What about this, +25 health, -15% melee damage from the front, -25% less cloak, you become more of a tanky spy, designed to be a spy killer yourself but you lose some sneaking

I'm thinking a stock knife, with a special taunt kill to people also holding the knife. The taunt could be a fencing bout, and the loser gets stabbed.

+25% movement speed when undisguised and active (weapon has to be out for the speed buff)
+100% damage (every knife does 30-40 damage, +100% damage = 60 damage)
-No backstabs
-30% slower movement speed when invisible
-20% faster cloak drain

Lets fail spies run away easier at the cost of sneaking potential. Would also help spies focus on fooling enemies via disguise. Dead Ringer + This would make fail spies even more fail.

+Has a larger melee range (+20%)
+20% Protection to melee damage
-You can't backstab if the enemy is at full health, he must be at 200 or less.
-Can't backstab if you didn't hit it with your gun or melee

instant cloak and decloak is the way to go. try incorperating that

20% Less Melee damage, (Given And Taken)
20% Less Backstab Damage ( Heavy wont get backstabbed for ease now)
Special taunt to other with same weapon(Duel) Random winner if its against enemys)
No Primary Weapon

Pros:
+100% more damage when active and undisguised
+While moving with the Rapier equipped, charges up the Lunge meter
+Lunge Ability: Using 50% of the Lunge meter, the Spy can right click when this weapon is active to make a quick leap and points his rapier ahead of him, dealing 50% of the enemies remaining health (example: 160 hp heavy goes down to 80 hp after getting hit by lunge) as damage and passing through all enemies hit (Can Lunge in midair or after a jump for more leap distance)
Neutral:
Backstabs only do critical damage, but nawt in the 500, gain 2 confidence instead of 1 with a backstab.
Confidence (need a better name for this ability) - For each kill you make, you gain +10 max health, +5% all-round damage resist, and +5% cloak time, if you die, you lose all Confidence Stacks. Confidence stacks up to 5 times.
Cons:
-25 health when equipped on loadout
-20% less cloak time
15% more vulnerable to all damage

Reype duh Rapierz :D :D :D :D :D

10% Extra attack range
10% Less damage
Backstaps only deal 100-175 damage
+10% cloak
When hit by an enemy the damage will be reflected for only 10%
When being hit by an melee Reflects 20% Damage and get crit for 1 sec
+10HP per kill. Stacks lost upon death

10% Extra Attack Range
No Cloak
Can 1 hit other spies with same weapon

Try this:
-+25% speed when undisguised, cloaked and weapon is active
-can't disguise
-When you backstab an opponent you emediatly disguise as the player you killed but the body does not turn invisible
-you may backstab while invisible

What do you think??

Originally posted by Rouge_Shadow:

-you may backstab while invisible

This part in particular, but rather the whole suggestion, sounds pretty overpowered. I can only imagine being backstabbed by someone I cant see at all, and how fair that would be.. (It wouldnt be).

I like pooger's idea of it doing more damage VS spys, and Valkyrie's tanky spy idea seems most realistic: not overpowered, is relevant to the model, changes the role of the class slightly, could be fun. A combination of the two might be neato.

My view of the weapon:

Pros:
+25 Max Health (125 HP > 150 HP)
+30% Damage Bonus (40 Base damage> 52 Base Damage. NOT COUNTING BACKSTAB)

Cons:
+50% more damage taken from melee attacks
Cannot Cloak while weapon is active

The weapon will enchance the spy's survivability, while the damage bonus will come in handy in those situations when your in a melee battle against another class. However it is balanced by being advised to stay out of melee combat 1-on-1s as you will take more melee damage. You also won't be able to make a cloaking escape without having to switch your weapon.

i think no clock but more health and damage

Originally posted by zacborg:

i think no clock but more health and damage

I agree with you, that was a good idea, there's already the Eternal Reward that prevents you from disguising. Though, i have to point ou that even if you can't choose your disguise with it you can still have one after having backstabbed someone.

That rapier must have some way to cloak in special circumstances, or make the spy less vulnerable when disguised, so that the disadvatage of loosing cloak ability is compensed.

+25 health, normal melee damage, no discuise, -50% cloak duration, make a set watch that is just a smoke screen deploy in which sentries cannot track through.