Europa Universalis IV

Europa Universalis IV

Gensokyo Mod EU4 ver.0.15
Yuntaek 11 Apr, 2014 @ 5:47pm
Hakurei is OP, SDM just feels ♥♥♥♥ty.
I'll admit, I'm not very familiar with Touhou as a whole, but that allows me to critique the mod as far as gameplay goes without bias. I was able to conquer most of Asia as the Hakurei Shrine fairly easily up until the early 1700s.

Enforcing peace against inter-daimyo wars until you get a decent foothold to have enough troops to steamroll the rest of Japan with your ridiculously OP troops worked well, but I'd expect a nerf to the free 30% troop morale in their ideas. In general, there was never a real challenge as far as wars and battles went.

Tradition was somewhat manageable and definitely had its challenges, but I felt like most of it was out of my control, which was frustrating, and I felt like the negative events were too regular. That said, there's really no point in switching out Reimu for the other leader as zero tradition will leave you with revolts and core-creation cost isn't much of an issue if you're vassal-annexing (l0l free +5 dip rep). Even with Reimu getting less military monarch points than the other, I had too many military points than I knew what to do with, even with three military ideas of five. All in all, I enjoyed the experience.


I tried SDM today and ended up flat-out quitting. You can't make any allies with the -5 dip rep barring the small Orthodox nations near you, assuming they haven't all rivaled you already.

You can't expand north because Hungary, you can't expand east because Moldavia is a vassal of Poland, you can't expand south because Wallachia just became your vassal and you have zero hope of ever integrating any vassals within a reasonable amount of time without being deep into Dip ideas and hoping to have a level 1 statesman because god knows you can't afford any more than that.

Your only option is to cheese your way into a war with Serbia because its only border with you is its capital, meaning you can't fabricate a claim on it, then take Bosnia and appease the Ottomans and hope they don't come knocking because you now share a border with them. You could take Wallachia early, but that defeats the purpose of getting it as a vassal.

Then again, the -5 dip rep defeats the purpose of any early vassals, so I guess you could take it and hope the Ottomans are too busy taking its cores back and destroying the Mamluks.

You're broke, and to top it all off, you get 5 inflation every few years in addition to kissing your prestige, stability, tradition, and 100 of each monarch point goodbye. Random and regular negative events that seem like they're just there to be there and wreck your ♥♥♥♥ (-500 tradition because taking 100 just isn't enough). No positive events that actually help. I don't need infantry combat ability or discipline for about 1 month when I'm not at war and I don't need 20 tradition if I'm going to lose it a few months later anyway.

Hakurei was somewhat manageable in that I could choose which way I wanted to be butt♥♥♥♥ed and deal with it and do damage control. SDM just rammed its ♥♥♥♥ in every which hole and them some. Repeatedly.

I like the prestige decay and revolt risk bonus as a Scarlet Principality as it helps with the negative events, but that doesn't help with how ♥♥♥♥ty it feels it play the nation.

I haven't touched the Kirisame Group, but my rear end needs to recuperate some.
Last edited by Yuntaek; 11 Apr, 2014 @ 5:49pm
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xkuripuri  [developer] 11 Apr, 2014 @ 6:45pm 
The Koakuma event for Scarlets got a fix, but I think Steam's Workshop didn't take it for some reason. It's only meant to take 5 tradition away, but the Tradition is actually (in the code) on a scale from 0.0 to 1.0, so making it say "-5" tradition, is actually 500.

What you've done is kind of my own personal experience with Remilia as well. She seems to get Meiling napping on the job a little TOO frequently, and it can drain your treasury very fast. I've had the thing trigger like 3 times in a row, making me lose 70~ ducats. I haven't seen as much of the Tradition nuking, although I know the Charisma Break event can do that, I guess I kept getting the Meiling one instead.

Your experience with Reimu is new to me, I was always playing colonization with her and praying the Shogun didn't come kick my front door in and wreck me. I probably have less a grasp on the game mechanics though, but Reimu might be a bit OP.

Kirisame Group I think is fairly balanced, although my view is skewed in I was using the Wasteland Removal mod, so I could just expand westward across Africa, instead of having to go around.

I'll pass along what you said though. I think Remilia needs some buffs desperately, because I think she has potential to be really powerful, but she's in an absolutely horrible starting location that requires a lot of things to go your way to really work out for you.
Alice  [developer] 11 Apr, 2014 @ 8:43pm 
SDM seems to draw the most polar opposite criticisms. The other lead, chatnoir, seems convinced (or previously was) that they're OP since one player managed to conquer Ottomans as them. I personally managed to crush Hungary pretty early on (That was before I started fleshing them out more). On the other hand I've been hearing that they get crushed by Hungary or some other neighbor before too long quite a lot.

I'm honestly not sure what this is about diplo rep, though... I deliberately gave them a couple more negative events than positive (and I tried to scale it so that the really hefty events happened like maybe twice in a century, whether they're positive or negative, and the lighter events every couple of years... Red Moon alone is meant to fire every two or three) specifically so that Chatnoir wouldn't have to nerf SDM into the dirt. Before the last few changes, they were probably the most powerful of the three factions. I'll have to playtest them myself again soon and make some appropriate changes along the way.

As for HKS being OP - I'm honestly surprised to hear that, given that most of the sentiment I've heard about them has been that HKS has pretty much nowhere to go. It seems strange to me that they can even enforce peace on the Daimyos. I will be changing their tech group so they mirror Chinese tech, though, so battles shouldn't (hopefully) be nearly as one-sided as you say they were.

I'm starting to think it might be good to have a dev copy so that we can playtest these things ourselves in a controlled environment before updating the main mod, because when I'm working, I have no idea how my changes will mesh with the others'.
Yuntaek 12 Apr, 2014 @ 7:39am 
Ah, -500 did seem a little odd. I'm not sure what the events are called, but they're a duo and I managed to get it twice in twenty-three years. I said screw it and left myself at -3 stability because I had no revolt risk unless I also had zero tradition (~1% revolt risk after ruler bonus, huzzah), but that wasn't too big of an issue since I could just take the -1 stability/+20 tradition choice in that one event.

I hopped back on to see if I could get the soul-crushing events to pop up again and I noticed SDM received a buff to its dip rep malus to -2. From a gameplay standpoint, I like it. The moment I tried to annex my vassal and saw NEVER on my screen was a definite first and it just didn't seem right.

In my Reimu game, I threw some guarantees whenever I could to SDM and KG to keep them alive. KG didn't really need it and was doing pretty well actually (14 provinces at 1719, allied and bordering the Ottomans), but SDM was barely staying alive with two of her original three provinces (and not having any alliances, shocker). Quite frankly, I'm surprised SDM was alive at all.

Reimu was definitely a challenge and I had fun planning out my enforced peaces strat. Imo, taking into consideration where she starts (let's be honest, aside from numbers, Ming is pretty ♥♥♥♥), her only challenge is taking Japan. Once she does so, everyone else is just easy pickings and once you can take Ming on (and stop Muscovy from colonizing much), it's gg. Chinese tech would definitely help.

As a side note, I feel events in general feel out of place. Partly because of the story and partly because of the gameplay impact. Like in xkuripuri's case, how many times is Meiling going to nap? I don't know her story, but I want an option to do something about it. Let me take a prestige or better relations over time hit and scold her to make her not slack off for a lower chance or no chance of the event popping up for a while, or a stability hit to fire her and then an event where she comes back after she's shaped up for a good event + no more sleeping on the job. And like in my case. After seeing *that* event for the first time, I was like, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, okay, I'll deal. And then it came and went again, along with most of my enthusiasm.

The main game will have its events sorted so that the more impactful events happen less often, with most major events happening once or even not at all. Although you'd probably want a major event to pop up at least once in the case for a mod like this so that you can get the full experience of a nation in one playthrough (unless there's something like a shared event between two or more of the countries). It just doesn't feel right to have the same events popping up when there aren't so many events in the first place.

I apologize for most of my rationales being 'it just doesn't feel right'.

I don't think I'm going to try KG anytime soon as they seem to be in a way too comfortable position near the Africans and the about-to-be-♥♥♥♥-on Mamluks with the Ottomans nearby to ally. SDM is worth an eventual second try though.

Maybe this is coming from the alpha release of the Game of Thrones mod, which was very, very, very alpha, but I enjoyed my Reimu playthrough and I was impressed with most of the detail that was already put in. I look forward to seeing this mod continue. It has a lot of potential.
Last edited by Yuntaek; 12 Apr, 2014 @ 7:45am
Alice  [developer] 12 Apr, 2014 @ 2:46pm 
The events do have a reason for being there, but I wouldn't really expect somebody to understand why without actually knowing the way the characters tend to be portrayed. Meiling is the gate-guard to the SDM, and she's a great fighter, but at the same time she's very often portrayed as dozing off on the job. That's just kind of intrinsic to her character within the fanbase's mind.

At the moment, if you don't want to deal with those events, it should be possible to not take the advisor decision for her or Koa -- IIRC one of the triggers for any of them is having their respective "in-court" modifiers, although I may have accidentally left it out for Meiling.

Most of these events aren't meant to fire often, really.
chatnoir17  [developer] 13 Apr, 2014 @ 1:31pm 
The game balance is one of the most difficult things to achieve, especially for such a character game.
We have to add flavors, but they should be not too punitive. On the other hand, adding too many positive flavors makes Touhou factions overpowered.
There is another problem with different play styles. Some people want to see even AI Touhou factions expand somewhat, or try to avoid that these factions are annexed by others. Other players want more challenge.

Touhou factions have very powerful NIs with ruler modifiers in average, so we tried to weaken them by events. We can easily change how often these events fire, and have already reduced the possibility of some events. On the other hand, we would like to see flavor events with Touhou pictures XD, so we might add some positive events, especially about the republican tradition. In vanilla, the balance of positive and negative events is about 7:3 or 6:4, so "the player can experience positive events in total" would be the right answer.
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