Mh, to me it was a question of "how to make re-gaining source a in-combat balanced thing according to our latest experience". :)

We're having two mages, one ranger and a warrior-ish class.

The actual mod combination we use in MP has the 8AP mod active, with vanilla CD times for every skill. The game mechanics are vanilla as well, so given that it can be a pain in the A*s in long term, as we experienced, so we use every aspect the game delivers for different classes. The fire mage uses the snail as an addition, the necromancer uses (mod) her summon skill to get a caster skeletton, the warrior/Ivan is calling his wolve and the overall group (except the two of the lore characters) uses the protection sphere regularly.

In this constellation I'd feel the SP too easy to reproduce. I've trained this balance acting with a lot of Game Master sessions in different roleplay games with players, but in the end it's just my opinion. =)

Originally posted by Vlej:

Mh, to me it was a question of "how to make re-gaining source a in-combat balanced thing according to our latest experience". :)

We're having two mages, one ranger and a warrior-ish class.

The actual mod combination we use in MP has the 8AP mod active, with vanilla CD times for every skill. The game mechanics are vanilla as well, so given that it can be a pain in the A*s in long term, as we experienced, so we use every aspect the game delivers for different classes. The fire mage uses the snail as an addition, the necromancer uses (mod) her summon skill to get a caster skeletton, the warrior/Ivan is calling his wolve and the overall group (except the two of the lore characters) uses the protection sphere regularly.

In this constellation I'd feel the SP too easy to reproduce. I've trained this balance acting with a lot of Game Master sessions in different roleplay games with players, but in the end it's just my opinion. =)

@Vlej
I understand. Game-balance is, by its very nature, subjective. The ideal solution would be to make the mod configurable and let the player decide. I'll see if I can implement something like that but I can't promise anything yet. What would be appropriate costs for these skills in your opinion? It'll help me re-evaluate the default costs.

As a last resort, I can also send you a tailor-made version of the mod. :)
Modifying stats takes like one minute tops (50 seconds of which are just waiting for the editor to load). But I'll try the mod-config first so that anyone can adjust the balance as they see fit.

Interesting discussion guys. I personally play on Tactician (on my first playthrough.. it's rough) Due to the perceived significant advantages that SP give at lower levels (Going through act 2 at the moment) and how the ability to get source often determines whether i win a fight or not, or in a lot of cases even attempt a fight, having source or easier access to it is somewhat of a 'win button' to me, but the convenience of not having to go to ship or find a source fountain is a good trade-off, because its just tedious to do it when it's a generic/linear action, so being able to use a spell for source is pretty neat in that regard.

My main point here being depending what mode you play, if playing Tactician for a harder game, having source can really throw a decline in difficulty to you if you otherwise wanted a challenge. But how to balance being able to weight the convenience?

Maybe an 'out of combat only' option/variant?

Thanks for your mod once again, looking forward to seeing other mods you come up with and any changes etc to this one.

I played DOS1:EE on Classic for about 3 hours before switching to Tactician and I've never played either game without it since. Tactician is why I love the Original Sin series. DOS 2's Tactician starts strong but falls off faster than DOS 1's IMO, the game gets significantly easier after Act 1. So much so, that I'd recommend a scaling mod on subsequent playthroughs, to always keep enemies 1/2/3 (or more) levels above you.

I don't want to spoil the experience for you but you can start almost every fight with max source even in vanilla. You have access to source-fountains for the majority of the game and for the short sections you don't, you can use Source-Vampirism or Purge. You can regenerate source in-combat in vanilla by consuming Source-Orbs (1SP for 1AP - which is a better conversion rate when compared to this mod. Not to mention Five-Star-Diner doubles the effect, 2SP for 1AP). You can also use scrolls and never worry about SP again, since source-scrolls don't cost source-points. Source-Orbs are expensive but gold is generally not an issue once you get to Driftwood (either pickpocket or mass-produce charm-arrows or both). Basically, Vanilla DOS2 allows you to do these SP shenanigans regardless. Sadly, source skills (some more than others) are "I win buttons" and nothing in vanilla (other than your own self-control) stops you from using them every fight.

There are plenty of mods that regenerate source outside of combat. I'd infact recommend the bedroll restores source mods over this one in that case - you don't need skills (out-of-combat, stats are pointless and animations take time). Also, instead of enforcing an out-of-combat requirement for everyone, I prefer that the players have the choice. You can simply ignore them in-combat if you wish. I play with several house rules like this, I only rest in "safe" locations; avoid buffing before fights; only respec to fix mistakes; artificially limit the use of certain skills and items etc.

Can't wait to show you guys the other stuff I'm working on.

Originally posted by Hunter-Ghost-27:

@Vlej
I understand. Game-balance is, by its very nature, subjective. The ideal solution would be to make the mod configurable and let the player decide. I'll see if I can implement something like that but I can't promise anything yet. What would be appropriate costs for these skills in your opinion? It'll help me re-evaluate the default costs.

Mh, okay, but remember: you asked for it and it's just my conclusion/experience. :) And please don't take it as a critic of your effort here, it remains an awsome idea with a lot of potential, (and ideas as you mentioned your planned features) no matter what I'm suggesting additionally.


That said I'd start with:

Option one: "Instant-Karma" version

- 3AP @ Channel Source; [Adding a perma-weak debuff to the caster]*
- 4AP @ Channel Source, Greater; [Adding a perma-weak & -slow debuff to the caster]*
- 5AP @ Channel Source, Master; [Adding a perma-knock-down and -warm debuff to the caster]*

Option two: "Power, at a price" version

- 4AP @ Channel Source; [Adding a perma-cursed debuff to the caster]*
- 5AP @ Channel Source, Greater; [Adding a perma-blinded debuff to the caster]*
- 6AP @ Channel Source, Master; [Adding a perma-silenced debuff to the caster]*

If there'd be any if/else-clause (tbh I don't know the code myself) that'd make it possible to only cast the spell when in combat, then I'd say about 4 APs would be totally okay.
So the third one only makes sense if there's a "In Combat"-check available for using the spell. (If not, it's better to stick with Option 1 or 2):

Option three: "Combat energy reserves" version

- If in active combat stance, then unlock {spell [Channel Source]; [Channel Source, Greater]; [Channel Source, Master]}
- 4AP @ Channel Source [No debuff]
- 5AP @ Channel Source, Greater [No debuff]
- 6AP @ Channel Source, Master [No debuff]

*) = May be dispelled the usual way with its counterpart-spell.

The actual available modification in this mod in this reflection would be either a
- "Walking Source-Fountain" version a cheat version for players that regularly use the somewhat stronger source magic like they do with every other spell or a
- "Who-needs-source-anyway" version - a way to implement source as an common, optional
element for players that don't use source magic that often in combat, because they already have a damn good working constellation without source magic.

Independent suggestion from the upper scaling:

- 0AP & 1SP @ Source-Touch; [Touch-distance limited!] + [Adding common weak debuff to caster]*
- 2AP & 1SP @ Siphon Source; [Adding common weak debuff to caster]*

*) = May be dispelled the usual way with its counterpart-spell.

My background on how to handle source in a divinity world as a GM is oriented lore technical and of course the skills archieved with using them have to be accordingly strong. It's like the divinity-version of a "perfect"- or "rage"-bar in other games that enables special moves when reaching 100%.

So as source fountains are supposed to be a highly rare thing for a reason, (because gathering source of such an amount as source-mage without sacrificing people is a tough task) I feel like it's too much of an easy outcome to snip-spell a source point out of nowhere. I know, it's Larian's fault, that they on one hand told us, that absorbing source from corpses destroys the remaining earth-bound spitit of its bodie's former owner and later, on the other hand, don't punish you right away for having eaten every single corpse that crossed your way. At least not to my humble knowledge.

Originally posted by Hunter-Ghost-27:

As a last resort, I can also send you a tailor-made version of the mod. :)
Modifying stats takes like one minute tops (50 seconds of which are just waiting for the editor to load). But I'll try the mod-config first so that anyone can adjust the balance as they see fit.

This is a really lovely offer, thank you very much for doing so. If you wouldn't have mentioned, that it doesn't cost you that much of your spare time, I wouldn't even have thought about it. If you think a version I mentioned would be doable without investing too much time, it'll of course be awesome, especially ofc, if they're of use for others as well, but even if you decide that it's not for any reason, I'd stick with a: thanks for the offer at all. :)