The basic jabs need a little bit more range. Otherwise, good character.

Solid character overall, but i think that Bair might need a few less hitboxes if it's meant to be a strong Bair. If it's a multihit, maybe a little less knockback?

In general, I'd make more of his moves yoyo based such as up air as he lacks any sort of strong air game. Maybe make up air like simon/ richter up air. Ftilt feels like it should be an uptilt but i kind of like his current up tilt as it doesn't hit too far up whereas ftilt should probably be like side special but hit forward like fsmash. another issue is that too many moves send upwards yet he lacks the aerials to take advantage of them. Also neutral special never really kills so I'd just make it so that it always stuns and leave the killing to f strong. F strong should then have more range and possibly be faster. Side special also has weird hitboxes where hitting with the tip just does nothing. His counter also doesn't hit too often and it doesn't benefit you much when it does.

For a combo-based character, Yoyo's moves are weirdly terrible for combos. His aerials have too much ending lag, his ground moves are too small (especially with ftilt being noticeably smaller than jab for some reason?), and nearly none of his moves actually reliably combo into each other, even on characters with bad DI. His gimmick is basically useless as a result, and it ends up making him a character who does a ton of damage through raw hits and then can't set up a kill. I'd say, lower his damage and knockback on most of his normals, and correct his hitbox placement to be more reasonable (why does nair hit so far above and in front of him?)

Also, Yoyo's feet can't seem to decide where they want to be on the ground. They constantly shift forwards and backwards, making him look like his feet are on wheels spinning at ultra high speeds. You may want to adjust this, because aside from visual problems it can also make his hurtbox very inconsistent.

please remove the jump noise, its annoying lmao. great character tho

Although Yo-yo is supposed to be a combo based character, pulling off actual combos with him seems to be a bit too difficult. Maybe try to change his moves to have less knockback or ending lag so it's easier to combo.

Honestly, just being able to aim neutral b or side b would be great tbh

this is a pretty good start but I think some of Yoyo's hitboxes need work. The biggest example is his dair, since it doesnt connect if you shorthop it on characters like Sylvannos

Originally posted by Trashisme:

Honestly, just being able to aim neutral b or side b would be great tbh

You CAN angle side B. Hold up or down during the initial cast to do so.

This is one of my favorite custom characters ever added to this game. Unlike a large majority of the custom characters, Yoyo is actually really close to being balanced. I've spent a couple days labbing this guy, and with a couple of tweaks he could fit right in to the base cast. He's super polished (things like the different options on side B and charge options for neutral B stand out as great examples of this), animations look tight, hitboxes make sense, size makes sense- he's almost perfect. That being said, I think that there's a couple of things that could really help him be the best he could be.


First of all, he does too much damage overall, especially on his best combo moves. Specifically, you can get roughly 60% off of a single early combo really easily, which is a bit strong for a combo character to have access to. Side special > Down tilt > Up tilt > Up tilt > Up air > Back/Forward air can kill from zero with right setups, and is pretty consistent- although this is also an issue with his back and forward aerials, which I will get to later. The very best combo moves do as much damage as his other moves, which shouldn't be the case. My suggestions for damage changes is as follows:

- Side special: Second hit damage reduced from 6% > 4%.
This move does 8% when both hits connect, hits a huge area fairly quickly, and is a bread and butter combo starter and maintainer.

- Down tilt: Damage reduced from 6% > 4%.
There's almost no reason to use this move already, since it sets up into other moves, and is free out of Side special.

- Up air: Damage reduced from 7% > 5%.
This move is fairly similar to Ori's in that it can juggle into itself. Except it's faster. And unlike Ori this isn't Yoyo's best move. Only downside comparatively is that it can't really kill off the top, but Yoyo has tools to make up for that.

- Back air: Last hit sourspot reduced from 7% > 4%, sweetspot reduced from 9% > 6%.
Holy cow this move is fun, but dear god it does too much damage. You can land cancel the first 2 hits to combo into something else, but they do a sober 4% together, which isn't bad at all. However, you can continue to combo even with the last hit, especially when sourspotted, and when you do it does SO much damage.

- Up tilt: Damage reduced from 7% > 4%.
Honestly this move feels out of place in his kit. Up tilt has almost no range, but if you can combo into it it will hit twice almost every time, filling up your combo meter and dealing 14%, basically for free too as you can combo almost every move from his kit out of it. Ideally, I'd prefer something like a smaller, weaker, and quicker version of shovel knight's Up tilt, because Yoyo really doesn't have any grounded anti-air options, but this is all I could realistically ask for.


Additionally, his meter mechanic and smash attacks seem to be less than useful due to 2 moves in particular:

- Back air: Base knockback on sweetspot reduced, knockback growth slightly reduced.
The sweetspot of backair is such a godly option for killing at any point in the game. It's understandable that this move should be a kill option later on in a stock, but it can reliably kill at 70% on most characters.

- Forward air: Base knockback reduced.
Very similar to Back air, Forward air can also kill absurdly early, even as low as 35%. It's just too strong of a spike early on.


There's also a weird thing with his Side special- the neutral and up tilted versions of the move do not stun you when parried. It makes the move way too free to use, since you'll almost never get punished. For some reason, the down tilted version will still stun you if parried, making me think this is a bug. Thus, my suggestion:

- Side special: Neutral and high tilted Side special will stun Yoyo when parried.


A couple of other various nerfs I would suggest include:

- Down air: Spike knockback reduced/ direction changed.
It's just another thing that makes his kit a little overloaded, and he already has a perfectly serviceable spike on his forward air. His down air also has almost no startup, which makes it even more difficult to deal with the additional spike.

- Up special: Charged up special puts Yoyo into helpless.
Yes, I know it was designed that way, but it gives him even more chase and follow up combo potential on an already strong character. It would also make using the uncharged version more worthwhile.


Finally, with all these nerfs, some under used moves and features could receive some much needed buffs:

- Down special: Upon successful counter, teleport Yoyo in front of the character before executing counterattack.
Honestly, I love his counter and it looks really cool, but it's very inconsistent in the air, which is where Yoyo is going to be 95% of the time he is using this. This will help make it more consistent, and would also look super cool.

- Jab: Final hit has less knockback growth and hits at a lower angle.
Currently, there's almost no reason to go for his full jab combo when canceling it into Down tilt or Up tilt is more favorable. If the third hit hit more forward instead of up, it would set up for a momentum-based horizontal combo, instead of being the worst of like 3 different options for a vertical combo.

- Meter: Lasts longer after getting a 5 hit combo.
Now that Yoyo's Back air is more under control, we can indirectly buff his fairly weak smash attacks. If you achieve a 5 hit combo off edge, and charge a smash attack as a read to the opponent's recovery, the combo meter will expire before they get back. This makes smash attacks more viable, since the meter won't expire as easily during their slow startups.


Finally, one last suggestion unrelated to balance:

- Yoyo: Default color from color 1 > color 2.
I know that it isn't his canonical color, but it's very close, and because Yoyo is mostly monochrome, his dark default color blends him into the background of many stages. Color 2 is very close to his normal colors but his bright body makes it much harder to lose him on the stages.


I want to say once more, I really like this character and can't recommend him enough. I'm only able to make these suggestions because this character is already so close to being balanced (I wouldn't know where to start with most characters on the workshop). If the person who developed this character reads this, thanks for making my new go-to character, I can't wait to see what you make next. The rainbow skin is awesome. Feel free to message me if you have any questions.

Originally posted by SBThunder:

Although Yo-yo is supposed to be a combo based character, pulling off actual combos with him seems to be a bit too difficult. Maybe try to change his moves to have less knockback or ending lag so it's easier to combo.

Originally posted by American Trail Mix:

For a combo-based character, Yoyo's moves are weirdly terrible for combos. His aerials have too much ending lag, his ground moves are too small (especially with ftilt being noticeably smaller than jab for some reason?), and nearly none of his moves actually reliably combo into each other, even on characters with bad DI. His gimmick is basically useless as a result, and it ends up making him a character who does a ton of damage through raw hits and then can't set up a kill. I'd say, lower his damage and knockback on most of his normals, and correct his hitbox placement to be more reasonable (why does nair hit so far above and in front of him?)

Also, Yoyo's feet can't seem to decide where they want to be on the ground. They constantly shift forwards and backwards, making him look like his feet are on wheels spinning at ultra high speeds. You may want to adjust this, because aside from visual problems it can also make his hurtbox very inconsistent.

Did you play the same character I did? You can fast fall to land cancel all of your aerials, and Side special is an extremely good combo starter. His non-yoyo based ground moves can afford to be short ranged since his Side special pulls people into him, and his normals are really fast to compensate. Try something like Side Special > Down tilt > Up tilt > Up tilt > Up air > Up air > RAR Back air and you can kill extremely early. It took me a bit of time to get used to him, but his combo game is very strong, as is his disadvantage state, with only his neutral being a bit weak. His confirms are not traditional confirms, but he definitely has them (one of my favorites being uncharged neutral special > wavedash > Up smash). You might just need to experiment more, specifically looking at setups into sweetspots on his Forward air and Back air.

I agree that his gimmick is a bit weak, but I honestly think it's that way to keep him check at the moment. If his combo meter lasted longer in his current state, he'd be really hard to deal with.

Originally posted by Pringlepop:

This is one of my favorite custom characters ever added to this game. Unlike a large majority of the custom characters, Yoyo is actually really close to being balanced. I've spent a couple days labbing this guy, and with a couple of tweaks he could fit right in to the base cast. He's super polished (things like the different options on side B and charge options for neutral B stand out as great examples of this), animations look tight, hitboxes make sense, size makes sense- he's almost perfect. That being said, I think that there's a couple of things that could really help him be the best he could be.

Not quoting the whole message because wow it's practically a book, but I wanted to start off by thanking you for putting the time in to think about my character so much, and I'm glad you're enjoying them.

I am of the philosophy that more small balance changes are far better that one large one, and while I am going to pick and choose what changes to make in this upcoming patch, I will keep the others in mind for future patches.

Side B being unparryable IS a bug and one I knew about, but until recently I didn't know how I'd fix it. It will be changed.

Damage on normals is rather high for a combo character, I'll agree with that.

In the patch I've been working on, Counter has already been fixed on airborne foes to keep them in the air until the counterattack can actually connect.

The meter change is actually an interesting one, because I actually recently nerfed the duration before it goes back to 0. (It was 65 frames plus an additional 5 frames for each hit in the combo minus one done so far, max of 5. It was found way too easy to keep a ""combo"" going even when it really felt like it shouldn't have counted as one. The additional 5 frames per stack were reduced to 4 in the recent patch)

Anyway, thank you for giving what seem to be very thoughtful suggestions, and I hope you continue to enjoy Yoyo!

Originally posted by Nackles42:

Originally posted by Pringlepop:

This is one of my favorite custom characters ever added to this game. Unlike a large majority of the custom characters, Yoyo is actually really close to being balanced. I've spent a couple days labbing this guy, and with a couple of tweaks he could fit right in to the base cast. He's super polished (things like the different options on side B and charge options for neutral B stand out as great examples of this), animations look tight, hitboxes make sense, size makes sense- he's almost perfect. That being said, I think that there's a couple of things that could really help him be the best he could be.

Not quoting the whole message because wow it's practically a book, but I wanted to start off by thanking you for putting the time in to think about my character so much, and I'm glad you're enjoying them.

I am of the philosophy that more small balance changes are far better that one large one, and while I am going to pick and choose what changes to make in this upcoming patch, I will keep the others in mind for future patches.

Side B being unparryable IS a bug and one I knew about, but until recently I didn't know how I'd fix it. It will be changed.

Damage on normals is rather high for a combo character, I'll agree with that.

In the patch I've been working on, Counter has already been fixed on airborne foes to keep them in the air until the counterattack can actually connect.

The meter change is actually an interesting one, because I actually recently nerfed the duration before it goes back to 0. (It was 65 frames plus an additional 5 frames for each hit in the combo minus one done so far, max of 5. It was found way too easy to keep a ""combo"" going even when it really felt like it shouldn't have counted as one. The additional 5 frames per stack were reduced to 4 in the recent patch)

Anyway, thank you for giving what seem to be very thoughtful suggestions, and I hope you continue to enjoy Yoyo!

No problem, it makes sense that you would want to make slow changes to see how they feel. I definitely didn't expect you to put in all of my suggestions, I was more or less throwing around some ideas.

P.S. One suggestion I forgot to cover, if you want to keep the combo changes the same, I might suggest increasing knockback growth on forward smash a little bit so it is a better kill option.

There are numbers showing up above and below the character, I believe referencing the frame of his animation. Definitely shouldn't be there. Just so you are aware

whoops, must have forgot to remove debug stuff, thank you!