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Crusader Kings III >  Workshop > Sparc's Workshop > Princes of Darkness > Discussions
Princes of Darkness
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GrandMajora 22 May, 2024 @ 6:28pm
My Lore Breaking Playstyles
Leopold von Murnau - Learned alchemy so I could turn myself into a vampire. Diablerized my way to becoming powerful enough to start my own bloodline, then took up the study of Demonology. Learned the true name of Baba Yaga's pet demon and bound him into my service, where I then proceeded to buy enough investments to effectively become a demon in my own right.

The founder of the Society of Leopold, everybody!


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Karl Schrekt - Once again, had him acquire the powers of Sorcery. I was not aware of this at the time, but he is canonically embraced by clan Tremere later on in life. I, however, had other plans for him. Instead of becoming a vampire, I had him turn into a werewolf, joining the Get of Fenris and converting his religion to Mjolnir's Thunder. Also, he is an Ahroun, meaning that his only goal in life now is to slaughter as many monsters as he possibly can.

Funny side bit, I also used the werewolf potion on a hunter that I had previously anointed, only for them to turn into a Black Spiral Dancer!


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Absalon - Diablerized Absimiliard in the hopes of saving my clan from his psychotic vendetta. Then went on to become a founding member of the Sabbat. Meaning that the Swords of Caine now have a 3rd generation actively helping them fight back against the tyranny of the Antedeluvians.
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Showing 1-15 of 29 comments
random encounter 24 May, 2024 @ 6:21pm 
That is powergaming in a nutshell. Totally fine on PC, not widely accepted in pen and paper. Absolutely lorefriendly - see Samuel Haight, the ghoul-werewolf-magician. In the lore the higher-ups in the Society of Leopold are hopped up on vitae from vampire prisoners and use their fellow crusaders to feed their habbit. Magic hating magicians (technocratic union) that turn their pro-magic colleagues into magic terminators. For science, of course. The list goes on.
#1
GrandMajora 26 May, 2024 @ 5:11am 
Originally posted by random encounter:
In the lore the higher-ups in the Society of Leopold are hopped up on vitae from vampire prisoners and use their fellow crusaders to feed their habbit.

I suppose that would explain why nobody in Redemption was questioning why Father Leo Alatius had a giant vat of blood sitting right next to his desk, then.
#2
random encounter 28 May, 2024 @ 11:19pm 
In V5 some branches of the Second Inquisition even use turncoat thinbloods and feral vamps as infiltrators and shocktroops. They also have the biggest collection on demonology - for safekeeping, of course.
#3
GrandMajora 1 Jun, 2024 @ 6:19pm 
Originally posted by random encounter:
In V5 some branches of the Second Inquisition even use turncoat thinbloods and feral vamps as infiltrators and shocktroops. They also have the biggest collection on demonology - for safekeeping, of course.

Personally, I always liked the idea that any Thinblood who gets the 'brilliant' idea of becoming a vampire hunter because they fool themselves into thinking they're The Daywalker, would get obliterated during their first night on the job.
#4
I haz grapes 2 Jun, 2024 @ 9:26pm 
If Mithras gets assasinated one year into the game, it does not break the lore. Lore ends when the game starts. It's not about reenacting fictional history over and over again, it would be boring. Gehenna can be averted, Helena can reach Golconda, Leopold can become pokemon.

Periodically, and seemingly independently. different people come up with concept of vampire who sucks blood using his anus. It's not a lore issue, it's role issue. Question is never about whether you can or can't do that. Question is, why would you? What the hell happened in your character's unlife that he decided it's a good option?
#5
random encounter 3 Jun, 2024 @ 12:09pm 
Yeah, in the classic WoD he probably wouldn´t even make it past the ghouled security. Thinbloods are more like a plot device for the end times.
In V5 they still get wrecked by proper licks in a "fair" fight. However, they have other unique strenghts, like their thinblood alchemy, and a lot of utility in general. Their main disadvantage is the minor detail that everybody mistrusts and hates them.
#6
random encounter 3 Jun, 2024 @ 12:15pm 
In a dog eat dog world most people would do whatever it takes to get an edge.
A powergrab is easily justified by saying: I will use this evil gift for good, so it is basically good diablery, demonology, blood slavery etc.
#7
GrandMajora 3 Jun, 2024 @ 12:57pm 
Originally posted by random encounter:
Yeah, in the classic WoD he probably wouldn´t even make it past the ghouled security. Thinbloods are more like a plot device for the end times.
In V5 they still get wrecked by proper licks in a "fair" fight. However, they have other unique strenghts, like their thinblood alchemy, and a lot of utility in general. Their main disadvantage is the minor detail that everybody mistrusts and hates them.

Thinblood Alchemy only replicates the effects of Disciplines up to 4 dots, while the more 'exclusive' powers that it offers are situational at best and range from being unimpressive, to downright cringe worthy.

Plus, have you seen the names of some of these formulae they invented!?
Last edited by GrandMajora; 3 Jun, 2024 @ 12:58pm
#8
random encounter 6 Jun, 2024 @ 9:24am 
Most thinblood cooks are more or less Jessie Pinkman from Breaking Bad, hence their naming conventions.
In solo games thinbloods are a challenge, in V5 group adventures one of them could be a strong pick for your team.
Their disadvantages are kind of helpful in certain situations: They can pass as human, are less vulnerable during daytime raids and due to their abysmal blood potency they can drink anything. If their blood is not addictive then your team has an universal donor.
Alchemy can cure torpor and suppress deformities and Gangrel banes. Since blood is health and they can drink rats, expired IV bags, corpses etc they are like the group cleric in D&D.
#9
GrandMajora 6 Jun, 2024 @ 12:05pm 
Originally posted by random encounter:
Most thinblood cooks are more or less Jessie Pinkman from Breaking Bad, hence their naming conventions.
In solo games thinbloods are a challenge, in V5 group adventures one of them could be a strong pick for your team.
Their disadvantages are kind of helpful in certain situations: They can pass as human, are less vulnerable during daytime raids and due to their abysmal blood potency they can drink anything. If their blood is not addictive then your team has an universal donor.
Alchemy can cure torpor and suppress deformities and Gangrel banes. Since blood is health and they can drink rats, expired IV bags, corpses etc they are like the group cleric in D&D.

Tremere blood isn't addictive in V5, and they are far more powerful / useful than whatever paltry tricks a Thinblood could come up with.

As for being less vulnerable in raids, you can just use Ghouls, who are not only practically indistinguishable from humans, but also who's loyalty to you is absolutely guaranteed, thanks to the blood bond.

Gangrel mutations are only a problem if you Frenzy, and even then, they only last a couple nights before clearing up on their own.

And why would a Thinblood ever want to awaken a vampire from torpor and risk falling under their iron fisted tyranny, when they can diablerize them instead and finally start earning some proper respect and influence?

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V5 gravely overestimates the Thinbloods.

Thinbloods are trash, and they deserve to be treated as such.
#10
random encounter 9 Jun, 2024 @ 3:45am 
Oh, they are most def treated as such.
From a pure powergaming point of view they have advantages over Tremere.
They can drink pretty much anything and they don´t burn through vitae like crazy in a fight.
Their potions are paid for when they are created, not when they are used, f.e. in a bossfight.
Knowing that you have a thinblood cook in your team you can pick a physical disability, get extra points for it, and then have your cook suppress that disadvantage.
Dedicated fighters do end up in torpor now and then. Why would the thinblood bring them back? Because he needs the backup to survive. Without a Gangrel or Brujah homie to back him up he is going to get bullied by everybody and their cat.
Why wouldn´t the thinblood cook diablerize the beat up Gangrel?
He would lose his main stick, because you need to be a thinblood to cook.
Also, every reasonably smart lick would figure out his crime. "Hey you guys! I am no longer a thinblood, so stop harassing me! How did that happen, you ask? Where is Tom, you ask? Weeel...."
#11
GrandMajora 9 Jun, 2024 @ 8:51am 
Originally posted by random encounter:
Oh, they are most def treated as such.
From a pure powergaming point of view they have advantages over Tremere.
They can drink pretty much anything and they don´t burn through vitae like crazy in a fight.
Their potions are paid for when they are created, not when they are used, f.e. in a bossfight.
Knowing that you have a thinblood cook in your team you can pick a physical disability, get extra points for it, and then have your cook suppress that disadvantage.
Dedicated fighters do end up in torpor now and then. Why would the thinblood bring them back? Because he needs the backup to survive. Without a Gangrel or Brujah homie to back him up he is going to get bullied by everybody and their cat.
Why wouldn´t the thinblood cook diablerize the beat up Gangrel?
He would lose his main stick, because you need to be a thinblood to cook.
Also, every reasonably smart lick would figure out his crime. "Hey you guys! I am no longer a thinblood, so stop harassing me! How did that happen, you ask? Where is Tom, you ask? Weeel...."

Hasn't V5 Camarilla lessened their restrictions on Diablerie now, and are offering it as a reward to any Thinblood who proves their worth to the organization?

As for losing their ability to use alchemy, that's not much of an issue. Like I said, it can't replicate the effects of 5th dot powers, meaning you will never be as powerful as a full vampire. And many of its non-discipline related formulae are situational at best.

Gangrel are nomadic loners who don't care much for politics, while Brujah are street punks with anger management issues. Who, in V5, are under the beastly Compulsion to rebel against the status quo... no matter what that quo happens to be!

Hardly a pair of clans that say 'trustworthy coterie' when you're looking for allies. The Gangrel will probably drop you once they realize you've become dead weight, and the Brujah will turn on you the second they discover you have a contrary opinion. Philosopher kings, my ass, they're just bullies now!


Finally, being able to eat anything isn't that big a deal. It takes vampires a very long time to reach the point where they can't feed on humans anymore. Not only that, but Animalism also has a power which allows you to continue feeding on beasts until you reach BP 4 or so.
Last edited by GrandMajora; 9 Jun, 2024 @ 8:53am
#12
random encounter 9 Jun, 2024 @ 11:43am 
The Camarilla is and always was quite flexible regarding their rules as long as you can make it worth their wile. In classic WoD they straight up recruited fighters for their conquest of New York by promising them one free diablerie each. Of Sabbat combatants only, of course. Not that any nasty mercenary would be smart enough to take his prey to the warzone, finish the job and then claim that the dark steaks in his aura are from a Sabbat paladin.
The question is: What would a former thinblood have to offer that is valuable enough? Also, what else could he have asked for instead?
The loss of alchemy would be an issue for me as a player after I spent all those points on that.
Last edited by random encounter; 9 Jun, 2024 @ 12:14pm
#13
random encounter 9 Jun, 2024 @ 12:05pm 
When it comes to choosing cotery members let´s assume that you play a young and ambitious Camarilla Ventrue. Someone who dislikes Gangrel and Brujah, for some reason. So you pick a fighter/bodyguard, f.e. a Nosferatu. Then you pick a Malky for spy/sneak/investigator. Now you are looking for a caster. Your most likely options are:
1. Jessie Pinkman, the thinblood cook. 2. Some ivory league PhD with perfect hair from House Schreckt 3. Some hot topic chick with an attitude and a trunk full of dead boyfriends from house Cara. 4. Some individual from house Goatrix, who denies all allegations regarding demon worship and dark pacts.
I would pick Jessie Pinkman. He needs my protection. I can bully, sweettalk or brainwash him at my leasure. He negates my Clan´s feeding restrictions. He does not have a chapterhouse to report to every five minutes. If I pick Mr. Ivory league I might as well bug my own phone and send a report of everything we do to the local regent.
Last edited by random encounter; 9 Jun, 2024 @ 12:06pm
#14
GrandMajora 9 Jul, 2024 @ 8:03pm 
Option 5 - Get yourself a Ghoul, who's loyalty is absolute, and who's ability to blend in with mortal society is greater than even what Thinbloods are capable of emulating.

Better yet, get yourself multiple Ghouls, seeing as they only need to be fed vitae once a month. Maybe if you keep them around long enough, they'll start passing the vitae down to their children, and now you've got yourself a family of Revenants devoted to serving you!
Last edited by GrandMajora; 9 Jul, 2024 @ 8:03pm
#15
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