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Crusader Kings III >  Workshop > Sparc's Workshop > Princes of Darkness > Discussions
Princes of Darkness
Description Discussions492 Comments6681 Change Notes
nocforweb 1 Jan @ 8:34pm
Tzimisce, Eternal Change, Via Mutationis
So I got to the point where I might be able to do Eternal Change (just waiting until I'm head of the house or whatever, don't think I can really control that given how I have like... almost all the tzim territory and power and am the only tzim emperor and have a legend unlocked and still just randomly flips back and forth.. anyway). So waiting until I can click Eternal Change but... no idea what to pick. And by that what I mean, I can't quite tell what things 'are' / 'do', not looking at tooltips or the wiki or searching discussions or google.

Path 1: I get a pressed claim on the northern empire (meh) and "You strengthen Clan Tzimisce as a whole". ... what does that mean? Do we give each other head-pats, do we get a prowess bonus, does it increase unity.. what does "strengthen Clan" mean?

Path 2: gets Militarized Experiments (that seems straight forward, more units, bigger units, small discount on their costs)... but all Tzim switch to Via Mutationis. Which, look.. erm. 'bad'. You get
* a chance to meditate as stress relief and 'theologicial insight'? (is that just extra piety or something?).
* You can debate people (make people angry to gain piety).
* And 'Knowledge Above All': "Gives access to a special execution method". What does that mean? Do you get extra experience from it, or just some special dialog, or... what does it do that makes it worth a tenet slot?

Path 3: "make a deal with the devil" - straight up bonuses but "other tzimisce characters will be drained to fuel your rise to demonic power". Like.. do your childer star dying? All other Tzimisce? Is it a sacrifice option that keeps giving bonuses?

I just cannot tell from these what they will do, or where to look afterward to find out what the effects were (to see if they were worth it).

So has anyone played with that decision, or via mutationis, that can say a bit more about what all this is?

(The search for Azhi Dahaka still seems partially broken - not bricked, but it keeps suggesting the cowed cathedral should be in other counties. Its in my empire now, gonna take that county, but its not like it can be moved or re-build elsewhere. So just going for the ghoul version. Not in a hurry since as far as I can tell from the tool-tip it just gives you more and more penalties with no up-side)
Last edited by nocforweb; 1 Jan @ 8:38pm
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Showing 1-8 of 8 comments
nocforweb 1 Jan @ 8:48pm 
oh, found a better description of Azhi Dahaka, had to look through Via Mutationis virtues to find it instead of actually looking at the decision stuff - its:

Diplomacy -15 (I think its a trait that goes to 15 based on the other tooltip but not sure)
General Opinion -20 / Koldun Opinion +10 / Zealot opinion +10

Can learn Elder Perks regardless of generation (not bad)
Will never frenzy (have never frenzied but probably good)
Infinite blood (that seems worthwhile)
Piety +1/month
#1
random encounter 2 Jan @ 3:52am 
Debates are not bad. You can challenge people and the winner loses stress. Unfortuantely, It is not very time efficient.
Meditation is pretty good. Stress relief, bonuses etc. XP in mystic, if I am not mistaken.
Special execution methods tend to be good. You usually get prestige, dread, piety or something similar for every prisoner that you execute.
"Strenghten clan" could mean free legacies, unlocking legacies etc.
The third option seems to be a classic choice in PoD: Personal power at the expense of allies.
#2
random encounter 2 Jan @ 3:54am 
In story terms:
Option one is in line with Via Tyrannus, Via Regalis etc.
Option two is team Via Mutationis.
Option three is for infernalists. Kupala is one of the strongest active demon lords in WoD.
#3
nocforweb 2 Jan @ 9:11pm 
Thank you and agreed, those were my guesses too. But I really would love to know more specific impacts. I just tried option 1 and then flipped through every screen, couldn't identify any changes anywhere (aside from that claim). Nothing seems to happen after you pick that.

And the special execution method things.. just kinda sounds like an execution. And not too useful unless you have a way of getting lots of prisoners, which just gets harder without the conquest invasion cause.

As for option 3.. so your allies start dying? or... still not sure who gets killed and what you get from them dying or if you have to execute them or..

Sorry, I'm still no clearer I'm afraid. I don't know how to read game files, is there a way to tell what's supposed to actually happen by looking at them maybe? (Unless someone's tried the options already?)
#4
random encounter 3 Jan @ 4:30am 
Well, in terms of pure powergaming the chaotic evil option is the strongest. +10 to every attribute is OP. The righteous evil option gives good buffs too. You can field bigger armies at lower cost. You get stress relief. The not so evil ending gives the least rewards.
As to how many Tzims would be negatively affected by a deal with a demon lord: How would your character know that beforehand? The demon is not a reliable source of information.
#5
nocforweb 4 Jan @ 9:18pm 
Ok, I think I found it, if I'm reading this stuff correctly. And if it is important for you to not know things beforehand, obviously don't read.I personally like clarity on what clicking a button will do in a game, especially when it takes sooooo long to get to it and I might have to spend a really long time trying to roll it back because it didn't do what I thought it did.

Option 1:

add_pressed_claim = title:e_fiefs_of_the_black_cross

every living tzimisce: dark_nobility_modifier

dark_nobility_modifier = {
icon = stewardship_positive
vassal_limit = 10
dread_per_tyranny_add = 0.5
intimidated_vassal_tax_contribution_add = 0.05
intimidated_vassal_levy_contribution_add = 0.05
cowed_vassal_tax_contribution_add = 0.1
cowed_vassal_levy_contribution_add = 0.1
}

Option 2:

set_character_faith = faith:viamutationis
faith:viamutationis gets doctrine 'militarized_experiments_doctrine' (described already in tooltips)
every living tzimisce: becomes viamutationis

viamutationis:
as per tooltip, mostly piety options
the execution experiments add piety and learning lifestyle xp


Option 3:

get: kupala_empowered_modifier
kupala_empowered_modifier = {
icon = prowess_positive
martial = 10
diplomacy = 10
learning = 10
intrigue = 10
prowess_no_portrait = 10
stewardship = 10
}

every OTHER living tzimisce: kupala_depowered_modifier
kupala_depowered_modifier = {
icon = prowess_negative
martial = -5
diplomacy = -5
learning = -5
intrigue = -5
prowess = -5
stewardship = -5
}

Hope this helps someone after me. And I don't work on this mod so have no idea when/if the info will change, as this clan / these plans get more 'fleshed out' (pun cheap but intentional)
#6
random encounter 5 Jan @ 10:02am 
So Kupala just depowers your clan? I would have expected far worse.
#7
nocforweb 5 Jan @ 4:07pm 
yea, I'd have kinda expected a bit more 'interesting' I suppose. Maybe its in the backlog to build that up, Tzim aren't exactly the most popular clan
#8
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