These are probably one of the few good stats I've read, but you might need to add a tiny amount of base damage reduction just to balance it out

Agreed

I feel like the whole quickdraw metagame is the best part about this item, but that it is somewhat misplaced on a spy weapon. I rarely bump into (literally and figuratively) other spies as a spy, and when I do we are either both cloaked or disguised, which negates the fun of this revolver. Perhaps the quickdraw metagame would work better on an Engie pistol? (Texan Engineer and all that)

Originally posted by occipitantx:

I feel like the whole quickdraw metagame is the best part about this item, but that it is somewhat misplaced on a spy weapon. I rarely bump into (literally and figuratively) other spies as a spy, and when I do we are either both cloaked or disguised, which negates the fun of this revolver. Perhaps the quickdraw metagame would work better on an Engie pistol? (Texan Engineer and all that)

There is an Honor Codex for spies. You encounter one when both of you are cloaked? Go in its opposite direction. You need to do a duel? Do it away from the battlefield.

I already posted this one in the other discussion and thought it was really good, but nobody really paid any attention to it. So I'll just copy/paste it into here.

Let's look at the weapon's design. First, the muzzle. The muzzle's width is fairly short. All other revolvers that have damage penalties have shorter muzzles. Look in the gun comparison picture.

Second, clip size. People say it should have eight shots since it's a old western style gun. If you look at the first-person view image, you can see that about one fifth of the weapon's roundy part is between each bullet, meaning it should have one less shot than a normal revolver. Since it has less shots to load, it should also have a slight reload speed buff.

Third, the lever action. If you look by the trigger, you will see it has a lever, similar to old shotgun's pump. Have you ever seen the 50's show, "The Rifleman", starring Chuck Conners? Unlikely so, great show, on at AMC saturday mornings. Anyways, here is the gist. Chuck's trusty rifle is also lever-action. He pulls the trigger for his first shot, then pulls the lever to prep the next shot, and when his hand comes down to finish the prep, his finger pulls the trigger, due to forward motion already moving in that direction. This allows him to fire off shots at rapid succession, about twice that of a spy revolver. This means the weapon should have a firing speed increase.

But look at the way spy holds the weapon. With one hand. This means all this shooting and pumping in rapid succession will throw of his shot, so it should be less accurate.

So, to recap, damage penalty, clip size decrease, reload speed buff, firing speed buff, accuracy decrease.

god stats, and I have seen the rifleman. good show.

Originally posted by Max It's Bane!:

I already posted this one in the other discussion and thought it was really good, but nobody really paid any attention to it. So I'll just copy/paste it into here.

Let's look at the weapon's design. First, the muzzle. The muzzle's width is fairly short. All other revolvers that have damage penalties have shorter muzzles. Look in the gun comparison picture.

Second, clip size. People say it should have eight shots since it's a old western style gun. If you look at the first-person view image, you can see that about one fifth of the weapon's roundy part is between each bullet, meaning it should have one less shot than a normal revolver. Since it has less shots to load, it should also have a slight reload speed buff.

Third, the lever action. If you look by the trigger, you will see it has a lever, similar to old shotgun's pump. Have you ever seen the 50's show, "The Rifleman", starring Chuck Conners? Unlikely so, but here is the gist. Chuck's trusty rifle is also lever-action. He pulls the trigger for his first shot, then pulls the lever to prep the next shot, and when his hand comes down to finish the prep, his finger pulls the trigger, due to forward motion already moving in that direction. This allows him to fire off shots at rapid succession, about twice that of a spy revolver. This means the weapon should have a firing speed increase.

But look at the way spy holds the weapon. With one hand. This means all this shooting and pumping in rapid succession will throw of his shot, so it should be less accurate.

So, to recap, damage penalty, clip size decrease, reload speed buff, firing speed buff, accuracy decrease.

Originally posted by Puggins:

These are probably one of the few good stats I've read, but you might need to add a tiny amount of base damage reduction just to balance it out

i think this guys got it just saying

I like your stats and the quickdraw, but take out the advantage with the dead ringer. I think it makes it a little too OP and would over centralize the use of the dead ringer. An already good combo would be this and the YER knife.

Ok, just gonna make some interjections on my reasoning:

To Puggins: I don't wanna add a damage reduction (though it is up to valve if this gets added) because I feel it already had very little damage. A minicrit revolver round is at most 81 damage at point blank, and 54 at it's longest. Am I right, or is that stupid? If I am wrong, how much damage would be good?

To Occipitantx:
The reason for having so many "only if's" is because this is a ranged weapon, if this were to insta-kill cloaked and disguised spies it would become god-tier spy-checking, and the spy already has enough items stacked against him as counters. (Mad milk, jarate, tribalman's shiv, huo-long heater, razorback, southern hospitality, and several others I guarentee I've forgotten)
Furthermore, I know what your getting at trying to make the engineer have the western stuff, but this seems really cool on the spy, and I just can't see this going well on an engie. It could obliterate sentry nests if you had a friend who could take the sentries out with you OP-ly and I'm soooo missing something else it would imbalance. A revolver would be very odd on the class that hates spy the most, in my opinion, and sometimes, you just have to break the meta. Take demoknight, for example. It did something crazy, and now it's a very popular class loadout.

To Spade:
I'm not sure what you mean by the advantage of this with the deadringer. There is no advantage on there with the deadringer, I'm just trying to make it so that deadringer doesn't negate the fun of a quickdraw battle, but still trying to make it so the deadringer can still be used. If you made it so it insta-killed spies with the deadringer, too, then there would be no point in using the deadringer. The crit is to counteract the 90% damage reduction. Also, your comment about the knife makes me realize how much of a loadout helper this is. It can also help to take out groups of enemies you may be behind as a spy. There's that moment sometimes where you see a spy come out of nowhere and backstab every single enemy that's pushing towards your team's pitiful little sentry nest. But usually you just see that spy explode after the first backstab, because he got noticed. With this, you could keep backstabbing without worry, then quickly swtch to your revolver and unload on the crowd with the mini-crits. Though once you've fired your six shots, your dead meat 'cause of that reload time. Also, maybe the reloading with a quickloader should be taken out. (the thing that allows the spy to put all 6 bullets in at once) and instead he loads them in one by one.

To [Max] It's bane!:
I like the reasoning on your stats, and I also like the stats themselves kinda. But seriosuly, how often do you see weapons in TF2 that make sense in that way? XD

To recap, you all have very good tips, and thanks for the feedback. Keep it coming, though!
I'll add them to the top if I feel they are justifiable!

Originally posted by Cinnamon Sticks:

To [Max] It's bane!:
I like the reasoning on your stats, and I also like the stats themselves kinda. But seriosuly, how often do you see weapons in TF2 that make sense in that way? XD

Many times. For example, the force-a-nature and soda popper only have two shots in a clip because they are double barreled. And the spy-cicle melts because of how ice reacts with fire. And those are just examples off of the top off of the top of my head.

Originally posted by Max It's Bane!:

Originally posted by Cinnamon Sticks:

To [Max] It's bane!:
I like the reasoning on your stats, and I also like the stats themselves kinda. But seriosuly, how often do you see weapons in TF2 that make sense in that way? XD

Many times. For example, the force-a-nature and soda popper only have two shots in a clip because they are double barreled. And the spy-cicle melts because of how ice reacts with fire. And those are just examples off of the top off of the top of my head.

But you also see ones that don't make sense.
Demoman Grenade launcher clearly looks like it holds 6 rounds.
Rocket launchers that hold 4 rockets.
A cannon that holds more than one cannonball.
An asian minigun that spurts fire and holds ammo in a wooden magazine.
Putting a dragon ornament on the end of a flamethrower makes it crit people from behind.
Flames on boxing gloves make you go fast.
Striking a machine with a wrench upgrades it.
And those are just examples I can think of off the top of my head.
:P

And the enforcer has a VERY short muzzle, but it does extra damage.
Clip size does NOT make sense in MOST TF2 weapons.
I am almost certain that the "lever-action" lever is just a grip. It looks like it's fused with the handle.

Also, added new stats to encourage people to unload the clip faster!

Originally posted by Cinnamon Sticks:

Originally posted by Max It's Bane!:

Many times. For example, the force-a-nature and soda popper only have two shots in a clip because they are double barreled. And the spy-cicle melts because of how ice reacts with fire. And those are just examples off of the top off of the top of my head.

But you also see ones that don't make sense.
Demoman Grenade launcher clearly looks like it holds 6 rounds.
Rocket launchers that hold 4 rockets.
A cannon that holds more than one cannonball.
An asian minigun that spurts fire and holds ammo in a wooden magazine.
Putting a dragon ornament on the end of a flamethrower makes it crit people from behind.
Flames on boxing gloves make you go fast.
Striking a machine with a wrench upgrades it.
And those are just examples I can think of off the top of my head.
:P

And the enforcer has a VERY short muzzle, but it does extra damage.
Clip size does NOT make sense in MOST TF2 weapons.
I am almost certain that the "lever-action" lever is just a grip. It looks like it's fused with the handle.

Also, added new stats to encourage people to unload the clip faster!

Yes, there are plentry examples where the stats with the design make no sense. But there are still a few where it does. In fact, I did what I do best? "Make bad puns?" No, that comes at a close second. "Research?" There you go!

If you look at the design for the degreaser and the phlog, just before the flames come out of the nozzle, there is an unusually large increase in pipe width. If you look at their designs you will know what I am talking about. What else do they have in common? Damage penalties. How about the Back scatter and Baby Face's Blaster? If you look at the default scatter gun, it has two barrels where it shoots out of. Back and Baby's both have only one barrel, AND a clip size of four.

And when I talked about the muzzles, I was talking about WIDTH, not LENGTH. Length is how far out it extends. Width, on the other hand, is the space between the two sides of the muzzle, as in, where the bullet comes out.

Demo grenades look like they hold 6 rounds? With four slots for grenades? I would try to calculate the size of the rockets to the size of the launcher's length to see if it could fit four, but I would need the pixel size of both. All of the others... yea, find someone else to explain those.

Originally posted by Cinnamon Sticks:

To Spade:
I'm not sure what you mean by the advantage of this with the deadringer. There is no advantage on there with the deadringer, I'm just trying to make it so that deadringer doesn't negate the fun of a quickdraw battle, but still trying to make it so the deadringer can still be used. If you made it so it insta-killed spies with the deadringer, too, then there would be no point in using the deadringer. The crit is to counteract the 90% damage reduction. Also, your comment about the knife makes me realize how much of a loadout helper this is. It can also help to take out groups of enemies you may be behind as a spy. There's that moment sometimes where you see a spy come out of nowhere and backstab every single enemy that's pushing towards your team's pitiful little sentry nest. But usually you just see that spy explode after the first backstab, because he got noticed. With this, you could keep backstabbing without worry, then quickly swtch to your revolver and unload on the crowd with the mini-crits. Though once you've fired your six shots, your dead meat 'cause of that reload time. Also, maybe the reloading with a quickloader should be taken out. (the thing that allows the spy to put all 6 bullets in at once) and instead he loads them in one by one.

Ah, I see, I see. But now that I think of it, this would give the advantage to the spy with the six shooter as they'd be able to see the crit on the spy they're shooting, giving away that they're using the Dead Ringer. I don't think the mechanic with the crit on spies with the Dead Ringer needs to be implemented, but that's just my opinion.

Originally posted by §pade♠:

Originally posted by Cinnamon Sticks:

Ah, I see, I see. But now that I think of it, this would give the advantage to the spy with the six shooter as they'd be able to see the crit on the spy they're shooting, giving away that they're using the Dead Ringer. I don't think the mechanic with the crit on spies with the Dead Ringer needs to be implemented, but that's just my opinion.

You make good points! I never thought of it like that. Thanks for the feedback!

I think it should also leave a small cloud of smoke in the place where you shot that is visible for ~5 seconds.