I liked that. But I think removing the double doors would make CTs on A being able to peak Ts in the bridge area. Instead, I've aways thought there should be a corridor just besides double door (it's left side, facing it from the Ts side.), going straight up to A bombsite ending in another double doors facing the bombsite. Then, the T's would have two points to attack, and the defending CTs wouldn't be all marking the same position in double doors, wich makes it impossible for the Ts to go in, and therefore, making this great map so unbalanced.

If that happens, we will have one CT defending and using his utilitaries in this new double doors where the Ts can come off really close to the bom, another one defending the old double doors, and another one maybe peaking the water. The other 2 CT's would defend B.

As for the B site, I think moving the spawn points as suggested in this layout would solve it. If the T's get there first, they have the peak advantage. And will force CT's to retreat and mark inside the bombsite.

Hey I already left some feedback in the comments, since this topic is focused on layout I'll copy paste it here (too lazy to rewrite it lul):


Nice remake! TBH I wouldn't mind a lot of experimenting with Aztec's layout. I believe if you keep the main areas looking like they do you could scramble them around to fix the timings. It would be fun to discover what layout actually works with Aztec's iconic areas. The bridge could still offer some sniper duel opportunities but it wouldn't be the only choke point for instance so that you can easily rotate if it's held too strongly. The A courtyard needs to keep the overhang balcony, large slope and the stairs but the entry points could be changed around to help balance once again.

The truly bad point when it comes to Aztec's balancing is the T's entry points. If it was more spread around, maybe with A and B being flipped around so that the bridge can be closer to mid, then you could move around the connectors and stuff to make the layout much nicer. I'd love to see that project happen :)

Originally posted by Number1:

But I think removing the double doors would make CTs on A being able to peak Ts in the bridge area.

I wanted to remove double doors because they are very bad angle to attack from as T and do not let Ts passively hold A to prevent aggressive CT pushes. Also, it's not very fun to try to squeeze into the double doors with teammates. I guess you could just add some random ancient rock block to block that sight line, but double doors really have to be changed.

Originally posted by Tynnyri:

Originally posted by Number1:

But I think removing the double doors would make CTs on A being able to peak Ts in the bridge area.

I wanted to remove double doors because they are very bad angle to attack from as T and do not let Ts passively hold A to prevent aggressive CT pushes. Also, it's not very fun to try to squeeze into the double doors with teammates. I guess you could just add some random ancient rock block to block that sight line, but double doors really have to be changed.

You could create a window like on dust2 B site. Extend the path behind the wall walking towards A and have a window ~5m away from double doors to provide a second entry point.

Originally posted by Hani:

Originally posted by Tynnyri:

I wanted to remove double doors because they are very bad angle to attack from as T and do not let Ts passively hold A to prevent aggressive CT pushes. Also, it's not very fun to try to squeeze into the double doors with teammates. I guess you could just add some random ancient rock block to block that sight line, but double doors really have to be changed.

You could create a window like on dust2 B site. Extend the path behind the wall walking towards A and have a window ~5m away from double doors to provide a second entry point.

Yeah, I agree with both of you...We are getting in a good layout. Providing a second entry point for A is a MUST in this map. And I agree the double doors are very narrow. You could change the doors angle (also like they did in D2 b site double doors) so now the doors would face the CT's corridor and would be a place where T's could clear before going through the doors. And I also agree it has to be a little more open. Adding a second entry point and giving T's a better view from the double doors would finally solve this choke point and would balance the map. As for the rest, I completely agree with the layout Tynnyri posted as I said earlier.

Just wondering if it is worth simply adding a new route?
The connector needs removing though... horrible addition.
https://imgur.com/a/QtD54jw

nice good karta

If the connector was removed, the CTs would have a hard time rotating just like in Ts from cobble

Originally posted by Tabris:

If the connector was removed, the CTs would have a hard time rotating just like in Ts from cobble

Yeah, that's the point. If you've ever played aztec in 1.6 or before they added the connector, it was actually possible to plant the bomb. But now it's actually faster to rotate from site to site than it is to move from any T entry point into the bombsite and plant.

https://i.imgur.com/FG3zC8Z.jpg

As Tynnyri points out in the first post;


Connector timings
- either needs removing or the timings changed for CT rotation.
- after taking A and planting the bomb the connector makes it way too easy for the CT side to get to A early

A Site
- CT vision of water needs adjusting so that T's can creep to side stairs for access to B
- CT double door vision should remain. This choke point is a classic part of Aztec strategy.
- Wall bangs on the stone catwalk over water are annoying and some rocks to stop this would help. Rocks should be added to match crouch height only though as wall bang Head Shots should still be allowed.

T Side Double Doors
- From the T side make the door on the left hand side look like it has fallen off of its hinges. It's been a long time since the original aztec and things do rot....
- This will open up the area for a wide peek onto the CT AWP that always sits at A double doors.

Water beneath Wooden Bridge
- If CTs have spawn advantage for wooden bridge it makes a water push from the T side really difficult even for quality players
- add a rubble hiding point? Collapsed wall/roof?

New T Route
- Add in a new route to A
- This will give 3 routes to the T side and create the optimal square and cross map pattern
- Means the AWP on A has to cover two angles instead of just one (T double doors)

T Spawn
- Adjust so that the timings at wooden bridge and double doors are more equal.
- Possibly give the T side advantage on double doors and CT the advantage on Wooden bridge?

How easy is it to get the thunder and rain back in to the environment because this elevated the map above the normal. Don't forget the thunder going off as T's pushed the wooden bridge... great audio cue for the CTs to rotate.

Really enjoying this remake and it would be amazing to see aztec added back into the map pool.

Keep up the great work Henge!!

Yeah that CT connector A to Mid is rubbish, completely destroys the map's rotation. It's CT spawn and T spawn and mid that need changing, adding connectors isn't gonna fix the rest.

Originally posted by Tynnyri:

These suggestions are split into 3 parts, Legacy, Balance and Misc.

Legacy is for reverting changes made in CS:GO that made the map worse.
Balance is for changes to increase map balance.
Misc is for little unimportant things that improve fun value but might break the map.
Note: A and B are placed in their original 1.6 and CS:S places. A site is the iconic aztec pyramid bombsite. This was switched in CS:GO for unknown reason.

Imgur link of all proposed changes: https://imgur.com/a/WgD97rf

ye agree

Originally posted by Yolo Swaggins:

https://i.imgur.com/FG3zC8Z.jpg

New T Route
- Add in a new route to A
- This will give 3 routes to the T side and create the optimal square and cross map pattern
- Means the AWP on A has to cover two angles instead of just one (T double doors)

T Spawn
- Adjust so that the timings at wooden bridge and double doors are more equal.
- Possibly give the T side advantage on double doors and CT the advantage on Wooden bridge?

On this remake version, Ts get to Double Doors faster than CTs. Doesn't help them much, because CTs can play on mid. (overpass) Of course, you can smoke off overpass with two smokes from T spawn, but the smokes have to be thrown very high up, so they actually pop off slower than best spawn can push out of Double Doors.

If CTs have advantage on wooden bridge, it is nearly impossible to go water as T. This is already the case on this remake, it's painful to play against CTs who rush bridge and jump down to water. If you get bad spawn, you can't do anything against that.

I myself don't like the idea of adding a new T entry to A site, because you can already quite easily take the site from Double Doors alone if you smoke off Overpass.

I really do wish this map would get into competitive map pool someday. It plays incredibly well if you know some basic smokes on T side.

top

Hm, I actually made this post inspired greybox version of aztec and playtested it, seemed to be mostly fine, but Double Doors are still a problem. Especially as molotovs and wallbangs make it completely CT sided, even with more tight timings favoring T side.

There's many ideas for fixes and I can't possibly playtest all of them, such as:

-Move Double Doors forward to be after the catwalk to mid.
-Add more walls/boxes in front of Double Doors so they can't be smoked or molotoved
-Add new entry to A site
-Make CT side of A site less open, so it's easier to smoke off
-Replace Double Doors with a wider passage that cannot be smoked or molotoved