His vertical recovery is a bit bad, his air jump is pretty short, maybe giving him an extra jump could help him.
Another thing, if he glides after a normal jump and jumps again he cannot glide again, he should be able to continue gliding, not with a new full glide, but with the time left of the first glide, does that make sense?

Originally posted by Delta_88:

His vertical recovery is a bit bad, his air jump is pretty short, maybe giving him an extra jump could help him.
Another thing, if he glides after a normal jump and jumps again he cannot glide again, he should be able to continue gliding, not with a new full glide, but with the time left of the first glide, does that make sense?

Thanks for the feedback! I'm glad you brought this up because these were actually intentional design decisions. Multiple jumps were considered (and even planned at one point), but the recovery was TOO good, ya know? The uspecial is super safe and can be used to cover a considerable amount of vertical distance without much risk of being punished (as long as you manage your energy correctly). Since the horizontal recovery is so good, the vertical recovery cannot also be super good as people would struggle to take stocks off GK since he is on the heavy side.

As for the "resuming hover" suggestion, it was not implemented because the hover mechanic was based pretty much entirely off of Peach/Daisy from SSBU.

Do these seem like fair points to you?

Originally posted by Jekernot:

Originally posted by Delta_88:

His vertical recovery is a bit bad, his air jump is pretty short, maybe giving him an extra jump could help him.
Another thing, if he glides after a normal jump and jumps again he cannot glide again, he should be able to continue gliding, not with a new full glide, but with the time left of the first glide, does that make sense?

Thanks for the feedback! I'm glad you brought this up because these were actually intentional design decisions. Multiple jumps were considered (and even planned at one point), but the recovery was TOO good, ya know? The uspecial is super safe and can be used to cover a considerable amount of vertical distance without much risk of being punished (as long as you manage your energy correctly). Since the horizontal recovery is so good, the vertical recovery cannot also be super good as people would struggle to take stocks off GK since he is on the heavy side.

As for the "resuming hover" suggestion, it was not implemented because the hover mechanic was based pretty much entirely off of Peach/Daisy from SSBU.

Do these seem like fair points to you?

Yeah, i get it, fair enough
The character is pretty fun indeed, im already kind of maining it :P

The concept is very cool, but the energy is very hard to manage

Originally posted by EndlessSpam:

"Costs are way too high. He is propably most telegraphed character in workshop and most of his abilities miss. I understand nerfs but increasing costs of his moves is really not a good idea."

The energy costs were increased based on feedback from higher level players in tournament. The energy costs have always been a point of concern because the play style of the user will ultimately dictate their balance.

For example, a rush-down heavy player will easily be able to gain energy by attacking the opponent and won't have a need to even use the energy based attacks in most situaitons. A campy-zoner type player will want to rely on these moves, and thus will want the cost lower and passive regain higher.

I completely agree that these values will always need tweaking. But I unfortunately think that it would be impossible to make everyone happy.

On that note, what energy costs would you suggest? Please let me know and I'll try them out! Total energy is 100 pts.

Thanks for reply. From what i seen his neutral game is below avarage. Most of his moves comes with a large lag even if their damage isn't bad. I think so far his neutral game is fine. Problem is that it didn't rewards enought for such weak specials. They're all are extremaly easy to avoid and have long startups.
I think they cost overall isn't much of a problem. Making character solely based on their specials is a wrong decision obviously, but i think that his neutrals should reward more energy. That being said, i'm not that good when it comes to balancing and my english isn't great either so i won't elaborate too much.

The point is, all these changes are really huge. I played many times against my brother who love playing Gatekeeper and while he was overtuned after a while his specials started to be really easy to avoid and read. I think you should prevent them from being spamable, more than making them frustrating to miss ( which isn't rare, they're all slow and telegraphed ). Those balance changes shows that everything about Gatekeeper was bad, which personally i think was not the case.

Originally posted by EndlessSpam:

Thanks for reply. From what i seen his neutral game is below avarage. Most of his moves comes with a large lag even if their damage isn't bad. I think so far his neutral game is fine. Problem is that it didn't rewards enought for such weak specials. They're all are extremaly easy to avoid and have long startups.
I think they cost overall isn't much of a problem. Making character solely based on their specials is a wrong decision obviously, but i think that his neutrals should reward more energy. That being said, i'm not that good when it comes to balancing and my english isn't great either so i won't elaborate too much.

The point is, all these changes are really huge. I played many times against my brother who love playing Gatekeeper and while he was overtuned after a while his specials started to be really easy to avoid and read. I think you should prevent them from being spamable, more than making them frustrating to miss ( which isn't rare, they're all slow and telegraphed ). Those balance changes shows that everything about Gatekeeper was bad, which personally i think was not the case.

Thanks for the detailed response! I'll definitely consider your comments and see what can be done about this for the next patch. I do have to mention that with these changes he was legalized in certain tournament venues, so I also have to consider the balance within the competitive community.

I hope you and your brother still enjoy playing with him though! If you have any more comments, feel free to reply! Jesli łatwiej ci będzie, możesz odpowiedzieć po polsku :)

Maybe it is just me but this character is not for me. I really enjoyed it. What prevent me from enjoying it is the meter system. I understand maybe the author did not want people to spam those special and strong moves. Hence introduced the meter system. However, the problem I have is that it charges at a very slow pace and by the time the meter bar is empty there is not much you can do as strong and special moves heavily rely on it. I will say more than 60% of the moveset rely on that bar. Because of that, I almost left with no option to defend myself when the bar is empty. Other than that, it is a great design tho and I thank the author for the time invested in this project. :(

Maybe it is just me but this character is not for me. I really enjoyed it. What prevent me from enjoying it is the meter system. I understand maybe the author did not want people to spam those special and strong moves. Hence introduced the meter system. However, the problem I have is that it charges at a very slow pace and by the time the meter bar is empty there is not much you can do as strong and special moves heavily rely on it. I will say more than 60% of the moveset rely on that bar. Because of that, I almost left with no option to defend myself when the bar is empty. Other than that, it is a great design tho and I thank the author for the time invested in this project. :(

Meter usage should only pertain to specials.
Neutral special should consume a third of the meter, instead of half.
Side special detonation timer should be decreased.And some sort of node, or indicator,of it's location should be present when they are active.
Maybe consider increasing up b's movement speed some. Or, slow down the drain rate, if you plan on keeping the movement speed the same.

Nair, Jabs, and Strongs shouldn't consume meter.
Back air endlag should be cut down. Maybe only a few frames slower than fair. The excessive endlag, in tandem with the current flawed meter, and slow recovery, heavily limits Keeper's offstage presence. As you often have to stop to consider whether you'll be able to make it back.
Up air is too slow to be of any good, in most practical scenarios. Significantly decrease start up. This also would allow short hop up air to be used as a combo starter/extender.
Also, aerial landing lag values may need to be reduced. With the exception of nair.

I would like a version (like an alt skin) with NO energy because half the time when an ability is charging, You are completely helpless and open, And almost all of your moves (or at least the good ones) Use a TON of energy, and energy is slow recharging

I've seen GK's full moveset, & I agree with BassNaut that UAir is too slow. Also, maybe make GK's specials a bit less telegraphed, & make moves that use meter cost a bit less? I'd like NSpec to aim wherever GK's looking on starting the charging, somewhat like the boss version. I mean, GK's already looking at the opponent to begin with, why not make it automatically aim against where GK's looking at upon startup, with no directional charging laser pointer-esque telegraphs, just the charging flash & Boss GK-level startup frames? It'd be fitting for GK, as Boss GK's laser shoots wherever they're looking at when the attack starts charging, & it would also make the opponent have to be aware of GK's position & moves a bit more. Maybe GK's Final Smash could be a laser that sweeps across the screen, forcing the opponent to dodge through it? Also, I feel that the player should have a bit more control of the "triple falling shot/big-ball attack" special move (the one where GK shoots straight up, then the shots come down, either in a 3-shot burst or a huge ball.) I also think that specials, in general, should be less telegraphed, as opponents are almost guaranteed to be able to dodge these moves, with hardly any thought or effort on the opponent's part.