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Crusader Kings III >  Workshop > Beyond Disbelief's Workshop > Houses Traditions > Discussions
Houses Traditions
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Beyond Disbelief  [developer] 16 May, 2023 @ 8:35pm
ASOIAF/CK3AGOT Houses and Traditions
Hello,

I'm looking into hard-coding the House Traditions for the various great houses of Westeros for those who would like to play with both mods. The way it will work is that when the AI takes the "Establish House Traditions" it will check first that it is the AI taking the decision, then as the AI circumvent any normal checks and automatically assign the pre-determined House Tradition. This way you as the player still retain freedom to choose.

Currently, the fixed traditions are as follows:

Targaryen - Pride (With an additional heavy weight towards "Glory" dynasty legacy track, since "Pride" in this mod usually prefers "Activities" to show their wealth but I felt "Glory" is more in theme with the Targaryens.) This reflects their ambition and pride, as well as temperament of the dragon. Pride tradition favors Arrogant, Ambitious, and Wrathful)

Baratheon - Power, the Baratheons are a cadet branch of the Targaryens, known for their short temper. (Power tradition favors Ambitious, Wrathful, and Impatient)

Stark - Honor (Honor tradition favors Honest, Just, and Stubborn)

Reed - Vigilance (Vigilance tradition favors Diligent, Patient, Paranoid)

Arryn - Honor

Baelish - Guile (Guile tradition favors Deceitful, Fickle, Arbitrary)

Lannister - Authority (Internally coded as "Respect", which I had Lannisters in mind. They want their name to be feared and respected. This tradition favors Callous, Arrogant, and Vengeful)

Tyrell - Influence (Influence tradition favors Gregarious, Calm, Deceitful)

Tully - Duty (Duty tradition favors Diligent, Humble, Impatient)

Frey - Perseverance (Internally coded as "Survival", doing anything it takes to benefit/propagate one's own house. This tradition favors Craven, Paranoid, Deceitful)

Martell - Valor (Valor tradition favors Brave, Stubborn, Impatient, which I think best fits the words, "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken")
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Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
Beyond Disbelief  [developer] 16 May, 2023 @ 8:38pm 
I'm struggling a little with the Boltons, they're so irredeemably and comically evil I don't have an existing house tradition for them. It doesn't make sense to have a noble tradition built around being sadistic (flayed man).

I'm thinking the best fit tradition would be Authority, as Roose can just as well be described as Callous, Arrogant, and Vengeful for betraying Robert. Under the existing framework it makes them match the tradition set for Lannisters which feels on point.
#1
NVA 18 May, 2023 @ 6:05pm 
Originally posted by Beyond Disbelief:
I'm struggling a little with the Boltons, they're so irredeemably and comically evil I don't have an existing house tradition for them. It doesn't make sense to have a noble tradition built around being sadistic (flayed man).

I'm thinking the best fit tradition would be Authority, as Roose can just as well be described as Callous, Arrogant, and Vengeful for betraying Robert. Under the existing framework it makes them match the tradition set for Lannisters which feels on point.
I think Dread can be a tradition. A house that tries to cultivate a fearsome reputation.
+ Sadistic, Arbitrary, Paranoid
- Compassionate, Forgiving

Btw, Roose is not Arrogant nor Vengeful though.
#2
Beyond Disbelief  [developer] 18 May, 2023 @ 6:15pm 
@NVA Tradition only enforces one of the 3 pillars unless it gets "contaminated" by cousins or a mother/guardian with an intersecting tradition. Roose need not match all 3. On that note though, my memory is a little fuzzy around the Young Wolf arc, could it not be argued that Roose rebelled because Robb wasn't taking his advice as a form of revenge? If he was strictly an opportunist he had no reason to flip on the winning side.

Authority/Respect is already the intimidation tradition i have in mind and comes with the associated passive bonus (including but not limited to baseline dread +20 and additional vassal contribution when they're intimidated), but I built it around Callous rather than Sadistic.
Last edited by Beyond Disbelief; 18 May, 2023 @ 6:18pm
#3
rain 31 May, 2023 @ 10:15pm 
I'm with you and feel that just giving the Boltons Authority works- but making Roose maybe prioritize the Callous part over the Arrogance and Vengeance? Ramsay ofc favors the Arrogance more, so he could fit the aspect of the mod that's about how different characters can embody different parts of the house (and sort of fits with the conflict between him and his father. But I'm just spitballing and also haven't read the books in ages.
#4
Zarathustra 11 Aug, 2024 @ 10:22am 
Old thread, I know, but if you are going to add a few more at some point, here are my suggestions...


Celtigar: Fortune. There have been two Celtigars who made hand of the king. Both drove the smallfolk to starvation through excessive taxation. They are also known for their treasure trove.

Velyrions: I'd go with distinction, but pride could also work. They are all about their heritage.

Darklyn: Valor. They provided more knights to the kingsguard than any other house.

Trant: Vengence, just based on their coat of arms and words. I don't even remember them from the books to be honest, but their CoA is... distinctive.

Hightower: Knowledge. Obviously.

Tarly, Manwoody, Wyl, Fowler and Blackmont have their entire identity based on guarding the passes. Valor.

Yronwood: Pride. They are the Bloodroyals after all.

Reyne (for the earlier bookmark) and Sterling ought to be pride, and Banefort vengence.

Corbray should be honour, and Grafton pride.

Finally for the north, Cassel should obviously be duty, and Umber I'd argue should be valour.
#5
Fallen Savior 23 Aug, 2024 @ 1:52pm 
Is this still a work in progress or it is compatible with AGOT with the stuff you have already completed? Or will you make a seperate mod for AGOT?
#6
cyanblu 14 Sep, 2024 @ 6:54pm 
Adding my voice to "I would love to see this implemented" :) great idea
#7
Beyond Disbelief  [developer] 25 Sep, 2024 @ 10:48am 
These are the additions I've made (for the upcoming 1.13 update)

Celtigar = Fortune
Velaryon = Distinction ("The old, the true, the brave")
Darklyn = Valor
Trant = Vengeance ("So End Our Foes")

Umber = Valor
Mormont = Honor (Although Maege and Lyanna are very fierce, they seem to be the exception. Jeor and the house's traditional reputation seems to be more about honor. Jorah is obviously a blacksheep)
Cassel = Duty

Reyne = Pride
Hightower = Knowledge
Tarly = Valor ("First in Battle")
Oakheart = Honor
Yronwood = Pride

I didn't add the other houses suggested because I don't feel the evidence is quite as strong and I rather the game organically choose one instead of script out every single house.
#8
Zarathustra 25 Sep, 2024 @ 2:24pm 
I totally get what you mean by not entierly railroading all houses, but to expand on my reasons for a few of them...

Corbray was, IIRC, the very first Andal house that was established in Westeros. They are the arch-typical Vale/Andal house, even more so than the Arryns, although as the centuries went on the Arryns obviously overtook them in power and glory. I still think that deserves a mark of distinction.

Grafton is tough... I don't actually remember my specific reason for wanting to make them Pride. Their early history would point towards Guile, but their modern actions, most notably of course standing with the King rather than their lord during the war of the usurper, could be interpreted either as honouring their duty to their King above all else, OR as a betrayal of their liege lord, OR pure opportunistic powergrab, if they assumed the rebels didn't stand a chance. So two of three interpretations there would actually suit with Guile. Honestly they probably don't have enough of an identity to he scripted.

Sterling though... It's another case of "I don't even remember them from the books, but their CoA and words speak volumes". They have a peacock on their CoA and their words are "I have no equal" or something very similar. Pride just suits them so well.
#9
Beyond Disbelief  [developer] 25 Sep, 2024 @ 5:30pm 
Corbray if I add Corbray it seems Valor would be more suitable, as their house is known for producing peerless swordsman. Can you clarify the honor attribution?

I'm not actually able to find information about Sterling. Do you mean Serrett? Their house words are "I have no Rival" and do in fact have the Peacock sigil.
#10
Beyond Disbelief  [developer] 25 Sep, 2024 @ 5:43pm 
I've added the following on my end but will wait until the next time I have meaningful updates before uploading:

Corbray = Valor
Dayne = Valor
Westerling = Honor ("Honor, not Honors")
Serrett = Pride ("I Have no Rival")
#11
Zarathustra 25 Sep, 2024 @ 11:04pm 
Yeah, I meant Serrett. Don't know why I kept calling them Sterling...

My main reason for choosing Honour for Corbray is that they are a symbol of the most ancient Andal houses, so the strong hooks of loyalty from their bannermen is suitable. They have lived in, and ruled from, Heart's Home longer than any other "pure" Andal house, having established the first Andal kingdom during the period of Andal migration and conquest in Westeros. Obviously not as long as the houses who descend from the first men, but still. I think it is suitable more from a symbolic point of view than based on any particular characters from the books. Devotion could also work by the same reasoning of course, but then they wouldn't get the hooks of loyalty. I wouldn't disagree that Valour is suitable too, but again, my main reason to choose Honour is that I feel they would have those strong hooks of loyalty from their vassals based on their history.

I'm not unhappy with them being assigned Valour though, so I wont argue the point further, as I don't fundamentally disagree with that either.
#12
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