Thanks for the feedback. I've already created a custom mission for Rohan though which will be released in the next patch. You are very welcome to give them a try again at that point.

With regard to the Ring quest. It is really meant to be started only later in the game, so the requirement of how it can be started shouldn't be too easy.

after playing so more a few more comments: (as Rohan again). It is simply a must to break with Gondor and use the OP 'help the free peoples' special skill to destroy Saruman right off the bat. I think this is an exploit use of the skill as you can basically kill Saruman way too early in the game. (it's also a great way to clean out misty mountains, cult of melkor too)

The escort ring quest is basically useless (IMO). especially the last step that requires Gondor to basically have NONE of its border under control of the enemy. Basically, by the time you can make this happen the game will be past the date to kick off the quest OR the free peoples will have already effectively won against the orcs... Not the book 'desperate gambit' to destroy Sauron before he could overrun the west. (in books by the time to gondor, most of this area had fallen to the orcs)

I would change this (and the path thru misty mountains step earlier) to allow the player to kick them off, but if orcs have control of regions being passed through then Sauron might have a chance to capture the fellowship and obtain the one ring (what ever that does to help him - side note, i don't get why Sauron is leading armies UNTIL he has the one ring and is back 'out of spirit form'). Anyway. thanks for the work, i had more fun with this than the base game.

Thanks for the detailed feedback Brindle, we really appreciate it! As Gratak mentioned, Rohan's gameplay will change significantly with the release of the new Rohan mission tree, hopefully that fixes some of the oddities.

" It is simply a must to break with Gondor and use the OP 'help the free peoples' special skill to destroy Saruman right off the bat."

Yeah, this will be fixed with the new mission. Though that skill is not in general OP, it just allows you to attack orcs without having to fabricate a claim. You could kill Saruman early just as easily by waiting for your claim. And I see zero advantage of this ability except for saving the cost for the claim when clearing the Misty Mountains. Time is irrelevant there and you never get aggressive expansion from conquering orcs themselves anyway as the orcs raise up in occupied provinces. The skill is meant for freeing people from the orcs, as I found it extremely unfitting, when people started to hate me, because I freed their brethren from the orcs.

" It is simply a must to break with Gondor"
Why would you break with them if you can have an alliance with them? I mean of course you can't stay a vassal. This game allows zero gameplay as a vassal. But the alliance path works well. You'll actually get a relation boost as well in the next patch to make sure that alliance holds.

"(in books by the time to gondor, most of this area had fallen to the orcs)"
This is not correct. All of the areas marked are reconquered by the free people after Saurons failed attack on Minas Tirith.

"Basically, by the time you can make this happen the game will be past the date to kick off the quest OR the free peoples will have already effectively won against the orcs"
If by "past the time to kick of the quest" you mean the dates from the books (or even worse the movies) then yes, I'm aware of that. Unfortunately, the game runs slower than the events in the source material, yeah. "Ending" the game after 30 years is simply very short in terms of Imperator.

Other than that, I disagree. In my experience it is very well possible using the superior units of elves, dwarves, dunedain and even rohirim to clear the areas needed for the quest without having already fully defeated the Orcs. Especially getting into Mordor is usually pretty hard as both the Black gate and Minas Morgul have insane defensive bonuses.

" i don't get why Sauron is leading armies UNTIL he has the one ring and is back 'out of spirit form' "
He keeps leading the levies of the capital when he gets the ring, he just gets his stats boosted und thus becomes a better general and a better ruler (not that the AI can managed this). We want Sauron to be the ruler of Mordor and Imperator dictates that this means he leads the levies of the capital.

"Also, as a new player, if you start this you will be completely unaware you are missing out on the fellowship quest."
No, the fellowship quest is meant to be played after you finish the city quest, which can be finished in a reasonable time frame. This is intended to prevent people starting the fellowship to early, as that one will basically "end the game". Not much challenge remaining if Sauron is defeated.

"it seems that the best approach to mod is to clear out saruman before starting the ring quest"
For Rohan, totally. There is no way we could avoid this. We want him to be aggressive and if you start near him, you'd really have to be a patient role player to let him live. But the ring quest is meant for all Eru countries and there it is easy to let Saruman rage a bit and fight him during the quest.

oh, a side note (maybe a bug, maybe just weird part of engine) but Mordor captured a chunk of Gondor in an early attack with peace treaty. When I attacked Mordor later and reconquered that land, it did the orc tribal thing and abandoned a large junk of Gondor with a 'tribal migration' . basically a full 9 zone or so area (the one adjacent to Rohan) became completely unoccupied as several thousand orcs just up and moved after i took the zone. This removed a large chunk of Gondor. This was only a few years after conquest - for some reason the engine thinks this is orc land (it should have been gondor peoples / culture ). just an FYI.

Thanks for the feedback to my comments - just to clarify, i really enjoy the hard work you guys did - when i said 'break with gondor', i meant using the special mission to stop being a vassal. Also, a lot of my comments are from someone who is playing somewhat 'historical' - i didn't want to play Imperator Rome on a middle earth map (meaning, abuse make claim, get country as big as fast as possible, steamroll smaller states etc.). So some of my commentary is more from a 'role player' point of view.

By the way - why didn't the elves show up at helm's deep to help me against Saruman?? I kid! lol....

Gondor by the way is hopeless as AI... maybe if something could be done to buff him or at least stop him from going into constant rebellions and/or war with his vassals might help.

"Gondor by the way is hopeless as AI... maybe if something could be done to buff him or at least stop him from going into constant rebellions and/or war with his vassals might help."

Try playing on hard difficulty. It makes all AI much more stable. I removed the other hard bonuses and replaced them with stuff that reduces likelyhood of rebellions and civil wars. The fights against vassals just happens once Sauron or the corsairs make them be independent by a peace treaty.

"when i said 'break with gondor', i meant using the special mission to stop being a vassal"
To be honest, I find that Rohan being a vassal is just a "AI would mess up an alliance" feature. Them being allied is the more realistic way.

"basically a full 9 zone or so area (the one adjacent to Rohan) became completely unoccupied as several thousand orcs just up and moved after i took the zone."
This is the reason the "save the free people" cb is not imbalanced. Orcs always rise up instead of letting themselves be conquered in a peace treaty. Normally they do this territory by territory, though if there are still some non orcs in the capital of a province, the whole province will rise up. If there are still humans in some territories, they won't rise up though. It's just orcs, even in central Mordor if there happens to be non-orcs there.