Darkest Dungeon®

Darkest Dungeon®

The Philomath Class
Rehtaelle  [developer] 14 Dec, 2020 @ 1:34am
Discussion/ Further Feedback
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Showing 1-15 of 39 comments
Rehtaelle  [developer] 14 Dec, 2020 @ 1:42am 
EDIT: I want to clarify some questions about her balancing in regard to early game damage.

Philomath features some above-average damage early on due to the fact that her support skills aren't that useful yet. In the name of her not feeling like dead weight with tier 1/2 gear, she sits above the typical power curve. Additionally, she is ultimately only barely more durable than antiquarian, thus she is well and truly a glass cannon at this point. At tier 3 gear and beyond, she falls in line with Highwayman's damage model (meaning she's not as strong because of his many modifiers and buffs) but at this point her support skills are more valuable and her ability to pursue that option becomes more viable.

I am keeping a close eye on her in this regard, but for the time being, I'm comfortable with where she's at.


To answer the question about nightmare content, at a later time I'll be adding in a series of nightmares she faces that will be primarily boss fights. Unlike Shieldbreaker, these will never end. However, I plan to add rewarded quirks/ traits to make them worth putting up with.

Nothing is currently set in stone, but I'm considering One-per-roster traits and quirks like:
"Light Sleeper" +40% Chance to Prevent Nighttime Ambush, -50% Stress healing received while camping
"Truth Seer" +15% DMG vs Somnium, +15% DMG vs Eldritch
"Nihilism" Increased Stress Relief from Tavern, Will not enter the Abbey
etc.

They aren't available with launch because I don't want to postpone the Philo's release by a few more months.
Last edited by Rehtaelle; 14 Dec, 2020 @ 8:37pm
Miu 14 Dec, 2020 @ 2:26am 
Wow that sounds neat, are you gonna make it a new mod or just an update to this one?

Anyway, back to the topic; I think cosmic additive is too strong and I have a few suggestions:

1. Reduce health by 20-30%
2. Reduce blight/bleed resistance
3. Reduce dodge by 15 instead of 10 and perma-mark her
(Obviously just 1 of those)

I think malevolent pact should buff crits or speed as well, not really worth using right now

Sundering flesh should have some sort of self debuff like speed or accuracy, it's a bit too strong.

Everything else seems great so far, wanna try out those CC trinkets
Rehtaelle  [developer] 14 Dec, 2020 @ 2:37am 
Originally posted by Miumin06:
Wow that sounds neat, are you gonna make it a new mod or just an update to this one?

Anyway, back to the topic; I think cosmic additive is too strong and I have a few suggestions:

1. Reduce health by 20-30%
2. Reduce blight/bleed resistance
3. Reduce dodge by 15 instead of 10 and perma-mark her
(Obviously just 1 of those)

I think malevolent pact should buff crits or speed as well, not really worth using right now

Sundering flesh should have some sort of self debuff like speed or accuracy, it's a bit too strong.

Everything else seems great so far, wanna try out those CC trinkets
I'm not entirely sure tbh. I may make it an add-on mod if there's a substantial gap in time between now and then, which I assume there will be. I'll be working on other things for a while.

The thing is, dodge cut on that used to be 15, but prot doesn't matter when you're blighted or bleeding. Her blight and bleed resist is already only barely above that of Antiquarian (5% to be exact), and she really does only barely have more HP than Antiquarian. Less after one cast of Malevolent pact. So cutting her dodge in farmstead ended up being more trouble than it was worth. To that end, I'm comfortable with where it's at given that even with 30% PROT, she's utterly frail. This trinket mainly just means she doesn't have to rely solely upon Safeguard to bail her out, since safeguard and pact need to be used so sparingly in farmstead. I do appreciate the input though, just in this case I'd rather leave Additive in place (for now).

I'll continue to keep an eye on Sundering Flesh, though I'm not ready to make a move on any changes at this time.

At low levels, pact is a bit harder to justify, but a boost of 10 ACC and 20% DMG at max level is... Well that's Focus Ring + Legendary Bracer. This is why her base damage at low levels starts out higher than most, to offset her support skills being less desirable early on. (She levels out to have the same base damage as Highwayman, which leaves her being substantially weaker because of how highwayman handles his damage model)

This is an issue that Lamia presents, where she's effectively dead weight until reaching level 4 because even though the scaling makes sense on paper, she's just not that worth it early on.

So yes, her ability values will shift a bit as she levels up. But as mentioned, I'm keeping an eye on it for now.
Last edited by Rehtaelle; 14 Dec, 2020 @ 2:46am
Rehtaelle  [developer] 14 Dec, 2020 @ 2:41am 
PS: Refer to this for an example of MP's potential: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKYy_bd0JH0

It's just that the ability HAS to start off weak, and I have little options in regard to how I make that happen. Do I make the MAX HP cut even worse? You'd never want to use it. Do I make it cause more stress early on? You'd never want to use it.
Last edited by Rehtaelle; 14 Dec, 2020 @ 2:44am
Miu 14 Dec, 2020 @ 2:48am 
Yeah I see your point, mine is still level 2 so I didn't see the scaling.
StarrySunset 14 Dec, 2020 @ 12:28pm 
What about a Mark on Breakdown if enemy is Stealthed? That would really help on higher levels since Occ can't really mark those annoying fish for 2 turns and the Dodge debuff is pretty good.
Rehtaelle  [developer] 14 Dec, 2020 @ 12:32pm 
To add mark, even with the condition of stealth, would add an extreme degree of value to the point of being excess. She's intentionally not meant to be added to mark teams, which is why Breakdown can "get away" with having as many attributes as it has. I appreciate the suggestion though, but this was just something that was established early on in her creation.
StarrySunset 14 Dec, 2020 @ 12:43pm 
I see. Thanks for you time and for this great class!
Rehtaelle  [developer] 14 Dec, 2020 @ 1:39pm 
Originally posted by StarrySunset:
I see. Thanks for you time and for this great class!
Thank you for giving her a try!
Have not tried the mod itself just yet, but I love the way you put the information on the mod page. I hope this becomes the norm.
Miu 14 Dec, 2020 @ 10:31pm 
Originally posted by SnootyPooty:
Have not tried the mod itself just yet, but I love the way you put the information on the mod page. I hope this becomes the norm.
Only thing missing is an origin comic and a more obvious diary link.
Rehtaelle  [developer] 15 Dec, 2020 @ 12:34am 
Originally posted by Miumin06:
Originally posted by SnootyPooty:
Have not tried the mod itself just yet, but I love the way you put the information on the mod page. I hope this becomes the norm.
Only thing missing is an origin comic and a more obvious diary link.
I know exactly what I want in an origin comic. But art commissions are expensive.

As for the journal pages, anyone who doesn't go all the way down to see trinkets likely wouldn't read them anyway. I wanted the link to be out of the way of the most important info because first impressions are everything when people flip through the workshop.
Miu 15 Dec, 2020 @ 1:02am 
Originally posted by Rehtaelle:
As for the journal pages, anyone who doesn't go all the way down to see trinkets likely wouldn't read them anyway. I wanted the link to be out of the way of the most important info because first impressions are everything when people flip through the workshop.
Nah man, I'm saying the journal link blends in with the rest, doubt most people would even notice it.

Though if you plan to put the journal in the game that won't be an issue (maybe as a reward for the nightmare event?).
Rehtaelle  [developer] 15 Dec, 2020 @ 2:06am 
Originally posted by Miumin06:
Originally posted by Rehtaelle:
As for the journal pages, anyone who doesn't go all the way down to see trinkets likely wouldn't read them anyway. I wanted the link to be out of the way of the most important info because first impressions are everything when people flip through the workshop.
Nah man, I'm saying the journal link blends in with the rest, doubt most people would even notice it.

Though if you plan to put the journal in the game that won't be an issue (maybe as a reward for the nightmare event?).
They were intended to go into the game, but adding journal pages to your mod is generally discouraged. It *can* be done, but one slip up can corrupt a save file, so it's generally seen as just not worth it. Plus what I initially wrote for some entries was apparently beyond the character limit of journals anyway.
Miu 15 Dec, 2020 @ 3:02am 
Bummer, well can you make her unable to get a guilty conscience? Kinda weird for an atheist to be rushing to confession booths.
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