Conquest of Elysium 5

Conquest of Elysium 5

The Conquest of Elysium 5 Total Overhaul
Commisar Jon Fuklaw  [developer] 4 Oct, 2021 @ 1:58pm
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Showing 1-15 of 62 comments
Ddraig Lleuad 4 Oct, 2021 @ 6:35pm 
Would you ever consider making or collabbing with other authors to make 'compatibility mods' for fanmade factions? It's something that showed up a lot in games like Total Warhammer/XCOM where there's big overhaul mods floating around; people would release extra mods that existed to modify a mod that was designed with vanilla in mind so that there was also a version that fit with [insert popular overhaul here].

So, your mods have generally been made up of about four major points;
1) General QoL changes (Witch getting more swamp move, Pale Ones getting easier tunnelling, etc)
2) Standard recruitment overhauls (Voice of El crusader troops, Demonologist recruiting imps, etc)
3) Easier access to other planes where appropriate (Voice of El, Dryad Queen, Cloud Lord, etc)
4) Thematic terraforming/infrastructure-building rituals.

There are other changes of course (Baron actually getting A Lategame springs to mind), but that's the stuff that keeps showing up, yeah? A lot of it isn't necessary to apply to fanmade factions (they can handle their own QoL, and presumably if they were supposed to have unique standard recruits/planar access, the author would have given it to them), but your terraforming/infrastructure rituals are all priced/balanced according to roughly the same assumptions, and have a pronounced effect on the way games go. A fanmade faction that can't terraform and a vanilla faction that can are operating on very different styles of gameplay, y'know?

I admit, I'm thinking of Maverick00053's Dragon Fanatic mod in particular here because, well, see my username and avatar, you can imagine I have a thing for dragons :P
Last edited by Ddraig Lleuad; 4 Oct, 2021 @ 6:38pm
Misr 4 Oct, 2021 @ 7:11pm 
Are you planning on changing tile yields at all or map editing other then the terraforming spells not exactly a request just more a question of if it was something you were thinking of.
Commisar Jon Fuklaw  [developer] 4 Oct, 2021 @ 7:47pm 
Originally posted by Misr:
snip

A few units (Priestess, Ancestor God, and one other IIRC) cause tile changes on occasion, provided the terraform<x> definitions/functions actually work. A small number of tiles have been changed (villages, for example, can produce chaff for Cultist), but I've no real plans to make significant changes to most tiles, as I try to avoid the "hit it with a hammer until it fits" approach.



Originally posted by Ddraig Lleuad:
snip
Hilariously, I am one of the more prolific Total WAAAGHammer 2 (plus Shogun 2 and Attila, besides) modders. I've always refused to do sub-mods there because of how much of an absolute pain in the ♥♥♥♥ it is to debug. Here, it's not needed, since my request to have secondary load order sorting by filename was taken to heart and implemented in 5.08. There also aren't really many major projects for CoE5 at present: my own and one other guy did a rebalance of all existing content without adding anything. Unfortunately, I don't think that overhaul got much acclaim.

Either way, your assessment regarding my own content is largely accurate. Thing is: as you say with QoL changes, people wanting compatibility (or relative parity, as is the case here) with this or any other major overhaul can manage that themselves. Or rather, that's how I see it. Terraforming/empire-building rituals are so easy you can literally copy/paste them, change their name and description, and change 4-6 values and be done with them.

That said, if someone wants to work with me or have me do rituals, mechanics, or units for them, all they need do is ask me (bearing in mind that I can't do sprites and actually use an artist for those, even though it's gotten harder and harder to get work out of him in the past couple weeks).

All that aside, I doubt anyone will ask because people making a class from scratch will doubtless have their own vision for said class and will probably not be too keen on the extra maintenance that comes with multiple versions.

TL;DR: I'm not saying no and will gladly pitch in for those who ask, but the nature of these things leads me to believe that such things would be unlikely. If you want technical assistance to try your hand at such a thing (whether for personal use or distribution (though that means asking the class' author)), I can provide it.
Ddraig Lleuad 4 Oct, 2021 @ 8:47pm 
Oh ♥♥♥♥, yeah! I remember now, you did the Legendary Lords, Legendary Mastery mod for TW:WH2, hilarity, coolness, tastelessness and all!
Commisar Jon Fuklaw  [developer] 4 Oct, 2021 @ 9:14pm 
Yeah, that's me. Much as I like WHFB, I've had enough of the non-historical TW titles, so I don't do anything post-Attila nowadays. Which is a shame, since I never did go through with rewriting Warhammer's atrocious AI.
Kami-Kaze 5 Oct, 2021 @ 6:02am 
At the suggestion of a friend, can I ask if you'd consider a submod that doesn't include the infrastructure stuff? They enjoy a lot of your changes, like buying thematic troops instead of generic ones (warlocks buying elementals, demonologists buying imps), but find the infrastructure building tedious. Fine in an SP setting where you can just not do it since i'm assuming AI is clueless on that front, but in an MP setting requires everyone else involved to pinky swear if you wanted to keep it fair.
A minor thing, but can you make Ogre Chiefs Lucky? It fits their unit description/lore.
Commisar Jon Fuklaw  [developer] 5 Oct, 2021 @ 10:41am 
Kami:
As I said above: I don't do submods. If you want to do it, rituals are covered by everything between line 1260 and line 1559.... and between line 6565 and line 11461.

Perhaps you'd rather expand upon why the rituals are not fair, instead?

Fault:
Maybe. I try to avoid making changes to units mostly used by indies.
Last edited by Commisar Jon Fuklaw; 5 Oct, 2021 @ 10:42am
Ddraig Lleuad 5 Oct, 2021 @ 11:45am 
Originally posted by Commisar Jon Fuklaw:
Kami:
As I said above: I don't do submods. If you want to do it, rituals are covered by everything between line 1260 and line 1559.... and between line 6565 and line 11461.

Perhaps you'd rather expand upon why the rituals are not fair, instead?
They're talking about gentleman's agreements to avoid the infrastructure rituals in MP games, not faction balance. In SP you can just not use the rituals yourself and (they believe) assume the AI isn't coded to use them, but in MP you have to trust nobody will use them.

Personally I'm rather fond of the infrastructure stuff, it's nice not having to rely on random mapgen for specific resources when a lot of factions depend on them, but each to their own I guess.
Commisar Jon Fuklaw  [developer] 5 Oct, 2021 @ 11:54am 
Except the AI has valid pointers for all rituals (with the exception of several ainotclose<x> rituals because there's no version for 5 or 7 tile radii). It's part of the reason the mod is (as of now) 1500 lines longer than the sum of its parts.
Last edited by Commisar Jon Fuklaw; 5 Oct, 2021 @ 11:54am
Ddraig Lleuad 5 Oct, 2021 @ 11:55am 
I imagine that will come as a surprise to them, then.
Commisar Jon Fuklaw  [developer] 5 Oct, 2021 @ 12:02pm 
Possibly. The AI will never be as good as a person trying to achieve a specific task, though, so I imagine it won't be a problem outside of difficulties with a lot of resource boni.
Justice 5 Oct, 2021 @ 7:46pm 
This is a bit of a meme suggestion, but have you considered types of "specialty" Kobolds, only available if you set up a fortress/lair in another realm? Like demonic kobolds or something.
Commisar Jon Fuklaw  [developer] 5 Oct, 2021 @ 9:25pm 
I have not. I'll think about it, but first I need to streamline the dwarfs' logistics and make some additional changes to cloud lord and pale one.
cowboyana 6 Oct, 2021 @ 12:38am 
Originally posted by Commisar Jon Fuklaw:
Kami:
As I said above: I don't do submods. If you want to do it, rituals are covered by everything between line 1260 and line 1559.... and between line 6565 and line 11461.

Perhaps you'd rather expand upon why the rituals are not fair, instead?
Can't speak for them but personally I find that the infrastructure stuff pretty dramatically changes the spirit of the game to something closer to a 4x experience; I find them pretty irresistible to use when I have them because they certainly do salvage otherwise-bad starts but I agree that ultimately they add a "gardening" element that feels repetitive. Thanks for giving the line numbers, I'm happy to just prune them, and I do think it's worth considering releasing an abridged version without them for lazy people!
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