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XCOM 2 >  Workshop > wNb's Workshop > RPGO & LWOTC - Compatibility and Balance Patch > Discussions
RPGO & LWOTC - Compatibility and Balance Patch
Description Discussions11 Comments175 Change Notes
Mrvecz 10 Mar, 2022 @ 2:52pm
Further rebalancing discussion (Part 2) - Stat upgrades
This wont require anything revolutionary as this system has already in build diminshing returns as you pump more and more. It just needs some fine tuning of the values or for the diminishing returns to kick in earlier and some values be more expensive or cheaper

1) First things, how much it costs

Aim
- This is the omni stat useful for everything, together with mobility the most important stat. It should take longer to get to the celling where your soldiers have Master Sergeant Sniper aim and they are barely halfway through.
It should cost 4 AP to upgrade (From 3 AP)

Mobility
- Costing 15 AP for 1 point is sounds alright already, given items will slow you down.

Will
- Costing 2 AP for 1 AP seems too cheap given what it can do, 3 AP for 1 Point should slow down the will gain slightly. LWOTC expects your troops to be vulnerable to will attacks from sectoids and there are perks like Iron Will that give you will.
Your troops are expected to get tired too, will being slightly more expensive to increase will slow that down.

Defense
- Given Defense has contradicting results and makes Advent just shoot at everyone else, paying 5 AP for 1 point seems alright to me as it is.


Hacking and Psi offense
Both of these need to cost 3 AP (From 2), so its much slower to gain ultra high chances of hacking, will also increase the need to actually use items.

Dodge
- Feels alright at 2 AP a pop.


2) STAT DIMINISHING RETURNS LIMIT
Now the increasing cost needs to also kick in earlier so there is a reason to use items and perks to boost it.

(Here is the copy and paste of my changes, just copy and replace whats there and we are good to go)

[StatUpgradeUI.UIPanel_StatUI_StatLine]
; stat cost formular is
; statcost = e((AbilityPointCost/NonLinearProgressionCostLamda)^6)*AbilityPointCost
; if NonLinearProgressionCostLamda is defined, else AbilityPointCost is used
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_HP, AbilityPointCost=10, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=15)
;+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_ArmorMitigation, AbilityPointCost=10, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=2)
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_Offense, AbilityPointCost=3, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=90)
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_Defense, AbilityPointCost=5, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=20)
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_Mobility, AbilityPointCost=15, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=20)
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_Will, AbilityPointCost=3, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=60)
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_Hacking, AbilityPointCost=2, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=70)
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_Dodge, AbilityPointCost=2, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=45)
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_PsiOffense, AbilityPointCost=2, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=70)


Changes :
Aim - changed from 95 to 90 (roughly around the aim of some late game enemies)
Defense - Changed from 35 to 20 (This is slightly more than Advent troops can get given they hang around 10 defense but close enough to what Advent can field but things like Gatekeepers will still have more defense than XCOM troops.)
Mobility - unchanged
Will - Changed from 105 to 60 (Common, lets give Sectoids atleast a chance to mind control your soldier !)
Hacking - Changed from 120 to 70, you should get better gremlins if you want to hack high value targets or grab perks from code breaker tree. Or use redscreen rounds or bluescreen bombs to lower hack defence
Dodge - From 55 to 45 (Which is roughly above the value some enemies like Sidewinders have)
PsiOffense - From 105 to 70 so you have another reason to get better psiamp than damage.
HP - Increased from 10 to 15 to make pumping points to health more inciting.

(all numbers are subject to change if discussion goes that way)
Last edited by Mrvecz; 11 Mar, 2022 @ 3:26am
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Showing 1-3 of 3 comments
wNb  [developer] 11 Mar, 2022 @ 12:44am 
Very well thought out points that I am sure will still leave some room for discussion. Thanks for that! For now though, I suggest we focus on AP cost balancing, before we touch on balancing stat upgrades.
#1
Mrvecz 11 Mar, 2022 @ 3:25am 
I made a small test on how much AP with my changes cost before you start seeing increasing costs of all atributes.

My soldier has 5 health, 65 aim, 0 dodge, 0 hack, 15 mobility and psi 20 lets use that as example.

Health
- You can buy up to 3 HP for 30 AP before it becomes more expensive
- This is on par with Alien Conditioning I, II and III.
- To reach 10 HP you need 51 AP

Health doesnt mean much in long war given any wounds mean infirmary time and due to how infiltration works this does hurt alot and lots of health only depends if you are getting hit and failing the "alpha strike" nature of Long War so i think we should make health as a stat cheap to upgrade in those cases where wounds are unavoidable (Like against Chosen).

Mobility
- With 15 being my soldiers baseline, every point onward will cost more and more
- 16 mobility is 18 AP
- 17 mobility is 24 AP
- 18 mobility is 30 AP

And it spirals out of control after that, mobility is extremely powerful stat in Long War where you have to keep moving constatly so it being expensive fulfils this role.


Aim
- You can buy 9 aim (36 AP) before the price goes up
- From 10 aim to 13 Aim it costs 5 AP to upgrade
- To reach 90 Aim (Which is roughly around Master Sergeants have on aim based classes) you need to spend 108 AP

Aim should be slow to level up and get to high levels because it is the most important stat for 90% of all classes.

Will
- You can buy up to 9 will (27 AP) before price goes up
- 10-17 will costs 5 AP a pop
- To reach 60 will, you need 107 AP

Dodge
- You can buy up to 30 points of dodge before it becomes more expensive (60 AP)
- To reach dodge of 45, my soldier needs 95 AP

Dodge doesnt mean much till you have atleast 20% and even then it just lowers damage taken but you are still getting shot....

Defense
- You can buy up to 13 defense points for 65 AP before it becomes more expensive
- To reach 20 defense, you need to pony up 121 AP

Defense is hit or miss and completely depends on your class and is only useful for classes that cannot get hit like overwatch or supression classes but counterproductive to all other classses as defense just shifts advents aim at the one soldier who doesnt have defense.

Hack
- You can buy up to 47 points (141 AP !) before price goes up
- To get to 70 hack you need to pay up 230 AP

Ok this is abit draconic, lets change hacking price to 2 AP instead of 3.

Psi
- My soldier can buy 32 psi for 96 AP
- To get to 70 psi i need to get 50 psi points which costs 185 AP

Ok this one too much too, Psi strenght should be lowered back to 2 AP a point.

Although i like the way things are shaping around, if you want really high end stats you need to really pump all your points in to one stat or you spend points to various statistics and compensate with items like tracing rounds and scopes to increase your aim.
#2
Mrvecz 12 Mar, 2022 @ 4:51am 
Furthermore we could also include new upgrades not present in RPGO. After some snooping around it seems the upgrade system works on the basis of estat upgrading.

1) Utility slots
Now this one is interesting because this might sound powerful on paper but the weight of items and worse infiltration will balance this out, so having 6 item grenadier might make him a powerhouse but he will be a total snail and also loud as ♥♥♥♥
2) Strenght
I have no idea if this works but it should boost melee proc chance, making it more reliable. This sounds cool if it does work
This should boost things like arc blade stun chance or fusion weapon ignition chance.
I actually like this so melee classes have something else from aim or mobility to build up
3) Flanking Crit chance
Also sounds cool
4) Sight radius
As cool as this is, its also completely overpowered because it lets you strike at enemies as if you were in concealment and lets you open with abilities against unsuspecting pods that dont work in concealment for a good reason. Things like opening up with area supression and you have pretty much infinite Saturation Fire on demand.
5) Flanking aim boost
Will not include as LW2 removed it in the first place, having no cover is already punshing enough.


[StatUpgradeUI.UIPanel_StatUI_StatLine]
; stat cost formular is
; statcost = e((AbilityPointCost/NonLinearProgressionCostLamda)^6)*AbilityPointCost
; if NonLinearProgressionCostLamda is defined, else AbilityPointCost is used
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_HP, AbilityPointCost=10, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=15)
;+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_ArmorMitigation, AbilityPointCost=10, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=2)
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_Offense, AbilityPointCost=3, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=90)
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_Defense, AbilityPointCost=5, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=20)
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_Mobility, AbilityPointCost=15, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=20)
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_Will, AbilityPointCost=3, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=60)
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_Hacking, AbilityPointCost=2, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=70)
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_Dodge, AbilityPointCost=2, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=45)
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_PsiOffense, AbilityPointCost=3, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=70)
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_UtilityItems, AbilityPointCost=35, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=6)
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_FlankingCritChance, AbilityPointCost=3, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=70)
+StatCosts=(Stat=eStat_Strength, AbilityPointCost=3, NonLinearProgressionCostLamda=60)


BUT I HAVE run in to a problem, game does not want to add these to the stat upgrade screen ! So i guess this is a wall for me since i dont see anything in the inis that would turn it on so there has to be something else controlling this, your ideas ?

I tried starting a new campaign and respeccing my soldier but nothing works to show up these new stats.

They wont have icons either by default, although for my testing purpose i tried to use placeholder icons of already existing stuff. (We could make them in future, shamble something barely acceptable in MS paint)

+StatIcons=(Stat=eStat_HP, Icon="img:///StatUpgradeUI_Library.icon_health")
+StatIcons=(Stat=eStat_ArmorMitigation, Icon="img:///StatUpgradeUI_Library.icon_armor")
+StatIcons=(Stat=eStat_Offense, Icon="img:///StatUpgradeUI_Library.icon_aim")
+StatIcons=(Stat=eStat_Defense, Icon="img:///StatUpgradeUI_Library.icon_defense")
+StatIcons=(Stat=eStat_Mobility, Icon="img:///StatUpgradeUI_Library.icon_mobility")
+StatIcons=(Stat=eStat_Will, Icon="img:///StatUpgradeUI_Library.icon_will")
+StatIcons=(Stat=eStat_Hacking, Icon="img:///StatUpgradeUI_Library.icon_hack")
+StatIcons=(Stat=eStat_Dodge, Icon="img:///StatUpgradeUI_Library.icon_dodge")
+StatIcons=(Stat=eStat_PsiOffense, Icon="img:///StatUpgradeUI_Library.icon_psi")
+StatIcons=(Stat=eStat_Utilityitems, Icon="img:///StatUpgradeUI_Library.icon_armor")
+StatIcons=(Stat=eStat_FlankingCritChance, Icon="img:///StatUpgradeUI_Library.icon_aim")
+StatIcons=(Stat=eStat_Strength, Icon="img:///StatUpgradeUI_Library.icon_aim")
#3
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