Age of Wonders III

Age of Wonders III

Corruptor Class
Doopliss  [developer] 8 Jan, 2021 @ 8:23pm
Balance Discussions and Feedback
The Ascendant's damage output is garbage. You have to build a whole tier 2 building, you don't even get werewolves, and all it does is float up to enemies and hit them with a whiffle bat? Don't even bother.

(But seriously, I promise I'll pay attention to balance chat in this discussion, at least while the mod is still supported)
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Showing 1-15 of 51 comments
Gladen 9 Jan, 2021 @ 1:43pm 
I tried the mod very cool and impressive.

However, a little bit of feedback.

You need set some starting units.

I believe in UnitPioneer.rpk you can find this.

The unit sets needs be defined as I did not start with any units at all except for leader. Also no settlers.

I know its a lots of work and your mod may be in progress still.

Regarding random heroes it's a lots of creation for each race.

If you intend to stay true for the "game balance" all races need 1 male and 1 female hero. Means that you need 18 random heroes in total for all 9 races. It's your mod of course and free to decide however you want :)

Premade leaders you can create as many as you like.

I have not checked through everything yet as there is heck of things added and great job on icons.

Cheers
/Refineus

P.s VfxRob and Liberty Valance is the same person under different sydonyms :)
Last edited by Gladen; 9 Jan, 2021 @ 1:44pm
Doopliss  [developer] 9 Jan, 2021 @ 1:59pm 
Thanks Refineus! I set things up for the title races, but it looks like I followed the class guide a bit too closely and neglected the DLC races. An update should be ready in an hour or so for their starting armies and settlers. If you're not seeing starting armies and settlers for the non-DLC races, that's a whole other problem.

Regarding adding heroes and leaders to the pool, it was a deliberate choice on my part not to. I didn't want this mod's additions to intrude on people playing the game as a normal class, and I was a bit concerned that the AI wouldn't be able to use the features intelligently (though testing suggests the heroes work alright). I might add a plugin for base leaders and heroes later if it's a popular request, but the intention was essentially for it to be something for the player to toy around with. Subject to balance and QA, this was intended as the final version.
Last edited by Doopliss; 9 Jan, 2021 @ 2:02pm
Gladen 9 Jan, 2021 @ 2:31pm 
Played Halflings which could have affected it.
Doopliss  [developer] 9 Jan, 2021 @ 2:46pm 
That confirms my own tests. Vanilla races work, halflings/frostlings/tigrans don't. Working on a patch now.
Doopliss  [developer] 9 Jan, 2021 @ 4:14pm 
There we go! It should be resolved for any future downloads.
That Human 11 Jan, 2021 @ 2:39pm 
Will you add the units to spawn lists? Map structures would be hard to implement without compatibility issues, but maybe find a good spot to make them spawn defending structures so they can be encountered in the wild?
Doopliss  [developer] 11 Jan, 2021 @ 5:05pm 
That's a tricky one, as changing the number of structures on the map is a pretty major balance change for early-game dungeon delving (and, therefore, how much production-rushing people can do early). On top of that, I'm not sure how interesting the low-tier units would be for players to fight - based on some early auto-resolve testing, I'm not sure I can get the AI to shapeshift their werewolves no matter how high I turn the AI priority up. I'd say that I'm very hesitant to do that, even compared to adding AI leaders and heroes.
Last edited by Doopliss; 11 Jan, 2021 @ 5:05pm
Sometimes Corruptor Leader's weapon machete will go missing.
AI Corruptor always summon a lot of bats,but just produce few class-special units.That's because AI's troop-Composition has been set up in editor,before AI build high-level units he must achieve the ratio(set up in editor) of low-level units to total amount of his army. You could limit the amount of T1 summon unit ,then leave AI some space to build high-level units.(It's the Solution of Original aow3.)
About the skill "Transform",I have some concerns.A unit could Transform to another unit,that's OK.But as far as I know,if he Transform back to original one,all his skills will refresh,include the skills which could only be used once during a combat.Have you solved the problem?
Also,AI doesn't understande the latent earnings of some spells or skills.He just care superficial buffs.So AI never use Death Mark,Swap Locations,Phoenix Warrior,etc."Why I use a fruitless skill?"And Phase will always be used to attack,never be used to get a smart position.So if you want AI shapeshift their werewolves,please add some superficial earnings on the shapeshift.Just like Original aow3,+15 hp.Or +2 melee damage for 1 turn.Then AI will use it when the unit is injured or want to attack.
My English is poor,I hope you could understand my meaning.Sorry,and Thank you for your excellent work.
That Human 12 Jan, 2021 @ 7:05am 
I meant implementing them onto spawn lists, but yeah. I think that the best solution is to place them already in werewolf form onto appropiate lists. It's of course quite tricky to find one, but the succubi spawn list would probably work perfectly.

The reason why is that they fit thematically with what else can spawn, and the list is not used for player spawns beyond the "battle" size starting armies and in the case of pirate nests, they will simply pick a unit that can traverse water instead.
You can even place T1-T2 units on the list and it will be balanced upon map generation, as the game balances these spawns by power, not what list they are on.

And for something different, I think the fairy animations would fit the bats better.
Doopliss  [developer] 12 Jan, 2021 @ 7:51am 
Originally posted by 好想养只宠物啊:
My English is poor,I hope you could understand my meaning.Sorry,and Thank you for your excellent work.
Your English is quite good, and thank you for your advice here and in the normal comments! I'll definitely be making some changes based on it. That goes for you as well, That Human.

Regarding transforming, I have solved that problem. Only Whisperers and Skinshifters can transform back during a battle. The Skinshifter has no one-use abilities, and both of the Whisperer's forms have the same one-use ability, so it doesn't get reset. They also have special properties that stop them getting XP when they transform. There's one spell that can give Whisperers and Skinshifters a new one-use ability, but units that are granted properties by magic keep those properties when they transform, so it also keeps its cooldown between forms.

Regarding the AI, you're right that it doesn't know what it's doing. The idea about superficial earnings is a good one, and I might make the Beast Form werewolves weaker and give them a big stat buff to make it balance out - that way, they'll at least use Beast Form in autoresolve. I'm a bit scared to give them a real buff, because I think werewolves might already be a bit too strong. Putting a limit on bat summons is also a good idea.

That said, I won't be changing all the spells and abilities to things the AI knows how to use better. My number one goal is for the mod to be interesting for people playing as Corruptors, and I wanted to come up with spells and abilities that weren't too much like things in the normal game. That means I had to do weird things in the editor that don't make much sense to the AI. I said in the description that I suggest that players don't make AI Corruptors at all, and those are some of the reasons why.

The best thing might be to make a "Fake Corruptor" class that has simpler versions of the units and spells. That way, the players can get all the fancy spells and abilities, and if they want to fight against AI Corruptors they'll have simpler abilities instead. That would also be a good chance to add Corruptor units to the spawn lists (and the succubus list is definitely a good idea, if you really want to run into them in the wild). I'm happy to do that if it would interest people, but it would obviously take time.

Regarding the bats' animations, I don't think I can give them fairy animations without also giving them a fairy skeleton - so their wings wouldn't move at all or they'd flap around really fast like dragonfly wings, and their body would stay very still aside from that. I know the animations are a bit goofy, but I think this is the best I can do for a bat model.
Gladen 12 Jan, 2021 @ 11:58am 
I'm testing currently Corrupter class as Humans.

Getting a bit ahead in class in a game and will report with more thoughts as I progress. To begin with:

The leader is probably the strongest so far. His ranged weapon is way to strong for a leader. In comparison that most single channel does 8 damage and multi channel does 7 like blow pipe. Consider reducing frost by - 1 so it's 4+4 frost and spirit. If you want to compensate for the loss of damage by further reduction to 4 frost and 3 spirit you can add a physical channel.

Description missing typhos of damage number when hovering over weapon item.

The class feature insane amount of healing while alot of units has quite strong potential. The healing of two different tier II units are overlapping with each other. Both have cursed and healing making them along side with fire and Frost very easy to maintan and level up. Then they have their somewhat unique approach of werewolf and vampire. At least one of the healing and cursed should be replaced.

The harrier bat is very interesting unit. Sometimes weak, sometimes not. Charge maybe little to strong for a tier 1 scout. Perhaps on gold rank it seem reasonable, or a sonar ability forcing spirit weakness or something like lesser form weakening.

I will return with more on later when I reach more units.
Last edited by Gladen; 12 Jan, 2021 @ 12:27pm
Doopliss  [developer] 12 Jan, 2021 @ 1:29pm 
You're definitely right about the bats. They were intended as being low-damage harassers, but somehow their physical strength got to 9 while Crows have 6. I'm not sure what you mean by Charge, as they're not intended to have Charge and I don't think anything in the mod would be giving them Charge. If you mean Guard Breaking, I think they'd be more interesting if they kept Guard Breaking and got their stats nerfed to compensate, as it lets them play a kind of unique role in battles.

I'm less sure about the healer units, as they seem pretty in line with Reanimators in design - I sort of assumed they would be weaker than Reanimators because of the single-channel damage. Reanimators are crazy powerful in general, but I'm going for somewhat Necromancer-like balance where you have a stupidly good mage, then two kind of filler units, and then another powerful Tier 3 unit at the end. You're definitely going to think they're unreasonable once you unlock Nocturnal Pets, though.

Unless I'm missing an interaction somewhere, the leader's ranged attack is already at 4 frost and 4 spirit. I don't mind going lower, though.
Gladen 13 Jan, 2021 @ 12:26pm 
I intentially said charge on bat's but it's not actually true I had a warlord hero with me. Sorry for that.

I made a typho regarding item. My concern were 4 + 4 on damage channel and reduction to 4 + 3.

However concerning leader again, Slip away is a very powerful ability along with healing already from level 1. The cost for these two abilities is way too low in combination as you can get both on level up. Healing for 40 Hp every tactical battle in the beginning does make you invincible. I usually have problems in general keeping leaders alive and heroes as well. But now it's a cakewalk even with strong defenders set on.

In general have you set any class variation on class units? Humans with "throw net, blessed damage channels, blessed arrows, etc"?

Makes class units more diverse and innovative. Keeps them more unique and fresh.







StopSolo&HelpTeam 17 Jan, 2021 @ 6:18am 
While I approve the concept of making new classes, I think this one is missing a theme.
In-game mechanics is not a theme.
You could have spent one paragraph to write some lore.
Doopliss  [developer] 17 Jan, 2021 @ 11:14am 
This is the lore paragraph - it's a sort of vampirey werewolfey spookymancer. It's not in the description, because I figured the gist of it was clear from context.
Corruptors have learned to weave powerful curses with very little magical upkeep, and they mainly use this knowledge to spread these curses among their own people. Unlike Necromancers, most of a Corruptor's citizens are perfectly ordinary, but it is difficult to tell which ones aren't - the accursed can blend into polite society for years before revealing themselves, and many of them occupy positions of power even after doing so. The most prevalent Corruptor curses are vampirism and lycanthropy - while some Corruptors dedicate themselves to a single curse to the exclusion of the other, most that I have heard of wield both curses however they feel is most effective.' --'Gifted Lords of the Third Age' by Ralinstone Pedant, Chronicler

I've been informed that it's misclassified. An update is forthcoming for that and some other text fixes, some balance changes, and some tweaks to make the AI shapeshift their werewolves properly. Probably not for a few days, though.

Race variations are a good idea, but I'm likely going to push to get the race-generic class units balanced first to make sure the foundation is at least solid.
Last edited by Doopliss; 17 Jan, 2021 @ 11:16am
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