Water is fairly easy to find in either the Underworld or the Spirit Wilds, in River of Death and Umi respectively. As a werewolf, you have easy access to the Spirit Wilds, but for Underworld you need to be either Black Furies, get another splat like a mummy to explore for you, or I think one of the Silver Fangs religion has automatic access to it too.

For the rest, the easiest way to find them is areas in the Dreaming. If you're looking for ingredients for Sorcery, that means you got the Sorcery tree, so just go down the Oneiromancy (I think that's what it's called) line first, and get to the perk that gives access to Dreaming travel. Once you start exploring the Dreaming a bit, you'll hit the rest of the materials very quickly. The farthest one is magic fuel, which I can't remember exactly, but can be found after either Far Dreaming or Deep Dreaming.

Originally posted by Azrael:

Water is fairly easy to find in either the Underworld or the Spirit Wilds, in River of Death and Umi respectively. As a werewolf, you have easy access to the Spirit Wilds, but for Underworld you need to be either Black Furies, get another splat like a mummy to explore for you, or I think one of the Silver Fangs religion has automatic access to it too.

For the rest, the easiest way to find them is areas in the Dreaming. If you're looking for ingredients for Sorcery, that means you got the Sorcery tree, so just go down the Oneiromancy (I think that's what it's called) line first, and get to the perk that gives access to Dreaming travel. Once you start exploring the Dreaming a bit, you'll hit the rest of the materials very quickly. The farthest one is magic fuel, which I can't remember exactly, but can be found after either Far Dreaming or Deep Dreaming.

Will give it a try. I'm using Black Spiral Dancers since it was the most ok with darker stuff such as witchcraft, sorcery and the like so no luck on that part. As for getting the others to do it, I dont know how this works, but I have many other Werewolf tribes as vassals, but they never appear to be assigned as explorers, the only ones that appear seem to be people without a tittle or my close family or pack.
Also, how one would be able to employ a mummy or a spirit in this? There is not even an option to "befriend" a mummy, I had to abduct one to complete sorcery quest, having one to explore I think it will never happen, or is it only related to how much RENOWN I have for them to appear as guests???
I almost conquered 1/4 of Europe, but still have very low renown, so I can't really tell.

Thanks for the help.

You need certain perks to unlock the befriend scheme. Diplomacy tree is the most straightforward way to unlock it. To get them to become Umbra explorers for you, I think just befriending and being in your realm will do it, but you might need to make them a member of your pack too. Just need high opinion for that and being part of the same realm, so if you can find a landless mummy in diplo range you can befriend you should be able to invite them to your court and then your pack after.

Werewolves are useless to explore some parts of the umbra. Only some mummies have universal access from the start. They don´t necessarily have to be your friends, altough befriending them is a good idea. You just need to give them a reason to stick around your court. Just give them some court position. Most mummies hate the wyrm, so you might want to get traitor bane mummies and not regular loyalists.
The problem with getting renown from battles is that you have to win against strong enemies and provoke big fights. As a strategist, that´s something to avoid. So if you play smart and attack with overwhelming force you do not farm much renown.

Originally posted by Azrael:

Water is fairly easy to find in either the Underworld or the Spirit Wilds, in River of Death and Umi respectively. As a werewolf, you have easy access to the Spirit Wilds, but for Underworld you need to be either Black Furies, get another splat like a mummy to explore for you, or I think one of the Silver Fangs religion has automatic access to it too.

For the rest, the easiest way to find them is areas in the Dreaming. If you're looking for ingredients for Sorcery, that means you got the Sorcery tree, so just go down the Oneiromancy (I think that's what it's called) line first, and get to the perk that gives access to Dreaming travel. Once you start exploring the Dreaming a bit, you'll hit the rest of the materials very quickly. The farthest one is magic fuel, which I can't remember exactly, but can be found after either Far Dreaming or Deep Dreaming.

So, I unlocked the perk to be able to access the Dreaming AND I can use Oneiromancy, but no matter what parts of the Umbra I explore, it nevers gives me access to the Dreaming, there is not even a specific place saying I can only access because of it. I got the wraith trait by making a Journey with Couterie and I can see ghosts, also have perks to bind Wraiths, but there is simply no place I can use it (also not on duels from what I've seen).
I'm really confused here.

I noticed there are some realms that only open after you explore a certain realm, but I explored tons of them and there is no Dreaming appearing anywhere. Though I can access River of Death, Umi, etc.

Edit: Managed to get the perk of getting a wraith from an execution, did it to a powerfull vampire, bound it on 60% chance and now it is also completely useless, because it has 0 on all traits because of stress, can't take actions independently and when I try to send to any of the realms it says it is impossible because the character is INCAPABLE.

Took me like 50 years (again in another character) to find Chimare to then open Near Dreaming, which is not even the place I need. I really think some of this ingredients are way too difficult considering 99% of all splats are Immortal, can't say it's really fair to spend an eternity and all your efforts on Sorcery to to reach the necessary steps AND ingredients to make Immortality Elixir, because by then you will probably be dead and buried. I'm only still alive to this point because I was sure this was a mission impossible, so I made the character also a Ghoul.

Idk, if it was something impossible to reach by other means it would make sense. I just think considering how everything else is so much more powerfull and you can arrive at the same results with less pain in the a-ss, this just doesn't make much sense.

That's very odd. I don't know if they made changes to it, but about a couple months ago I made a run to get the potion of immortality with a single werewolf character, I didn't have the problem you mentioned with getting to the Dreaming with the sorcery perk. I'm gonna boot the game up and try to replicate my previous try, see what's going on.

Edit: I don't know what the difference between our characters is that is causing the issue, but I just made an average custom werewolf character, Silent Striders. Rushed a Diplomacy perk point while accumulating 1000 prestige for learning sorcery. Got the befriend perk, befriended a mummy, and learned sorcery. Then, just stacked up sorcery perk points until I got the Oneiromancy 4 perk, and explored, in this order, Chimare -> Near Dreaming -> Slumbering Ocean -> Far Dreaming. That gives you access to all 4 magic ingredients, water in Slumbering Ocean, minerals in Arawn's Forge, fuel in Great Dream Forest, and herbs in Kureksarra. With the mummy I befriended helping with exploration, it only took me 40 years overall, more than quick enough to make the elixir with the starting character.

Originally posted by Azrael:

That's very odd. I don't know if they made changes to it, but about a couple months ago I made a run to get the potion of immortality with a single werewolf character, I didn't have the problem you mentioned with getting to the Dreaming with the sorcery perk. I'm gonna boot the game up and try to replicate my previous try, see what's going on.

Edit: I don't know what the difference between our characters is that is causing the issue, but I just made an average custom werewolf character, Silent Striders. Rushed a Diplomacy perk point while accumulating 1000 prestige for learning sorcery. Got the befriend perk, befriended a mummy, and learned sorcery. Then, just stacked up sorcery perk points until I got the Oneiromancy 4 perk, and explored, in this order, Chimare -> Near Dreaming -> Slumbering Ocean -> Far Dreaming. That gives you access to all 4 magic ingredients, water in Slumbering Ocean, minerals in Arawn's Forge, fuel in Great Dream Forest, and herbs in Kureksarra. With the mummy I befriended helping with exploration, it only took me 40 years overall, more than quick enough to make the elixir with the starting character.

Thing is, when you actually know exactly what you need before you need is one thing, another is just playing the game normally and trying to learn things as they come. I tried at least 4 different Werewolves to finally manage to do that and with a lot of difficulties.
The first one I thought I just needed to make a Coven, so I focused on how and what exactly was asked. And from the way it is asked, they necessarily need to be your children, either born or from Lupus and adults, then when I finally managed to do that something else appears.. Oh you have to befriend a Mummy, but then there is the problem of DISTANCE for diplomatic relations, so I had to figure out that as well, either by starting closer to one, or conquering stuff near it, THEN after everything else you learn that actually you could not BUY the ingredients (not even from other characters that sell stuff), and that you actually need to start exploring the Umbra from the get go in the game...
After all that you can imagine how frustrating it is to restart the game multiple times because there was always something missing that the skill tree or perk doesnt actually inform you beforehand.

Also, I dont know if it is or not, but it seems to me that the opening of some areas to explore in the Umbra depend on multiple stuff. For instance, when I started there is no Chimare to explore if I remember correctly.
There is also the fact that considering that all the other aspects of the game are difficult for me as well, it's not like I'm free to simply focus on one thing and go with it.

I will have to see in another run if Chimare is there from the beginning, but what I'm really sure is that I didn't explore it first. I went checking every description one for one of the ones that would appear to explore until I finally found that one that actually requeried dreaming.

Another thing that I noticed happened in my game more than once is a also a few perks not working as intended for reasons I dont really know probably because of game mechanics I'm unaware. For instance, I always had the perk that allows befriend in all the runs, but I can only BEFRIEND certain characters as a scheme, can't say why, possibly related to differences in religion (there are also stuff in the legacy I can't open even though I also have a perk, I manage to open only once in a werewolf run - one of those that are related to totems).

So pretty much I always abduct a mummy and just let it go afterwards.

At least now I can come back here and read if I need a complete rundown. Because sure it is frustrating that the steps are not put there beforehand of requirements.

Originally posted by Azrael:

That's very odd. I don't know if they made changes to it, but about a couple months ago I made a run to get the potion of immortality with a single werewolf character, I didn't have the problem you mentioned with getting to the Dreaming with the sorcery perk. I'm gonna boot the game up and try to replicate my previous try, see what's going on.

Edit: I don't know what the difference between our characters is that is causing the issue, but I just made an average custom werewolf character, Silent Striders. Rushed a Diplomacy perk point while accumulating 1000 prestige for learning sorcery. Got the befriend perk, befriended a mummy, and learned sorcery. Then, just stacked up sorcery perk points until I got the Oneiromancy 4 perk, and explored, in this order, Chimare -> Near Dreaming -> Slumbering Ocean -> Far Dreaming. That gives you access to all 4 magic ingredients, water in Slumbering Ocean, minerals in Arawn's Forge, fuel in Great Dream Forest, and herbs in Kureksarra. With the mummy I befriended helping with exploration, it only took me 40 years overall, more than quick enough to make the elixir with the starting character.

Forgot to mention again as well, that I dont know if it's just misleading or I'm not comprehending, but there are a lot of places in the umbra that literally say "send bound Wraith" and I bound a Wrait and there is no possibility of sending anything there as well, which again, were a lot of points in sorcery wasted for me.

Exploring the umbra efficiently is nearly impossible without the map. Check out the princes of darkness wiki. You have to know which places are bottlenecks and which are dead ends.
Reaching immortality via the potion is hard but possible with werewolves. You have to plan ahead and commit a lot of resources, though. For a hunter it is nearly impossible.
The potion is very good for your relatives and important allies, though. Once you have access to the ingredients you can mass-produce it.
If you just want your own character to survive there are quicker options for sure, especially for wolves. Very early on in one of the primal realms you can commune with Gaia and become a kami. One of their early perks gives you life expectancy +600 years. Or go drone if you play wardens of men.