Store Page
Chivalry: Medieval Warfare
All Discussions Screenshots Artwork Broadcasts Videos Workshop News Guides Reviews

Chivalry: Medieval Warfare

Store Page
Chivalry: Medieval Warfare >  Workshop > Elko's Workshop > Horde Sandcastle > Discussions
Horde Sandcastle
Description Discussions91 Comments1485 Change Notes
Elko  [developer] 21 Nov, 2015 @ 3:53am
Throne-Defence Mode
The Issue
I don't quite like how end waves play out when only one player is alive.
The common strategy boils down to running around for a rather longer while exploiting the stupidity of bots to path correctly.
It's not fun to see bots hitting their heads on random obstactles for 15min or so for 90% of the players who need to spectate until next wave. This chicken run can't be very pleasing for the last player either, I imagine.

Throne-Defence Mode
As a solution (TODO for the next updates) the bots start to attack the throne (room) instead of the last player after they get bored of chasing him. Don't worry, that countdown would be long enough to use the most important traps and can be configured.
All bots the player attacks start to focus on that player again.

How it works
When it begins all bots go near throne room and a few attack the throne. It has hp and if it breaks Mason loses.
~2 or so bots start attacking the throne if:
  • currently no bot attacks it
  • enough time passed since the last ~2 bots started attacking (interval can be defined in config)

When the wave-end timer starts (when 7 or so bots remain, just like usual), the mode ends and all remaining bots focus on the player again.

Comparison to current State
Pros:
  • Player is always in combat -> more action
  • Player can choose how many bots to fight at once
  • The more bots remain the more difficult
  • Player can increase score more than usual -> motivation to stay alive for all

Cons:
  • Player has to fight in throne room
  • ..?


Any further or other suggestions to address 'The Issue'? ;)
Last edited by Elko; 21 Nov, 2015 @ 4:03am
< >
Showing 1-15 of 25 comments
Sandman.Dreams 21 Nov, 2015 @ 1:35pm 
Hmmm I like it! This sounds like good fun!

-------

So we do our usual thing, running around spiking/trapping etc.

Then after a certain time, we notice that the enemies are running for the throne room.

How do we get into the throne room if say we already used our F1 and they had the head start? Will we be auto teleported?

Will it be the same mechanic as if the enemies are attacking gates? They are pretty stupid when they are focused on an object and are easy to kill.

Would rushing forward to keep them off the throne work? Sort of like how inticing an enemy off a gate to the side works?

How about groups of 3... 2 attack player and 1 attacks throne?

How about (I mean pretty please do this instead) ALL remaining players after a time limit get sent to throne room instead of only a survivor. >:) sometimes theres 2-3 vets/chicken runners. Plus it'd be more fun!
#1
Elko  [developer] 21 Nov, 2015 @ 2:36pm 
I think I will just Display some kind of message (either in chat or HUD like when a gate is broken which is only visible to alive players) to indicate when the bots go for throne room.

You need to run to the throne room. Same goes for bots, which would be just behing you anyway.

I thought about using the gate-break-logic but I think it will be done differently. If you attack them just a single time the bot immediately forgets about the throne and attacks you instead.

You will have a small advantage when they all turn to run for the throne room because you can attack them once from behind. But as I said they immediately turn and attack you.

The number of bots attacking the player is totally up to the player. It depends on how many bots he attacks. I will have to test for exact numbers how many bots attack throne at once.

Hmm, I see your point to make start that mode before only one player remains. Should be possible. However, when exactly should the bots turn for the throne room? With just one player the trigger is simple: countdown begins when almost last player died.
#2
Ｊｕｇ 21 Nov, 2015 @ 3:54pm 
Sounds good.

How about triggering the horde to target the throne-room based on the percentage of alive players on the team (preferably adjusted via config), and/or after certain amount of time from the wave start?

Quick suggestion being 33% players left alive on a 10 player server, or after the wave has been going for more than 15 minutes.
Last edited by Ｊｕｇ; 21 Nov, 2015 @ 3:56pm
#3
Sandman.Dreams 21 Nov, 2015 @ 4:09pm 
Thumbs up! The modified gate-break logic sounds good.

Pretty please make the two parameters Jugen suggested adjustable via config.

So lets say theres 30 left, you're running around the castle and away from the throne room ATM, the throne room is already open, the horde stops chasing you and run towards the throne, they have a headstart so they get there before you. You've already used ur F1

Where do they all rest while the groups of 2 or 3 attackers go for the throne? Could we squeeze past the resting horde without them attacking us?
#4
Elko  [developer] 22 Nov, 2015 @ 3:38am 
The 2 config paras make sense to me. Thanks Jungen, I'll do that.

It's ok if the horde reaches the throne room before you. The throne can take some damage. You should just follow them soon. I will test such fine mechanics of course.
Also the throne can recover from damage similar to players.

Where would they all rest? Good question. I probably have to extract 100 positions (coordinates) close to the throne room, ordered in a list, which they would one after the other fill up.
In this way, there should always be enough space for the players to reach the throne.
Even though the bots won't move an inch, they still attack you if you get close. But it's not difficult to sprint past them.

I don't know if positioning them like this will work yet, because if the bot leading the horde to the throne room gets assigned a position not so close to the throne room, the others have to push past him somehow.... There is no reliable way to check which bot should stand where.

Edit:
Updated the config part of the Horde Sandcastle Guide (see map description) with further details.
Last edited by Elko; 29 Nov, 2015 @ 10:49am
#5
adhesive_tape 30 Nov, 2015 @ 5:29am 
Hello Elko! Who is the admin on a Russian server?
Yes, still.... Turned out a bad idea with a mission to protect the throne, players are unhappy because some people are running away from bots, while others simply do not have time to resort to the throne. we need to finalize the strategy or to put a few more guards near the throne. We run into the throne room, half of the bots standing in a stupor, 2-3 bot break the throne. And players on the map running around. Something wrong :(
And you can make the box not only to transfer money, but also weapons?
#6
Elko  [developer] 30 Nov, 2015 @ 10:28am 
transferring weapons? I dont see a reason for that. And that won't happen because donor weps should not be transferred.

And i can tell u what is wrong. The one player running around the map instead of defending the throne. Throne defence doesn't work if u do not defend the throne.
When it starts, a HUD message is displayed telling the last player what is going on. If he ignores that, the game is lost.

It might be worth considering how else to tigger throne defence apart from alive players running low or long wave time.
Maybe spectators can vote? Or should it be disabled for waves with a certain probability?
Last edited by Elko; 30 Nov, 2015 @ 10:46am
#7
Sandman.Dreams 30 Nov, 2015 @ 12:35pm 
My bro and I just tried it, we took our time with each wave to try and trigger the throne defense.

Only got it to trigger twice in 10 waves
-wave 6 after about 1-2 min with 2/2 players alive
-wave 10 instantly with 2/2 players and it kept spamming the message that it was activated over and over again and half the enemies were stuck outside in the yard and just outside the pallisade gates of the yard.

It was fun when it worked on gate 6. Better than I thought it would be.

I like how you made them wait INSIDE the throne room in a semi circle. Felt like a kungfu movie where they take turns.

Thumbs up so far!
#8
Elko  [developer] 30 Nov, 2015 @ 12:40pm 
Thx ^^
What do u mean it instantly activated. Right after the wave started?
What values did u used in the config.
Do u mean the message that slides in on the top screen?
#9
Sandman.Dreams 30 Nov, 2015 @ 12:48pm 
Yes right as the enemies started to spawn.

I didn`t touch the conifg since the update. Was too excited to try it.

Yes

-------
Im usually just 2 guys so ill change it to happen after 2ish mins and/or 50% players left
#10
Elko  [developer] 30 Nov, 2015 @ 12:55pm 
The throne defence mode is bugged so much that I will release a new version in less than a day.
It seems to always start after 15 min. Also found the cause for the spamming.

WTF! there is guy stuck in the throne... Didn't notice him before because he's not there in single player.
Last edited by Elko; 30 Nov, 2015 @ 1:12pm
#11
Sandman.Dreams 30 Nov, 2015 @ 1:12pm 
Nice! And my bad I didn`t check the config first.

With default config and as only 2-4players we never go to 15 mins unless terrible luck happens in later waves and we have to chicken run around in boring endless circles that no one except the attention seeking types enjoy..... Wait a second, this throne defense thingy worked out didn`t it lol

Thanks again! You should grab monsters from DarkSouls and throw em in the game :P Whatever happened to that cyclops you were working on?
#12
Sir Regalmont 1 Dec, 2015 @ 8:07am 
The issue is not clear. The "chicken run" as you call it, only happens when the team is unbalanced and a "pro" player survives. If the team is balanced all live or die at about the same time.
And the throne defence is not a solution for that. Unbalanced teams will die anyway with the throne defense and watching 1 or 2 guys killing all the bots 2by2 (while the AI attacks the throne) is boring and time consuming too, more than usual "chicken-running".
"chicken-running" is spectacular in the use of traps and techniques, also for spectators. Just remove the throne defence, really, is a big mistake.
The point is about team's balance. You cant fix that, only players can gain exp and learn how to survive longer. And that is actually what makes HordeSandcastle cool.
Last edited by Sir Regalmont; 1 Dec, 2015 @ 8:23am
#13
Elko  [developer] 1 Dec, 2015 @ 12:06pm 
Ok, I see how it goes myself this week.
#14
Sandman.Dreams 1 Dec, 2015 @ 12:42pm 
Regal i disagree. Even in small groups of 2-4 strong vet players it happens that 3 jedi chase us down one by one or we get spiked in silly funny ways leaving only 1 player alive to fight 50+

It's not about team balance, unless evry single round is like that from early on.

The default parameters shouldn't come up very often (15mins or 20% of players alive)

So if there's only 1 good player for every 4+ clueless cannon fodder meat sacs running around shopping in the yard, then yes this new feature will ruin the game and I agree with you, it would get old fast. But these parameters can be changed to suit the server to make it pop up less often if it's too much.

These clueless newbies would be kinda difficult to coax into voting it turned off anyways ^.^ (strokes his elitist hair-doo)

I like the chicken run, but this is nice too no? Something different? You still get to chicken run / use traps until the timer goes out.
Last edited by Sandman.Dreams; 1 Dec, 2015 @ 12:49pm
#15
< >
Showing 1-15 of 25 comments
Per page: 1530 50