now you make us feel like White are Innocent.. like you didnt do anything At All

DaKatarn 53 minutes ago
And what about the Chios massacre against Greek people in 1822? In addition to setting fires, the troops were ordered to kill all infants under three years old, all males 12 years and older, and all females 40 and older, except those willing to convert to Islam.

So the "ottomans never did anything like what european" is a joke as much as I don't like these statements and this pointless competition. Ottoman was the agressor and the system was brutal, it's just facts.

So I don't want spam but the limit of 1000 cut my message :).

DaKatarn 54 minutes ago
The brutality of Ottoman invasions is real in throughout central Europa with oppresive laws against dhimmis, rape and a very crual system: the Devshirme.

The Devshirme is litteraly a crual blood tax, the Ottomans abducted Christian children from the Balkans in order to forcibly convert them to Islam and then indoctrinate them against their own people. The janissaries are the most well-known aspect of this system.

And I'm skipping over the habit of making pyramids of skulls and the crucifixion of young Christian women.

I agree that this system was effective and even led to the creation of a European slave elite, but it was a particularly cruel and cynical system with no equivalent.

DaKatarn 55 minutes ago
@Flamboyant

Are you kidding me?

The fall of Constantinople was a real butchery. The Ottoman Empire was a Damocles Sword against Europa during all Modern Times with agressive expansion untill the battle of Vienna in 1683.

Ottoman Empire was the heart of a big slavery system against Africans AND EUROPEANS.
The Ottoman trade lasted from the 13th century to the 19th century with razzias all around the Mediterean Sea even Scandinavia.

White women even children was enslaved and sold for the harems in the Ottoman Empire, a large piracy piracy dominating the seas to supply slaves until the Battle of Lepanto, Khayr ad-Din Barberousse was the most "famous" Ottoman corsair in this trade and he became the leader of the Ottoman navy. A slave trade of about 3 million slaves according to historians.

Everchosen of Chaos 1 hour ago
Enough said m8 :P

Flamboyant Schemer61 [author] 1 hour ago
@DaKatarn

Well ottomans never did anything like what europeans did to africans or american-indians and altho ottoman empire was at a horrible shape at the 19th century, at 16th century it was actually the best place to live not cuz that ottoman turks are "superior" to others, but they wanted to form an empire that last longer than their previous ones (like timurids) where you try to enslave or butcher the places you conquer. Adopting and tolerancing local cultures and religions is a very effective policy that formed an empire that lived for 600 years. This is simple logic and ignoring this is just wrong, sorry. Again, its all policy tho, they had tolerance for the same reason germans or swedes have higher emphasize on human rights today, cuz it works. And please look at more unbiased sources before writing something like that. There are bunch of sources from italian merchants in that period and even Machiavelli himself explains this in prince.

DaKatarn 4 hours ago
@Flamboyant Schemer61

Horribly racist? Ho come on, Warhammer is based about XVIe century context and in this context Ottoman Empire is a real evil threat for Europa-Old World.

No more :)

Sorry but half of what you say is simply wrong like the devshirme system. It was a ssytem where most of the children were getting the BEST education on earth and getting at high positions on the developed empire at those times. Of course it wasn't perfect and not very effective for the ottomans themselves, but there are several sources proofs that people aree actually trying to give their children to there which later become a huge source of nepotism in the empires later years. And about hat slavery, no they weren't selling children to the Harem and that system u hate so much is actually coming from the Byzantium court. Ottomans (like every other empire in history) wasn't perfect or superior. They just used what they have more effectively and whetever or not you like it, they were the best between 15th-17th to live in. Thats why they were able to take huge lands easily and administrate there. Cuz racism wasn't a thing back then guys lets be honest it's an invention of the french revolutionary era and if you give people better rights and less taxes (like ottomans did to the conquered lands) they will like you more then their former overlords

If you compare Constantinople with the sacking of rome several times by other christians then well, you will be surprised. Sadly, all this terrorist ♥♥♥♥ and populists like erdogan bolsonaro trump etc. are just feeding the racist flames so called "western world" has at its heart especially in balkans. But all these are jsut simple facts that modern day "westerners" are getting more and more alienated to their proud cultures and thinkers who were actually opposed to those kind of empty lies and were actually writing. I mean I get it you don't know much history or haven't made a cross readingthat the case for most people and you may not know people like Caterino Zeno or Ambrogio Contarini but how come you doN't know machiavelli and spam big words like this? I'm not trying to be rude just trying to explain please read all this with a calm head and please stop spamming these messages before doing some real reseacrh about them cuz right now they are just a joke.

Oh and P.S. what ANY (not just ottomans) ancient empire did can't even come cross to what western europeens did to the Africans and Indigenous peoples of the Americas which is still going on and those pricky westerners are still thinking that they are all white and ♥♥♥♥, pretty victims and clean about history and everyone else is just a mass murederer. Just do some real reading corss-reading not just listen to youtube garbage if but even IF you jsut use internet, you can simply find how much massacres have been done to ottomans and later turks in balkans. I'm not saying any of these are good, just compare everything and you can clearly see why people are feeling insecure and victimized by western cultures all around the world and why hating them so much. It's always wiser to try to understand each side of the storyy then yelling unrelated people just cuzthey are telling the truth.

Not just "araby" ♥♥♥♥ I doN't want to say everything but yeah, pretty much EVERYTHING in warhammer universe is Hitler's childhood dream from araby to trying to relate skaven to jews. If anyone other than a westerner have done that kind of a universe it would have taken huge criticism all around western world. (which it should)

First I see a terrible bad argument and ideological statement in the title.

Please can you tell me where there's any racist language in my writing? Don't follow your denied is racist?

"when you want to kill your dog, they say he's got rabies" Sorry but this time is over, it's not an argument. It's an insult and it doesn't make you feel any better.

The second mistake in your mindset is the excuse by comparison. It's not a competition of the greatest victim or the most terrible empire.

The facts are, since the begining, Otoman Empire was the agressor and Europa fought very hard to fend off its invasions until the 19th century.

The invasion of Greece and Balkans byt Ottoman are also a "good things"?

Well telling all this things which doesn't have any base as ı explained is an insult to history and pretty much tens of millions of people who thinks ottomans as their heritage is an insult itself but I was jsut trying to say that the comments are empty and racist not you but since its only you it seemed like its attacking you and I'm changing it. english isn't my neutral language and even tho I may have a point here I shouldn't have done that. I wrote that in my comments to see everyone my intentions too and sorry again changing the title now.

"The second mistake in your mindset is the excuse by comparison. It's not a competition of the greatest victim or the most terrible empire."


I agree that one wrong make another one right and thats my point most of the hatred against ottomans is because of their worngs but not all they did was wrong and comparing another culture who did horrible atrocities against them is an easier way to find that the reason of those biased campaign against ottomans is cuz of they are muslim and belong to a much different culture than europeens which is mostly not acceptable by them sorry.

"The facts are, since the begining, Otoman Empire was the agressor and Europa fought very hard to fend off its invasions until the 19th century."

But Russia attacked holy roman empire jsut as ottomans did. Same goes with france etc. Its the age of empires and actually after the second vienna ottomans get attacked for 3 centuries mate. Also, you can still see those kind of actions by us and russia. Actually that was a huge problematic mindset for even soviet russia in 20th century.

The invasion of Greece and Balkans byt Ottoman are also a "good things"?
Not"good" or "evil" every empire invaded new lands but if you say that they genocided greeks when they get there well... thats not true. And they didn't do it not because they were fairy cool people cuz they needed them. Empires who try to "conquer"(i.e. make those new lands THEIR territories) succeded while others didn't.

So with this argument you can understand that millions of Europeans from the Balkans and Eastern Europe as far as Austria can also feel insulted when you minimise what they have suffered for centuries.

I know that Erdogan currently has a rather revisionist policy of history, but I don't want to talk about politics.

You're a bit rough with the Warhammer universe and your analysis of the Skavens is very borderline and disgusting.

I love this universe because I just find it very historical-dark fantasy and has a great aesthetic and shows the European soul.

I'm agree with you on many points but the initial setup was Ottoman Empire is the agressor and a terrible threat for Europa during Modern Times, it's fact.

No less, no more.

I can't see your message it says:
"This comment is awaiting analysis by our automated content check system. It will be temporarily hidden until we verify that it does not contain harmful content (e.g. links to websites that attempt to steal information)."

But anyways, I think I explained everything I believe with even some proofs from western sources. There are bunch of good reading about ottoman history too and approaching a historic phenomenon wheter it be a culture, an event or a nation, its always better to make some honest cross-readings. Especially if you have so much sources.

"So with this argument you can understand that millions of Europeans from the Balkans and Eastern Europe as far as Austria can also feel insulted when you minimise what they have suffered for centuries."

I'm not saying "they got what they deserved" no. But they got invaded by romans too. If you just angry about people getting invade then criticise EVERYONE who does that and then compare HOW they have done it. Ottomans were more tolerant and thats where they got their power from. Again, that was jsut a working policy and many empires did that thoughout history.

"I know that Erdogan currently has a rather revisionist policy of history, but I don't want to talk about politics."

His vision has nothing to do with mine and who wouldn't say what I said.

"You're a bit rough with the Warhammer universe and your analysis of the Skavens is very borderline and disgusting."

Have you seen a nazi propaganda newspapaer? Technologically advanced, greedy and good with money vermins getting smashed by german hammers. Yes, its disgusting and yeah I'm criticising it not cherishing it like everyone else should.

"I love this universe because I just find it very historical-dark fantasy and has a great aesthetic and shows the European soul."

Yeah the thing I wrote just above shouldn't be "the European soul"

I'm talking only about Ottoman Empire because the setup of Warhammer is XVIe European century and not Antiquity. Even if a "Roman Empire"exists in the universe of warhamer: the Remean Empire.

For the skaven, It's very rude and strange but okey.

So who are the twisted cultists of Chaos? The Leftists?

Lol its a game that takes certain ideas from real world history. Who gives a ♥♥♥♥?