RimWorld

RimWorld

Adeptus Astartes (Space Marines 40k)
Zaeryn Carine 27 Aug, 2021 @ 1:20am
Balance Suggestions
I don't know how much more powerful than normal humans you want Astartes to be but here's some things to consider:

If your Gene-Seed is a boost applied to a single body part like the torso then it still allows other implants to be added and unbalance the Astartes or just makes them op to begin with.

For instance, a vanilla Jogger pawn has a move speed of 5-cells/sec, boosted by Archotech Legs and a Bionic Heart to 7.9, which drops to 4.45 after a total of 22 damage to the legs. Your Astartes with just Archotech Legs has a 16.7 ms, which only drops to 5.45 after one leg has been destroyed and the other has taken 25 damage. My idea of an Astartes has a 15.12 ms, which drops to 4.48 after one leg is destroyed and the other takes 11 damage. At 25 damage to their remaining leg they would become incapable of walking.

A vanilla pawn with Archotech Arms is reduced from a 165% to a 98% Surgery Success Chance by taking a total of 22 damage to the arms, while your Astartes with Arch Arms goes from a 352% to a 224% SSC even after losing an arm and taking 25 damage to the other. My Astartes would have a 220% SSC, which drops to 98% if they take 15 damage to each arm.

Therefore, I think it would be best if there were multiple implants that replace most of the body. Because there are only so many body parts that can be replaced, some gene-seed implants may need to be combined(I.E. Mucranoid and Melanochrome, Biscopea and Ossmodula) as adding new parts alters how likely each body part is to be hit. This also reduces how much Gene-Seed is necessary to make a full Astartes.

Also, the Torso, Pelvis, Head, Neck, Skull and Brain still act as if natural parts even when made bionic. Neck implants remove the entire head and all attached parts without killing the pawn who can move and act as if they still had a head.


All that said, this is my recommendation for Astartes implants:

Sus-an Membrane(Skull): 100% eff, Medical Potency +50%

Catalepsean Node(Brain): 100% efficiency, Rest Fall Factor 0.4x, Rest Rate Multiplier +40%, Hunger Rate 0.5x, Mental Break -34%

Occulobe(Eyes): 200% eff, 6.5 Shooting Accuracy

Lyman's Ear(Ears): 200% eff, 5 Melee Dodge Chance

Neuroglottis(Nose): 200% eff, Negotiation Ability +32%, Trade Price Improvement +34%, Social Impact +50%, Tame Animal Chance +33%, Train Animal Chance +36%, Toxic Sensitivity -10%

Betcher's Gland(Jaw): 200% eff, Eating +20%, 3.9 Range, 17 Damage, 40% Armor Penetration, 90% Touch Range Acc, 0.75-sec Warm-Up, 0.75-sec Cooldown, 1 'Round'

Melanocranoid(Torso): 100% eff, -16-C Comfy Temp Ming, +24-C Comfy Temp Max, Toxic Sensitivity -10%

Omophagea(Spine): 100% eff, Global Learn Factor +50%

The Maintainer(Heart): 200% eff, Natural Healing Factor 3x

Multi-Lung(Lungs): 200% eff, Toxic Sensitivity -10%

Preomnor(Stomach): 200% eff, Hunger Rate 0.33x, Toxic Sensitivity -15%, Food Poisoning Chance Factor 0x

Larraman's Organ(Liver): 200% eff, Rest Fall Factor 0.5x, Immunity Gain Speed +50%, Toxic Sensitivity -15%

Oolitic Kidney(Kidneys): 200% eff, Immunity Gain Speed +50%, Toxic Sensitivity -10

The Black Carapace(Sternum): 100% eff, Move Speed +1.5, Global Work Speed +40%

Biscodula(Ribcage): 100% eff, Carrying Capacity +50, Move Speed +0.5, Global Work Speed +10%, Incoming Damage Factor 0.5x

Astartes Arm(Shoulders): 200% eff, 30 Damage, 20% Armor Penetration, 1.5-sec Cooldown

Astartes Leg(Legs): 150% eff, Carrying Capacity +50, 2.5 Melee Dodge Chance, 40 Damage, 20% Armor Penetration, 2-sec Cooldown

An Astartes with the above balance can move, work, eat, heal and rest 3x faster than normal, has 6x carry capacity and immunity gain speed, takes half damage from all attacks and has 90% toxin resistance. They have a Mental Break Threshold of 1%, take about 6x longer to become Hungry and 5x longer to become Tired. They can withstand temperatures ranging from 0`C or 32`F(freezing) to 50`C or 122`F(RW animal max) without clothing, having higher ranged accuracy, melee damage and melee dodge chance and there are other bonuses like better taming/training/trading/social skills, etc. I didn't give any Pain or Bleed reductions because Bionics do not feel pain or bleed so only an Astartes' pelvis, skull, torso, neck, head and brain could feel pain and only the last four could bleed or scar.

Because the Tough Trait reduces damage taken by 50%, combined with Biscodula an Astartes would take only 25% damage. As this might be OP it may be best for the Biscodula to not give dmg resistance, which would make pawns with the Tough Trait the "only viable" candidates to become Astartes. Additionally, as the Iron-Willed Trait reduces Mental Break by -18% you may want the Catalepsean Node to only reduce it by -16% instead of -34% so that Tough and Iron-Willed pawns are among the most viable Astartes candidates, with the addition of Jogger being the perfect 3 mix.

I don't know how skilled you are at modding but if you created a Projenoid Gland implant for the pelvis it could generate Gene-Seed overtime that could be harvested to make more implants. I.E. In 40K lore it takes 5 years for the first Proj Gland to mature, which may be too long in RW but each Proj Gland in the colony reduces the time it takes to generate GS. If limbs don't cost GS to make then at a rate of 1 every 12 days you could get 20 GS every 4-years to make a full Astartes, while 4 Proj Glands in the colony would increase that to 1 Astartes/year. Prisoners/Slaves/Servitors could be used to harvest GS.


A vanilla RW Human with the Jogger Trait has a Move Speed of 5-cells/sec, increased to 7.5 with Go-Juice.
An Astartes Jogger with the above balance has a MS of 15.12, increased to 18.62 with GJ.

If Power Armor reduces MS by 1 then the Human has a MS of 4, increased to 6 with GJ.
In PA the Astartes moves at 12.96, increased to 15.96 with GJ.

If Term Armor reduces MS by 2 then the Human has a MS of 3, increased to 4.5 with GJ.
In TA the Astartes moves at 10.8, increased to 13.3 with GJ.

If Heavy weapons like the Hvy Bolter reduce MS by 0.5 then the Human has a MS of 4.5/ 3.5 in PA/ 2.5 in TA, increased to 6.75/ 5.25/ 3.75 with GJ.
With Hvy wpn the Astartes moves at 14.04/ 11.88/ 9.72, increased to 17.29/ 14.63/ 11.97 with GJ.

If Super Hvy wpns like the Assault/Plasma Cannon reduce MS by 1 then the Human has a MS of 4/ 3/ 2, increased to 6/ 4.5/ 3 with GJ.
With Spr Hvy wpn the Astartes moves at 12.96/ 10.8/ 8.64, increased to 15.96/ 13.3/ 10.64 with GJ.

A Human Jogger with Archotech Legs, a Bionic Heart and GJ moves at 10.4, the safest top speed possible in vanilla RW, which an Astartes could slightly surpass even in TA with an Assault Cannon if they were on GJ.


Rimworld's Armor system is set up so that each powered armor takes an average of about 25% less Assault Rifle, 20% less Charge Rifle and 17% less Charge Lance damage than the armor below it when compared to similar quality weapons.
I.E.
Legendary Cataphract takes less damage than Leg Marine does from Leg weapons.
Leg Mar takes less damage from Leg weapons than Mastercraft Cat does from Mast weapons.

Normally, Armor Rating is capped so Leg Cat is only 200 instead of 216. If Armor Rating is uncapped then Leg Cat would take about 76% less AR, 41% less CR and 33% less CL damage than Leg Mar causing it to become rather OP against vanilla weapons; however, it also allows for an additional armor tier to be added above it.

138 for Terminator, which is equal to Good Cata
120 for Power Armor, which is equal to Norm Cata
106 for Scout/Carapace, which is equal to Norm Mar
92 for Kevlar Armor, which is equal to Norm Recon
80 for Flak Armor, which is twice vanilla Flak Armor

Realistically speaking, Flak Armor should be a 6+ Save with Kevlar/Ballistic/Combat Armor as the 5+. That said, it's safe to assume Imperial tech would be superior to most others', which is why their Flak deflects a bit less than 1/3rd of Assault Rifle shots instead of a bit less than 1/8th like vanilla Flak.

Depending on weapon(Assault Rifle, Charge Rifle, Charge Lance) and quality(Normal to Legendary), RW full Flak takes about 25% less torso and 150% more limb damage than Recon Armor does, while taking about the same torso and 275% more limb damage than Marine Armor does. A Flak Vest with a Hyperweave Duster takes about the same torso and 180% more limb damage than Cataphract does.

If Imperial Flak and Kevlar are just a middle layer they can be worn with a Flak Vest/Jacket or Duster or Imperial equivalents such as a Great Coat. The Imp Flak with RW Flak or equiv would take similar full body but more head damage than Recon against lower AP weapons, while with a Hyperweave Duster or equiv would take similar full body but more head damage than Marine against lower AP weapons. Imp Kevlar would take more head damage than Marine but with RW Flak or equiv would take similar full body damage and with Duster or equiv would take slightly less full body damage against lower AP weapons.


If each point of Armor Penetration is 20% then AP6 is 25% higher than an Assault Rifle, Bolter AP5(40) sits between the Charge Rifle(35) and Charge Lance(45) and the Heavy Bolter AP4(60) has 34% more AP than the Charge Lance. AP- weapons like the Auto/Lasgun should be made AP6 so they aren't outclassed by vanilla weapons against Armor Ratings of 200+.

With the above AP system, against Legendary Terminator Armor:
AP- and 6 are deflected 100% of the time.
AP5 is deflected 94% and mitigated 6% of the time.
AP4 is deflected 79% and mitigated 21% of the time.
AP3 is deflected 64% and mitigated 36% of the time.
AP2 is deflected and mitigated 49% of the time.
AP1 is deflected and mitigated 34% of the time.

Against Legendary Power Armor:
AP- is deflected 100% of the time.
AP6 is deflected 93% and mitigated 7% of the time.
AP5 is deflected 78% and mitigated 22% of the time.
AP4 is deflected 63% and mitigated 37% of the time.
AP3 is deflected and mitigated 48% of the time.
AP2 is deflected and mitigated 33% of the time.
AP1 is deflected and mitigated 18% of the time.


For damage I've been testing the following scale:
S1: 2 dmg
S2: 10 dmg
S3: 17 dmg
S4: 30 dmg
S5: 40 dmg
S6: 51 dmg
S7: 63 dmg
S8: 76 dmg
S9: 90 dmg
S10: 110 dmg

S3 weapons(I.E. Auto/Lasgun) do about 13.3% more damage per hit than the Charge Rifle. S4 weapons(I.E. Bolter, Astartes Arm punch) are able to destroy a pawn's limbs, organs and head with a single unmitigated hit, while S5 weapons(I.E. Heavy Bolter, Astartes Leg kick) can destroy any body part with a single unmitigated hit. If Astartes have either the Tough Trait or 50% dmg resistance their limbs and head would technically have 60-hp, which a S7 Plasma weapon could still one-shot if unmitigated.

S10 at Legendary quality reaches 165 dmg allowing it to one-shot a pawn's torso even if mitigated by armor twice. A once mitigated S10 could still one-shot an Astartes' torso, while a double mitigation would leave them with 50% hp. Even if the S10 attack was mitigated 3x by an Iron Halo, Combat/Storm Shield and Armor as well as reduced by Astartes Toughness it would still do enough damage to destroy the Astartes' brain if it hit.


A 20 Shooting Skill pawn has an accuracy value of 99%, which totals out to:
Close Range(3-tiles): 97%
Short Range(12-tiles): 89%
Medi Range(25-tiles): 78%
Long Range(40-tiles): 67%

The only way to increase those values are with increased eyesight that maxes at 200% or with +Shooting Accuracy, which requires 40-pts to max accuracy on its own. The +25% efficiency of Bionic Eyes is essentially +3 acc and Arch's +50% is +6 acc. Astartes Occulobes at 200% efficiency and +6.5 acc each would give the Astartes +25 acc in total, requiring only 15 more to max out. Carapace/Scout, Power and Term Helmets can be +5, while PA is +5 and TA is +10.

With Archotech Eyes, TA and helmet a 20 Shooting pawn's accuracy would be:
Close Range: 99%
Short Range: 98%
Medi Range: 95%
Long Range: 92%

Astartes base acc is:
Close Range: 99%
Short Range: 98%
Medi Range: 96%
Long Range: 93%

Astartes with TA and helm is max possible accuracy:
Close Range: 100%
Short Range: 99%
Medi Range: 98%
Long Range: 96%

Because the Careful Shooter Trait increases accuracy by 5 then it may be best for each Occulobe to only boost acc by +4; however, because the Aiming Time Increase/Decrease of Careful Shooter/Trigger Happy does not equally impact all weapons and can make some become more OP than others it may be best to disable those Traits when using a 40k mod.
Last edited by Zaeryn Carine; 27 Aug, 2021 @ 12:38pm
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Spencer7w  [developer] 27 Aug, 2021 @ 3:41pm 
Hey, thanks for a lot of the suggestions, awesome to see someone so passionate about helping out with the mod! I've only been modding a month and this was my first mod so would firstly bare that in mind haha.

Whilst I don't normally play with CE as my mod list normally has a higher total than my bank account but for the most part, vanilla combat is a bit ♥♥♥♥ when it comes to later game stuff. Past a certain point you still have cata super soldiers going down due to bruises from a potato gun due to the way the vanilla system works.

I based my armour values off what is realistic lore wise in that with the armour pen calculation in vanilla (Dmg+Armour Pen+R100), nothing but a sniper rifle should be penetrating it. Weapon values were then balances off that with tons of armour pen.

I implemented the gene-seed as a torso implant for the sake of simplicity and not having to have 5-21 different items or a complicated systems like other Gene-Seed mods that actually grow new organs. Unfortunately a lot of the stats you suggested can't actually be added by just xml files which is all I can currently do code wise so just isn't possible at the moment.

If somebody wanted to add all the bionics to a space marine, power to them, it's RimWorld, if everything is OP nothing is OP. An armour unlocker and Yayo's Combat would probably be the best solution for realising the fact that a terminator should never be bruised by a sniper rifle never mind a revolver.

That all said, I currently have someone looking into patching it all for CE so the balancing will all be completely redone around that anyway.
Spencer7w  [developer] 27 Aug, 2021 @ 4:04pm 
By all means though man, if you wanted to tweak all the values and systems I currently have in place to your taste with all that in mind and release it as a patch with the mod as a dependency you would have my full endorsement! :steamthumbsup:
Zaeryn Carine 30 Aug, 2021 @ 6:34pm 
I don't know how to mod. I'm just good with numbers and okay at editing existing mods like Evolved Organs to test the implant balance. I've made all my changes by just editing files with WordPad so all of those stats can be easily added to existing implants, except maybe the Betcher's Gland ranged attack. I don't know how to get that to work but it's funny thinking about a line of tribal Astartes punching and kicking enemies, while another line behind them is spitting their foes to death.

Max HP on the Gene-Seed doesn't seem to work as pawns with the GS can still die from taking a total of 150 damage. Some stats will show up in-game on Health hediffs(I.E. Immune to Anesthesia) but won't actually apply.

Armor should not cover the hands or feet because bionic limbs do not have any for balance reasons, such as not having to constantly build replacement hands/feet/digits.

A natural arm has 120-hp due to a 30-hp shoulder and arm, 20-hp hand and five 8-hp fingers. There is also a 25-hp humerus and 20-hp radius that don't count towards total hp.

A natural leg has 95-hp due to a 30-hp leg, 25-hp foot and five 8-hp toes. There is also a femur and tibia both with 25-hp that don't count towards total hp.

Bionic limbs have 30-hp due to just a 30-hp shoulder or leg.

Bionic limbs can only be destroyed with 30 total damage.

Natural fingers and toes can be destroyed by most attacks in RW, resulting in permanent performance reductions.

Natural hands and radii can be destroyed by most weapons with two shots or less, which renders the entire limb useless.

Natural feet, femurs, tibiae, and humeri can be destroyed by a single Sniper Rifle or Pilum hit in order to render the entire limb useless.

Natural limbs can bleed, which can reduce pawn consciousness and therefore performance or even cause them to faint or die.

Natural limbs can feel pain, which can reduce pawn consciousness and mood resulting in mental breaks.

Natural limbs can scar, permanently reducing their hp and efficiency and potentially causing pain.

If a natural arm gets shot once by an Assault Rifle the pawn drops to 78% manipulation, 62% if the shot also hits the humerus or 59% if it hits the radius; meanwhile, Bionic Arms still have 100% manipulation after an AR shot and 74% after two.

Armor covers the arms despite Bionic Arms only being shoulders because arms are still 9.6x more likely to be shot than hands and 17x more likely to be shot than fingers.

Flak Armor provides good organ protection, weak limb protection and no hand/foot protection so early to mid-game losses are more likely to be fingers/toes and hands/feet, which are more cheaply and easily replaced with prosthetics than full limbs are. Once you can start making bionic organs and have begun replacing limbs with bionics you may want to sacrifice torso protection for limb protection by switching from full Flak to Recon or from FVest and Duster to Marine until you eventually get Cataphract.
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