Chivalry: Medieval Warfare

Chivalry: Medieval Warfare

Mana Warfare
Knil  [developer] 22 Dec, 2013 @ 7:44pm
Balance Discussion
This thread will be reserved for Mana Warfare balance talk, this includes all aspects mage vs mage and mage vs any. What do you guys think so far? Anything too strong or too weak?
Last edited by Knil; 22 Dec, 2013 @ 7:45pm
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Evil Minіоn 23 Dec, 2013 @ 12:48pm 
For now it seems like mage melee is a little bit too strong. Those stabs are really powerful. Especially when using the staff switching down to secondary is actually a downgrade in melee power.

Spells seem okay for the most part. Dragon's Breath is very strong against melee fighters but this is made up by the long chargeup (if you get flinched in melee you are dead) and the limited reach (no final statement as melee fighters aren't very common right now). Lightning Barrage is similar but less an issue for shield users because its blockable.

The Thunderbolt feels somewhat weak compared to shock - longer chargeup, harder to hit and the damage isn't that impressive. On the other side it seems like you can't really defend against it so it could be fine.

The only setup wasn't able to create much success with is the water staff. Cone of Cold feels like a watered down Dragon's Breath that does not flinch. Water Bomb is inferior to Healing mist as heal seems to affect enemies as well (which means you can't stand back healing your melee fighters from afar) and the healing amount is smaller. The setup just doesn't give you as much as the other ones.
S.N.A.F.U. 23 Dec, 2013 @ 6:44pm 
Evil Minion brought up some things that had been on my mind, so I'll add on to those.

I very much like that shields can block some spells. Where in C:MW vanilla they are little more than parries-that-can-be-held, shields provide considerable utility to their wielders by protecting them from spells that damage and kill those without shields, enabling Knights, MaAs, or javelin Archers a chance to get close to Wizards (or are they Mages IDON'TKNOW).

I am rather troubled by the current spells Dragon's Breath (the cone AOE fire spell?) and Lightning Barrage (I don't know if those are the actual names; just assuming Evil knows better). I think that both of those spells flinching opponents and interrupting any and all melee attacks with every hit makes them too powerful. Those spells almost unerringly trump any opponents' attempts to attack a Wizard (Mage?) in melee. Effectively the only way to fight a Wizard (Mage!?) who is using lightning or fire magic is to have throwing weapons or an Archer fire from range which I think shamefully invalidates most of the game's arsenal and undermines what I think is the foundation of this game: melee combat.

Some possible changes for those spells: Dragon's Breath I think should follow Cone of Cold in not flinching opponents and instead have increased burn damage-over-time. With Lighting Barrage you could replace flinching-on-hit with a very tiny stamina drain with each hit, or you can keep LB's ability to flinch but reduce the rate of fire to where the interval between lightning shots would allow a melee opponent to strike the Wizard (Mage?!?) and interrupt his spell-slinging (OR stamina-drain-on-hit AND decreased could both be implemented).

That's what's come to mind for now. I'll keep at Mana Warfare and come up with more feedback. Mana Warfare is really damn fun (almost forget to play C:MW vanilla now).
Knil  [developer] 23 Dec, 2013 @ 7:04pm 
Just to let you guys know Dragon's Breath flinching is a bug introduced when playing FFA, this will be fixed next patch. If you can replicate this flinching occuring outside of FFA let me know.

I appreciate all the input and I agree with many of these points.
Last edited by Knil; 23 Dec, 2013 @ 7:05pm
Evil Minіоn 24 Dec, 2013 @ 6:09am 
I would like to add that you can fight both Dragon's Breath and Lightning Barrage by closing the gap and then using the quick kick. It interupts casting and the long chargeup forces the Mage to do go into mundane melee. In a similar way you can kill the caster easily if you ambush him when the spell isn't ready.

As Lightning Barrage is also blockable by shields, not a free hit in melee (comparable to Javelins) and because its a lighting spell (ZAP) I think its flinch should stay.
McJumpy 2 Jan, 2014 @ 6:48pm 
I agree that lightning barrage is kind of op. Its stagger makes it too powerful and shields don't do much because the mages just aim at your feet. Maybe remove stagger or lower the damage a bit. Also, it would pretty cool if the casting time for everything was reduced so you can have a more fast paced mage battle.
S.N.A.F.U. 10 Jan, 2014 @ 5:49pm 
I am unaware of there being a patch or not since my last post, but my concerns about Dragon's Breath and Lightning Barrage seem to now be nonissues: the former no longer flinches and the latter's rate of fire has been decreased notably. Both good changes in my book!

A few more observations: the second spell for Lightning magic with the quarterstaff (QT), the one where three orbs are shot simultaneously in a expanding cone pattern (at least I think that's the one), is not very useful. The three orbs seem to originate from the Wizard's (Mage's?!) feet and within a second of being cast fly into the ground hitting no one. Could those orbs be made to originate at about waist height? That way, they would have a chance of hitting opponents.

Additionally I think the healing spell under Water magic would greatly benefit from some visual aids and cues. Could the particle effects for the spell form upon the Wizard's (Mage's?!?) staff before casting so as to inform nearby teammates that they might be healed? Further I think the healing target's health bar should appear where it usually does with it surrounded by the Water magic particle effect to indicate (hopefully clearly) that they are being healed.

!Edit!
It appears there are some visual cues already for healing in-game. Shows how much I'm paying attention.
!Edit!
Last edited by S.N.A.F.U.; 11 Jan, 2014 @ 4:06pm
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