RimWorld

RimWorld

[JPT] Human Resources
feedback
i started responding to you in the comment section, but there is a max for one thousand letters per comment and i didnt want to spam the mod's comment section

@jptrrs, my issue with the mod revolves around some aspects of it being not needed, dont add anything and are just kinda annoying;
for example, the books themselves, why do they need to exist? they dont do anything, you can just remove them from the game, double the research cost and keep the pawns learning from study desks the same, all it does is make it less annoying to create books, and problems that come with it, for example, if you got a book being made in progress and someone is carrying it to haul, then your pawn will start a new book, if you already got two unfinished books that your pawn can access, then they simply wont do anything, till you delete some of them, there are a lot more issues with those books, they just dont need to exist at all

another thing that i found this mod not needing to exist, is the pawns need to study a new technology and train a weapon
after 200+ hours of using this mod, i found that whole ordeal to be unnecessary at all, it did not add any challenge, all it did was increase the time and annoyance that it took me to find a weapon that my pawn can study and then train, it was not difficult, just annoying and time consuming

enemy pawns attacking you with their guns, and them knowing how to use the gun so you might consider recruiting them for that part, is simply just a more convoluted bio-coded weapons for the most part, and it breaks the reason for weapon learning to exist, the idea of weapon learning is so you dont have super strong weaponry when your technology isnt there yet, but you can simply recruit your army from the enemy pawns attacking you, granted they wont be as perfect as your other pawns, but its not an issue, having a pawn with a super strong weapon is much more important, i still had to make a conscious effort to not make myself too strong, and purposely not choosing those pawns, or destroy/selling their weapons

things that i like about this mod:
the random research aspect of it, granted it exists in another mod already, but i still like it, the difficulty did not increase at all when i used this mod over the other random research mod, it was just more frustrating, and a lot of micro managing

i like that you cant use weapons till you researched it, but that also exists with a different mod, and using this over the other did not increase the difficulty either

i like the idea of training, but not as its done right now, instead i would prefer it instead:
a pawn can use any weapon right away but at reduced performance till the research is complete and training is done

i also like the androids from a different mod cant learn technology, as it makes them more unique, but they are already weak generally, so it unbalanced them for the most part

most of my problems with this mod come from it not being automatic enough, having issues with other mods, or something
for example, if i right clicked on a training dummy with a pawn, it would freeze my game till i close it, and there is incompatibility with techprinting mod, not allowing me to apply the tech shards, if they are even needed, im not sure whats the problem is, i did not test it, it might be only for me, because i use 250+ mods
for some reason i also cant have my pawns document technology on their own, or it lags my game,so i do it manually, thousands of times i need to choose a pawn and tell them to document and the need to choose a gun, see if they can learn it and then train them with it

the building aspect did add some challenge at the beginning, at first when i needed things done quickly but my builder didnt know the technology yet so it was delayed, but thats it, after that point it made so little impact that i forgot that its actually a thing till i re-read the description of this mod to make this feedback

to summarize, my experience with this mod can be copied with two other mods, and reducing the amount of research being done, with a game stat, without all the hassle, mod incompatibilities and issues, im sorry, i hope i didnt make you sad or broke your spirit, there are a lot of mods and things you can do, i hope i will like this mod in the future or your other ones
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Showing 1-8 of 8 comments
jptrrs  [developer] 13 Jul, 2020 @ 1:21pm 
Thanks for taking the time to write this down, ToiletWarrior.
It looks like you had a lot of troubles related to other mods. There should be no freezes and no issues with pawns performing tasks automatically. Unfortunately, I'd need way more information to track those issues down. If you feel like it, check this other discussion to report them: https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/2119687603/2295094308095765898/

the books themselves, why do they need to exist?
They exist in order to bring the technologies down to a game object, that can be bought, awarded and destroyed. A welcome side-effect is they add a second step to researching and make it a more involved process. Many other mods do this purposefully with other vanilla resource chains, like this one, and my intent follows the same philosophy: more steps = more fun.

another thing that i found this mod not needing to exist, is the pawns need to study a new technology and train a weapon
You're right, it doesn't. But for that we have vanilla! I only wrote the mod so this would be a thing. :)

and there is incompatibility with techprinting mod
Note taken! I'll look into it, and maybe we'll simply mark it as incompatible.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. Don't worry, I'm pretty sure this mod is not for everyone.
Cheers!
CharlieOscar2 26 Jul, 2020 @ 7:27am 
Hi JPTRRS!

I have some suggestions for you. Overall I love the concept. But there is some weird overlapping and quality of life things that I've encountered with two other big popular mods.
1) Children School and Learning - With this mod installed you have two study jobs in the work tab. Perhaps build compatibility into your mod so that they dont conflict?
2) Prepare Carefully - It would be very cool to be able to assign skill sets and training to pawns.
Kafouille 24 Sep, 2020 @ 5:18pm 
Hello, and first of all thanks for your work, I'm a big fan of some of your other mods. Now onto feedback :

I like the concept a lot, the idea that pawns should know tech instead of it being an abstract colony-wide thing is great, but there are some UI and design issues to the whole thing that made me uninstall it for now. But first what I think makes this thing worthwhile :

It adds a whole new aspect to acquiring pawns, capturing someone who knows a critical tech is a serious boon and feels pretty awesome, I like the books as a way of trading tech and not being able to use weapons you aren't familiar with makes sense and adds a lot to the way I like to play, Tribals to Glittertech Glory style.

Now onto the painful bit :

The interface sucks. The bills interface is wholly unsuited to research selection, makes things seriously tedious especially on modded runs with a lot of interdependent tech, where you have to cross reference the tech tree with the bills all the time. Ideally the research and selection would happen the vanilla way, with tech ticking up the normal way but stopping once you would unlock it and requiring the writing step to be performed first.
It would probably be more compatible too to have research be more consistent with the way vanilla works, especially if it can happen with the vanilla workbench instead of replacing it, intercepting the completion bit then add the writing step but I don't have Rimworld modding experience, just general code.

The skills training selection also really would feel more at home in the pawn tab itself rather than in a bill, it would make it a lot less fiddly when you have a lot of pawns with each having different knowledge needs.

The weapons training needs a rework, having the pawns have to know the tech AND train with it feels wholly redundant, but you don't need to know how to make a rifle to know how to pull the trigger effectively, so the feature itself is worthwhile.
I would remove it and change it to a tutor model, where another pawn that knows how to use the weapon could train others on how to use it. That way acquiring someone with weapon knowledge is a goal onto itself even if they don't know how to make it.
My other issue with the way it currently works is that it's a bit of a compatibility nightmare it seems and seems like a lot of patching work to make work with things like CE, and the shooting/melee skill training feels like it belongs in another mod.

Another issue is that the books themselves SERIOUSLY inflate colony wealth, and with the added difficulty of the mod itself it can be pretty overwhelming raid-wise. It may be wise to add a warning to use something like Combat Readiness Check to fiddle with that.

All in all I love the concept but it's somewhat of a fiddly pain to manage right now, it could really use a streamlining pass on the UI level, even if I realise that it's unlikely to happen as it's probably a big structural change.
jptrrs  [developer] 10 Oct, 2020 @ 2:56pm 
Originally posted by CharlieOscar2:
1) Children School and Learning - With this mod installed you have two study jobs in the work tab. Perhaps build compatibility into your mod so that they dont conflict?
Done!
jptrrs  [developer] 10 Oct, 2020 @ 3:11pm 
Originally posted by Kafouille:
The bills interface is wholly unsuited to research selection, makes things seriously tedious especially on modded runs with a lot of interdependent tech, where you have to cross reference the tech tree with the bills all the time.

Last updated just removed the bills out of the equation. ;-)

The skills training selection also really would feel more at home in the pawn tab itself rather than in a bill, it would make it a lot less fiddly when you have a lot of pawns with each having different knowledge needs.

Done!

The weapons training needs a rework, having the pawns have to know the tech AND train with it feels wholly redundant, but you don't need to know how to make a rifle to know how to pull the trigger effectively, so the feature itself is worthwhile.

Nor your pawns need to. All they need to learn a weapon is the weapon's tech filed on your book shelf. This is a must because we need SOME event to mark the fact that that conlony has acquired that technology.,

My other issue with the way it currently works is that it's a bit of a compatibility nightmare it seems and seems like a lot of patching work to make work with things like CE, and the shooting/melee skill training feels like it belongs in another mod.

I don't intend to make anything compatible to CE. Like, ever. Too much of a hassle.

Another issue is that the books themselves SERIOUSLY inflate colony wealth, and with the added difficulty of the mod itself it can be pretty overwhelming raid-wise. It may be wise to add a warning to use something like Combat Readiness Check to fiddle with that.

That's a very good suggestion! Added to my to-do list.
Dashidian 12 Oct, 2020 @ 12:18pm 
Will you open up an official feedback post, shall we continue to add my feedback in here or open our own posts? For now I will open up my own post, as what I propose are - unlike the ones before - really only minor tweaks and fixes, nothing game- or mod breaking.
jptrrs  [developer] 12 Oct, 2020 @ 4:17pm 
Whatever you prefer, Dashidian. I get feedback from everywhere, so I don't think a dedicated discussion for that would really be effective.
Franimus 7 Nov, 2020 @ 3:09pm 
A thought: Would it be possible to allow multiple pawns to work on documenting a single tech? Idea being it would be similar to a co-authored research paper or peer reviewed tech manual. Also that way we could have another pawn pick up where the first left off if the first needs to sleep (either temporarily or permanently lol)
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