19 May, 2019 @ 11:13am
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Showing 1-15 of 21 comments
I’ll answer the questions that I actually have the answers to (not a dev)

1." I don't get how draining the Mediterranean would cause economic collapse tho." Oh, I don't know, maybe the fact that damming it would've been a costly undertaking and that major port cities like Venice would've become useless? Or the fact that Atlantatropa is not the only thing that collapsed the economy?

"Thing is, it is literally impossible to drain such a vast body of water" https://www.quora.com/Would-it-be-possible-to-dam-the-Mediterranean-Sea.

"there'd be no economic benefit at all, many important port cities would lose their access to the sea." First of all, congrats on explaining why the economy crashes. Second of all, Germany went ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ insane after the war and thought that megaprojects like these would help the economy.

"The entire idea of the Germans having to police and suppress, as well as colonize western Russia could even be enough to collapse the Reichs economy too and be more realistic to boot." How do you think the economy crashes? As I said, Atlantatropa wasn't the only reason the economy crashes.

"I also prefer the old coastline." Eh, both are ok.

3. Because the economy crashes and the fact that RK Moscovein (sorry for massacring the name Panzer) is so overextended that Russians are used to fill in the gaps (one of the reasons why RK Moscovein is the most equal of all the RK's.)

5. You'd think the Germans would care?

6. Because the economy crashes.

7. The Reich considers the RK's to be a part of Germany, but they have a lot of autonomy.

8. Turkey was apart of the Axis in TTL.

9. "I think the number of warlords in Russia should be slightly decreased, many seem to be too small to even support themselves with food and resources." the situation in Russia is literally apocalyptic after the collapse, so them being small kinda makes sense. This post explains the warlords fairly well: https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/bpxuiw/handy_guide_to_the_russian_warlords_and_kazakhstan/

"Tbh I'd have preferred an alt-history where Stalin still came to power and kept leading a rump state in Siberia." as a fan of TWR, I have just the upcoming mod for you: https://www.reddit.com/r/twrmod/.

10. " I also feel like a split up UK doesn't leave enough of a threat for Germany." It'll be a threat if free England wins.

" I think a Germany victory without invading the UK could be possible had Halifax become PM instead of Churchill and signed an armistice." That's what happens in TWR except Churchill signs an armistice after a disastrous Dunkirk.

11. they (RK flags) feel kinda out of place, as irl, the Reichskommissariats were just military administrations of Germany, and as such, only used the German national flag, the swastika." they're not military administrations anymore, but colonies.

"Amur and "Aryan Brotherhood"'s flags also are a bit annoying, in an alt-history where Hitler carried out his plans of ethnically cleansing western Russia, I really doubt Knostantin Rodzaevsky would have used a swastika as his banner.
The same issue with the "Aryan Brotherhood", combining the Russian flag (flag of the subhumans according to Nazi ideology) with the swastika, is out of place for the time period." If you look at the Aryan Brotherhood section of the source I posted it says "Aryan Brotherhood- german rper's, think that slavs can become Aryans through skill/deeds." so.. yeah...
Last edited by All_names_were_took; 21 May, 2019 @ 1:07am
armzngunz 20 May, 2019 @ 6:36am 
Originally posted by All_names_were_took:
I answer the questions that I actually have the answers to (not a dev)

1." I don't get how draining the Mediterranean would cause economic collapse tho." Oh, I don't know, maybe the fact that damming it would've been a costly undertaking and that major port cities like Venice would've become useless? Or the fact that Atlantatropa is not the only thing that collapsed the economy?... etc...

1. Ah ok, so magically the nazis just decided to build this tihng for no reason and all other mediterranean countries for no reason allowed it.
On a side note, I wonder why the entire idea of nazis win = atlantropa project is used so much in alt-history when the nazis never had anything to do with such fantasies, considering they had enough lebensraum in the east. The idea was mostly pushed by a random architect before WW2, and he wasn't a nazi.

3. Sounds legit I guess, but a bit wierd considering the nazis were willing to spend astronomical amounts of money on "atlantropa", yet deemed it too expensive to go back to the urals.

4. Well yeah, if partisans pop up around the occupied territories, they will HAVE to care.

6. That makes no sense, Germany would have had plenty of time to invade those countries long before the altantropa thing.

7. But why?

8. But how does that change territorial gains? According to the wiki, Turkey joined later into the war, and at that point, Bulgaria was already occupying western thrace.

9. Yeah I found TWR after making this post, looks very promising.

11. I don't see why that would make them have new flags. Also, technically, during irl WW2, the reichskommissariats were kind of more like quasi-colonial administrative systems, with a reichskommissar, or governor, answering to Hitler.
1. The nazis ITTL were ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ crazy enough to believe that Atlantatropa would be aa economic success and that it would be able to power the entire Mediterranean. And the Mediterranean nations weren’t informed about Atlantatropa (since the nazis ITTL belived they were under them) and when they found out about it it was already too late.

Yeah it is kinda overdone isn’t it? But hey, I’ll let it pass if it shows the afterwffects like this mod, unlike the man in the high castle.

3. Germany doesn’t care about their colonies, as evident by the fact that they sent the leader of RK Moscowein (again, sorry for slaughtering the name Panzer) a “go ♥♥♥♥ yourself” message after he sends a report that asks for more troops after escaping from russian partisans.

4.oops, i meant 5. My bad. Changing it now. Also to answer your question about poland and the baltics/ostland, AI poland always gets taken over by partisans during the german civil war, and ostland can collaspe into a 12 way civil war during the german civil war.

6.The economy crashes in the 50’s. That leaves at least five years before the crash, in which they would’ve been busy building their megaprojects and germanizing, so go figure.

7. Because ruling that much territory with so many different ethnicities that all hate you alone isn’t a good idea?

8. I don’t know much about turkey, sorry.

11.Because having the sane flag as the nation you answer to to confusing? Also never knew that, thanks for the TIL.
armzngunz 20 May, 2019 @ 12:12pm 
Originally posted by All_names_were_took:
1. The nazis ITTL were ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ crazy enough to believe that Atlantatropa would be aa economic success and that it would be able to power the entire Mediterranean. And the Mediterranean nations weren’t informed about Atlantatropa (sinc.....

1. How were they not informed? If millions of tonnes of concrete poured in, thousands of trains and hundreds of thousands of workers poured in, they would definately notice. Why would Germany want to power the mediterranean if they own no land there?
I get that the devs really want this thing to make sense, but it doesn't, at all lol

3. Eh, soudns like a Deus ex machina

6. yeah but they don't need their entire army to do that though

7. Do you think that would stop the nazis from trying?

11. Because they are a part of the same country, it's why the US flag flies in every US state, and every russian state uses the russian flag on government buildings.
(Sorry for taking so long, had stuff to do)

1. I already said why they weren’t informed. And when they did notice, what were they gonna do? The Triumvirate wasn’t a thing back then and the Mediterranean nations weren’t powerful enough to stop them.

3. What? How is that a deus ex machina?

6. Yeah but they’re too busy with other ♥♥♥♥ to care about them.

7. No. That’s why germany considers the RK’s a part of the reich. Think of them like the states.

11....You do realize the states have their own flags, right?
Last edited by All_names_were_took; 21 May, 2019 @ 1:08am
ChrisC2KU 21 May, 2019 @ 6:59am 
Well maybe many of these things where done to make interesting country's top play and help contribute to the dystopian future being portrayed by the mod? +this is an ult future mod so while most of these things are highly improbable it is not by definition impossible.
armzngunz 21 May, 2019 @ 7:01am 
Originally posted by All_names_were_took:
(Sorry for taking so long, had stuff to do)

1. I already said why they weren’t informed. And when they did notice, what were they gonna do? The Triumvirate wasn’t a thing back then and the Mediterranean nations weren’t powerful enough to stop them.

3. What? How is that a deus ex machina?

6. Yeah but they’re too busy with other ♥♥♥♥ to care about them.

7. No. That’s why germany considers the RK’s a part of the reich. Think of them like the states.

11....You do realize the states have their own flags, right?

1. Doesn't make sense, it is impossible to implement such a crazy project without ANYONE knowing, if the US government can figure out that North Korea is building nukes in an underground facility, then I am pretty sure borderguards in Spain, Turkey and anywhere else would notice thousands of trucks and trains crossing the border.

3. In this lore, Germany has no reason to not care about their colonies, other than that the lore or "plot" demands it.

6. Doesn't look like a good excuse tbh.

7. What?

11. Yeah, but they don't fly state flags everywhere, in schools and such. Irl, the RKs didn't have their own flags.
1. This is what one of the dev diaries says: "The draining of the Mediterranean may not have caused so many issues if the Germans had given a proper warning before beginning their construction. They cared little for the results of the project on the Mediterranean nations, and knowing none of them could hope to fight back, the plan went forward." So there you have it.

3. That's because they have their own ♥♥♥♥ to deal with, like, y'know, the economic collapse. Also found the RK Moscowein (finally spelled it correctly) leak: https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/the-hearts-of-iron-megathread.15402/page-166#post-12434579

6. Do you not know what overextension means? Also read the link I posted for more information.

7."The Reichskommisariats (RKs) are colonies directly ruled by the Nazi party, with a lot of autonomy from the central authority in Germania."

11. Well, this isn't IRL isn't it?
Johan 22 May, 2019 @ 11:14pm 
ah your question were great
Cypher 26 May, 2019 @ 8:21pm 
lets make the nazis stupid so that we can drain a body of water. What ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ evil empire is this retarded it makes them look like a collection of lead eaters instead of people who innovated on tech and took over europe. Keeping making excuses its still a terrible idea from a writing standpoint.
Last edited by Cypher; 26 May, 2019 @ 8:22pm
All_names_were_took 26 May, 2019 @ 10:33pm 
"let's make the nazis stupid" ...They are stupid

"it makes them look like a collection of lead eaters instead of people who innovated on tech and took over Europe." Are you seriously glorifying the Nazis right now? The only reason they won is because of hacks. They would've never won in a realistic scenario. (Yes, I know this scenario is unrealistic, but it makes for a fun mod.)

"Keep making excuses its still a terrible idea from a writing standpoint." Yes, it is but that's not the point of this mod is it? Plus this mod's still more realistic than The Man In the High Castle since it doesn't wank off the Nazis.
Cypher 26 May, 2019 @ 11:00pm 
Like it or not the german inovated on tech and warfare and the point of the mod could be to make ice cream for lativa its still a terrible idea.
"Like it or not the Germans innovated on tech and warfare" Yeah and they're the same people who made plans for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1000_Ratte
Made these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_II#Reliability_and_mobility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elefant#Combat_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_VIII_Maus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdtiger#Design
And to try this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bulge

"the point of the mod could be to make ice cream for lativa it's still a terrible idea." what the ♥♥♥♥ are you trying to say?
Last edited by All_names_were_took; 27 May, 2019 @ 2:42am
Cypher 27 May, 2019 @ 8:52am 
im saying just because it was intentional dosnt mean that its a good idea. An if you want to talk about mistake theirs the bob semple tank, the allied failed paratrooper operation, this obomination https://www.historyonthenet.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/M3-lee-camp-polk.jpg, the russian t-35 https://www.historyonthenet.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/M3-lee-camp-polk.jpg,
Last edited by Cypher; 27 May, 2019 @ 9:00am
Lonely Knightess  [developer] 27 May, 2019 @ 4:09pm 
Originally posted by Cypher:
lets make the nazis stupid so that we can drain a body of water. What ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ evil empire is this retarded it makes them look like a collection of lead eaters instead of people who innovated on tech and took over europe. Keeping making excuses its still a terrible idea from a writing standpoint.
Nazis were actually retarded and anyone who thinks they weren't should read a book about the amazingly stupid ♥♥♥♥ they got up to on the reg.
Last edited by Lonely Knightess; 27 May, 2019 @ 4:09pm
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