No More Room in Hell

No More Room in Hell

nmo_minecraft_adventure
Cpt.Haxray 29 Dec, 2023 @ 1:11pm
Map Playthrough + Feedback
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErSe3NYDC8M

Map was completed on Classic. Normally maps in this series was done on Nightmare but this did not occur for several reasons I will be explaining.

I am going to start with the positives. The map looks nice at several points, there is some fun ideas floating around the map, like breaking ore to get loot and utilising minecraft stuff like minecarts. The Finale being a jump onto a boat that is on a timer is actually quite neat as well. The map's objective triggers work as intended and map is able to be completed. It is a helpful touch that the TNT will get teleported out of Deathpits and Lava if it accidentally falls into them.

Unfortunately, this is where all of the positives come to an end. This entire map is an exercise in frustration and cheap traps every single inch of the way. I'll start by going through the map chronologically.

1: It is not clear how to open the Metal door in the spawn room. It is usually figured out accidentally, but it is baffling choice to make it that you need to press E on a random button near the crafting table, instead of a button near the door. Additionally the button notably floats off of the wall when interacted with, which looks bad and feels sloppy.
The button should be moved next to the metal door.

2: The Supply crates being the Mario Star model is bizarre and misleading, especially in this starting area where everyone I've played with assumed it was the chest. The Mario Star does not fit in with the art style of the map and is a flat out strange choice. Additionally, this star is not locked in place, and as such it is possible to accidentally knock it over and make it incredibly difficult to access.

3: The Button has a massive delay between it being activated and the door opening. This would normally be fine, but its a hold E interaction, and the Hold E interaction remains accessible after activating it the first time. This leads to many players thinking it didn't work/bugged out and promptly start holding E again, only to get mauled to death by the door suddenly opening.

4: Even for most NMRIH standards, this starting room has dramatic shifts in how much supplies it gives. It can range from giving multiple fully fuelled up Saws and loads of ammo, to only kitchen knives and .22 rifles with no additional usable ammo. It would benefit from more static spawns instead of just the completely random supply box + "Melee Crates" to avoid the more extreme ends where players get stuck with nothing and are forced to restart the map.

5: The Starting horde feels way over blown for being the literal start of the map. Maps such as Broadway and Rockpit do also start with big hordes waiting outside the exit, but those maps give supplies/tools meant to help push through(Broadway with 2 exits and limited runners, Rockpit's with a very useful gas can). This map starts with nearly triple the amount of zombies waiting right at the front door, with no way to pick them off before the door opens unless a .357 or .308 rifle spawned, and has a LOT of runners to go with it.

6: The invisible wall near the garden feels incredibly lazy and poorly done. There is 0 visual indication you can't just go around the garden, and just slapping an invisible wall here is infuriating. The same applies for the Garden itself where it just feels awkward you're forced to walk on the path, especially when there is nothing visually blocking the player and when zombies can walk through it just fine. The Fence Gate can also blend into the rest of the Fencing rather easily, making it difficult for new players to figure out how to even enter the garden. Replacing the awkward invisible wall with an actual barrier and unclipping the Garden Fence, and making a more clear barrier around the path would work a lot better for the map.

7. Parkour in No More Room in Hell sucks ass if it goes on for extended jumps due to the nature of its Stamina system. The Lily Pad jumps go on for too long and force players to awkwardly sit around waiting for Stamina to come back. This gets extra annoying considering the water does damage, zombies can walk across the water, and that the lily pad platforms are incredibly small. This makes it super easy to knock other players off doing the jumps and is just overall a frustrating experience.

8. The Cave Entrance is the first of many giant runner swarms on this map, and the first of many where the map design makes them unable to reach players, and yet basically forces the players to abuse said path-finding to cut through the horde. It is essentially impossible to get into the cave itself to fight them "Normally" due to there being a single platform to get in and the zombies swarming it from the get go. Sitting over a block where runners cannot get you and waiting for them to eventually all die to melee weapons is incredibly dull and time consuming, especially on Nightmare. The only real hazard here is someone getting bored and jumping to the platform early and getting knocked off, or players knocking each other off due to the platforms being small. This entire area could use a redesign to both make the runners actually a threat, to reduce players knocking each other off, and to just overall make it more fun.

9. The TNT should swap places with the Medbox, and it should be clearer how to jump up to the second cave entrance. Due to the clipping on the side of the wall keeping players to the cobblestone parkour, it can make it easy to assume you simply cannot jump up to the second cave at the moment and that you'll access it later. This is not helped by the TNT's outline not being visible until you go up there. If all players see is a Medbox they're likely to ignore it, especially if there is no obvious way up, and no obvious place to place the medbox nearby.

10. Random Instant Death traps are not fun. Random Instant Death Pitfalls with no indication they are there, is not fun. Random Instant Death Pitfalls that you can lose map equipment to, such as guns, ammo, the Medbox, or most importantly the Welder, are especially not fun. Random Death Pitfalls that have a fake platform to the left that looks like you should be able to stand on it, but cannot due to player clipping, are not fun. Having to drag or carry objective items like TNT over a jump like this, is not fun. Having the Jump be incredibly tight and require really good timing to get across, is not fun. Just get rid of the instant death pit please it adds NOTHING to the map but frustration. At the very least, make it so the Welder and Medbox are teleported out of it like the TNT is.

11. The Coal dropping loot when broken is neat, but a lot of the times the loot clips through the coal. Additionally a lot of the loot it can drop is completely worthless, such as Wooden Boards(There is not a single hammer spawn on the entire map not even in supply crates).

12. Another runner horde where they cannot attack the players and players can attack them back with complete safety is dull, boring, and tedious.

13. The Floor in the middle of the room should be indicated as being breakable. It looks identical to the rest of the floor and the only way you'll know to break it is if you stumble onto it by accident or saw the rest of the map in spectator mode. Please make them cracked or glow or appear as some different kind of block. Anything to make it obvious you need to break them.

14. This Floor is also home to the first softlock of the map. There is no way back up the pit if players drop down. If players forget the TNT, or never grabbed it at all due to not knowing it existed, they cannot complete the map. This is downright terrible design, and there should be a ladder or some method of climbing back up. This can also render the first Welder inaccessible as well. It does not help you do not discover this is a Softlock until much further into the map where the TNT becomes mandatory for progression.

15. There is little reason to explore in the mines and this feels like a waste. Outside of just being a maze, the vast majority of paths end shortly in a wall with no loot or any rewards to encourage looking around. This, combined with how narrow the paths are, makes this entire area feel like a slog of slowly cutting through the zombie horde. ESPECIALLY on higher difficulties. Adding more loot around to find in this area would also help with other major issues with the map. I'm aware there is a few breakable chests and coal blocks, but the majority of the chests don't have anything inside of them, and the coal blocks are along the "Main Route" so to speak.

16. Why is the second Welder hidden in the mines in a side path people are unlikely to go down in a completely unmarked chest? This is an issue with the first welder as well, but at least players are more likely to find it by trying to break all of the chests in the spawn area. It is stupid that the second Welder is hidden this much when the Welders are mandatory for map progression.

17. The Second map Softlock can occur with the Minecart. The Minecart being instant death is just kinda annoying. It is possible for someone holding the Welder to die and have the Welder land inside the middle of the cart, making it nearly impossible to get the Welder back. This is not the softlock however. The Cart has collision with map objective items, like the TNT or Medbox. It is possible to get the Cart stuck against a wall by having it grab the TNT out of someone's hands and carry it over, and its possible for the TNT to equally be stuck, rendering it impossible to move and forcing a restart. This is downright infuriating even if it is rare, and there should not be any collision between the TNT and the Cart.

18. Third Runner Swarm where they cannot damage players and where it seems mandatory to abuse said spots due to the layout of the area. Please, stop doing these. Its not fun, its not difficult, it is just wasting time.

19. The ability to climb back up to the previous area should have a more clear layout as it is easy to assume you can't actually jump back up.

20. Why is there a random Brown Arrow directly beneath the Metal Gate you need to weld pointing at the wall? You can't interact with the Arrow, you can't interact with the wall it points to. This constantly confuses players and causes them to waste time or even assume the map is bugged trying everything possible on the wall where the arrow points. If its meant to show where to jump after welding the fence., that feels incredibly pointless as well as the platform is clearly visible through the metal fence at all times.

21. 4th runner swarm of the map that spawns in an area where they cannot injure the players, and where players are basically forced to slowly melee them to death from said safety. Brings back the problems of the original as well as the thin platform makes it surprisingly easy to shove teammates to their deaths.

22. This is a good time to mention the Welder does not get teleported back if it falls into a Death Pit or into Lava, despite being mandatory for map progression. It is incredibly easy to softlock the map if someone accidentally dies in Lava holding the Welder. If you take anything from this thread, please, make it so the Medbox and Welders get teleported out of the Death Pits and Lava pools, PLEASE.

23. More really bad player clipping, there is a lot of spots it looks like players should be able to stand but can't due to invisible walls. Please, just make it more clear there is no space for players to stand, there is no need or requirement for these invisible walls and it just makes people too afraid to jump anywhere.

24. Why does the Gold ore not drop anything? Why does it even exist? is it just to waste player's time?

25. Random Death Pitfall number 2 of the map! No indication, instant death for falling into it, and can softlock the map if you lose Welder to it. Like the other pit, this adds NOTHING to the map but frustration. Please, get rid of it.

26. The Parkour Room. This would be the single worst room of the map and the worst designed segment of the entire map, if it wasn't for the room directly after. A lot of the jumps require perfect timing to make it across the gap, and several become impossible if you're carrying too much stuff, forcing you to go back and redo the entire parkour multiple times just to drag stuff through the room, which is boring, and tedious, and infuriating because a single slip up leads to instant death and forcing a restart if you lose too much ammo(explained later) or the welder.

The ladder jump in particular is downright infuriating as the Ladder entity itself clips slightly into the wall on the left, meaning its possible to land on the ladder unexpectedly and fling yourself into the lava. Additionally it is super easy to get stuck on the ladder just trying to land on the block itself making it so much more annoying trying to get the TNT block.

Did I mention you need to drag the TNT and (Optionally). Medbox through this entire parkour segment? Its impossible to make the first few jumps carrying the TNT so you'll need to cosplay the Olympic Torch team and relay pass the TNT over via the ladder block, hence the frustration when getting stuck on the ladder. Now, it IS possible to use the cracked Brick block there to place the TNT on, but the Cracked Brick will break if you so much as breathe on it wrong. I don't get why this block was made breakable. (It also means if only a single person makes it here alive, they are softlocked if the block is broken).

Stamina really makes this take so much longer too as you're constantly forced to sit around and wait for stamina to recover just so you can continue making the jumps.

The fact that zombies at the top will respawn if you go back down to get more equipment is yet another annoyance piled onto this entire section.

Finally, since you regularly need to drop equipment to get past jumps and to go back and forth, the tiny size of the platforms makes it very easy to have gear bounce off the side and fall into the lava never to be seen or accessed again.

Honestly, replace the lava with Water and make a ladder to get out. Remove the instant kill lava all together. Make the jumps easier to do. Perhaps reduce the length of the room. As it currently stands this room is downright miserable and one of the biggest reasons i would advise people NOT to play this map, on-top of every other issue.

(Continued in Comment due to Letter Limit)
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Showing 1-4 of 4 comments
Cpt.Haxray 29 Dec, 2023 @ 1:13pm 
27. The Falling Magma room. This has to be the single worst designed segment of any NMRIH map that could be called finished, that I've ever played. I am sorry, i am not being hyperbolic here. This Room is why this map was deemed essentially infeasible to complete on Nightmare, this room by itself lead to over 50 Restarts, and its all for the wrong, wrong wrong reasons.

The Magma has collision with map objects. This includes the TNT, Medbox, dropped inventory items, and shot Arrows. If the Magma gets stuck you need to pray that the Magma gets unstuck, and that it doesn't delete the object that got it stuck. Unfortunately, of the 10 times the TNT Managed to get stuck, 9 times the TNT got erased from existence, forcing a map restart. I am aware you are aware of this bug, but I don't care. This bug is downright godawful and needs to be addressed, even if it means completely scrapping this room.

The majority of the times the Magma got stuck, it was a newer player failing the jump and their objects jamming the magma, or someone making the mistake of shooting the Bow and an arrow getting lodged in the worst spot. Both of these always seem to force a restart as the Magma will never get itself unstuck, ESPECIALLY if its due to an arrow in the wall as it becomes impossible to grab the arrow, and the Arrow won't move by itself. Arrows can also block the magma by having a zombie killed with them fall into the gap.

But this bug is not why this part sucks and made the map impossible on nightmare. No. It is the third platform. You decided to place a crap-load of runners here, that just material out of thin air. They cannot get you across the gap. but will never get close to the edge so you cannot melee them. The only time they will go near the Edge is if someone makes the mistake of jumping, in which case even on classic or casual difficulty they WILL get mauled to death near instantly, and then potentially jam the Magma due to their inventory items.

Essentially, you're forced to shoot the majority of them before you can even jump across. This takes and requires a massive amount of ammo. Ammo, that outside of the spawn room, does not spawn on the map. Sure, there is the occasional coal block that drops a single box of random ammo, that you got 0 Guarantee of being able to actually use, and there is a single guaranteed CZ with a full magazine, but none of it is enough by itself. I've easily blown through 100+ rounds and still had enough runners left alive due to them respawning, the distance of the shots, the runners moving, etc, that getting across was impossible.

This is why the map is impossible on Nightmare. Nightmare zombies have increased HP, making the ammo requirement both higher than on classical, and making it harder to melee them to death, meaning there is a higher amount you need to kill before you can get across. It is technically possible to complete this on Nightmare, but you would need really good RNG on the ammo spawns, NEVER FIRE A SINGLE BULLET AT ANY OTHER POINT IN THE MAP, and not have anyone die to a death-pit or lava so you can get all of the ammo across. Oh, and you can't use a bow either, because the Bow has a high chance of softlocking the Magma. And the Magma itself stops bullets, so the actual act of shooting all of the runners takes forever even if you do have enough bullets.

Whats your reward for finally killing them so you can get across, and avoiding all of the magma softlocks? You break the cracked Brick/Cobble and... it spawns more runners. behind the cobble. Out of Thin Air. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

28. Another potential softlock. There is a drop off here you cannot jump back onto. Accidentally forgot TNT or welder at the top? better restart map. Would be absolutely soul-crushing to have this happen after finally making it past the horrid Magma Falls room.

29. Why isn't this a respawn point? There is a resupply crate here, and with how long the map is, this would be a fantastic spot for a respawn.

30. Minor issue but the TNT explosion is lacking an actual explosion sound and the fact it only breaks like 4 blocks feels comically small for all of the hell you went through to drag it over here.

31. It is not clear at all that you can weld open the double Metal doors, especially as you could not weld any other metal door open. This is infuriating design considering if you don't weld them open you cannot get past the cobble deathtrap. Making it clearer you can weld the doors would be a massive improvement.

Also, forgot to mention this earlier, but every single welder point is bugged and lets you continue welding even after the object is broken.

32. Some of these jumps are, once again, incredibly long and tight, forcing you to drop equipment, and redo the jump multiple times to get across. It would be a massive improvement to just reduce the size of the jumping area so this is not an issue.

33. Runner Swarm that cannot injure players that players are basically forced to kill out of range of the runners number 5. I'm not counting the Magma Falls room as that entire segment is depressing enough as is and those runners inflict mental damage. Thankfully, due to the resupply crate being right before this bit, its basically impossible to not have enough ammo(but i imagine bad RNG could still cause that, or people failing the jump holding a lot of the ammo/guns...).

34. Instant Death arrow traps you can barely see due to the lighting! Yay!. Slight improvement over the instant death pits as you can actually tell they are there ahead of time by noticing the block, but it is incredibly easy to miss to get a punishment as severe as instantly dying. Improving the lighting or removing these completely would be a massive improvement.

35. Why is the mandatory path to progress finding out there is a fake wall? This adds nothing to the map but making people think the map is broken. Get rid of the fake wall, that should be for a secret or something, not mandatory progression. Also, the medbox spot is all the way over here, meaning that if you wanted to use it you had to drag it through half the entire map's length and through multiple parkour segments. Needless to say, not a single person is ever going to use this medbox.

37. Why is the Nether Portal one way? It does nothing but add another potential softlock if you accidentally leave the Welder behind. What? You dropped it after the Double Metal door thinking there's no way you would need it again? Too baaadddd~ better restart the entire map again!

38. Runner horde that cannot hurt you where you're encouraged to melee them from safety number 6. You had to be doing these intentionally right? Why?
Cpt.Haxray 29 Dec, 2023 @ 1:13pm 
39. The Third worst bit of the entire map. Your "Custom Runner" that has the minecraft zombie model on it has a major bug. It has a chance to randomly just despawn the Minecraft Zombie model before the zombie actually dies. This results in the Invisible Man. He cannot be seen, he can only be heard before he promptly murders you. I don't get the point of including a single MC zombie at this point either considering its been normal NMRIH zombies for the rest of the map, and this bug on him is INCREDIBLY infuriating. It was soul crushing to finally get here, only for people to get killed by the Invisible Man.

Also the model/prop/whatever it is isn't even rigged properly, and doesn't face the correct direction while moving. I would recommend just getting rid of this guy completely.

40. More Magma pits that don't teleport the Welder out, meaning its possible to lose the Welder here once again, softlocking the map. Please, let the Welder get teleported out.

41. Nether Fortress Parkour is incredibly easy to climb up, but it goes on for long enough that, once again, you're stuck waiting for stamina. Also, despite being easy, if someone does get over zealous and jumps without waiting for Stamina, its possible to lose the Welder here due to it falling into the Magma.

42. My group was too ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ scared to try to jump anywhere on-top of the nether fortress due to the map's previously random clipping, where we couldn't tell if jumping to the left would work or be met with a random invisible wall that promptly makes us plunge to our death. Your invisible walls were so terrible they caused soft PTSD of all future jumps that were remotely vague. Please fix the invisible walls.

43. Runner horde that cannot hurt you but where you're encouraged to cheese them from safety number 7.

44. Random Pitfall in middle of the single Nether brick platform. At least this one looks suspicious, but due to the misaligned textures not matching up to where the actual pitfall is, still can cheap kill players who think its a fakeout. Please fix the misaligned textures, this has to be one of the only times a misaligned texture has caused a fatality.

45. Sometimes, runners instantly spawn in on the opposite end of the jump after this pitfall. This is stupid. Don't do this please.

46. The Hitbox on the Wither skeletons are incredibly hard to tell and inconsistent. You never feel safe even in any of the intended safe areas, especially when some areas that DO look safe are not. This would work a lot better if the kill trigger was closer to the wither skeletons instead of weirdly extended and being slightly different in size for the last Skeleton.

47. The first cubby-hole you duck into after the first Wither Skeleton has visible Nodraw on the back of several of the Netherrack.

48. Runners constantly get stuck inside the walls from the Wither Skeletons. This looks terrible and makes it annoying to progress. There shouldn't be any zombies in this segment, IMO.

49. Worst example of the Wither skeleton hitboxes goes to the last 2. The cubby in the hallway with the last skeleton does NOT look safe and looks like its hitbox extends into it, but it does not. Meanwhile, the very end of the previous hallway has a noticeable gap where neither skeleton touches it, making it look safe, but that area is NOT safe and standing there will get you killed.

50. Way, way too many runners in the last "Portal" room encourages an annoying amount of time spent baiting them out past the skeleton to kill them one by one, because trying to run past the skeleton leads to instant death via runner swarm.

51. Why is the Resupply box on the Nether side of the Portal? The Portal is one way(Another Potential Softlock), but the respawn is on the Desert Temple side, meaning respawning players cannot go back to get any of the supplies. Either make the Nether Portal work both ways, or move the supply box to the Desert Temple side of the Respawn.

52. The Magnetic Parkour room. Slow to get an entire group across due to how easy it is to knock people off. Non-Intuitive controls with a bizarre gimmick that kills people not expecting to have to air-surf across. Additionally, it is infuriating how the runners only show up once you are mid-way through the Parkour, and it is nearly impossible to land accurate shots while on the parkour. This basically forces some people to stick around on the first platform and cover the person doing the parkour, else they get instant killed at the end.

Also, yet another chance to softlock the map via having welder fall into the death pit below the parkour.

53. Why is this metal gate even here at the end of the map? Why force people to drag the welder through the entire map? It adds nothing except frustration and countless ways to softlock forcing a restart. It could just be a metal door you open with a button and NOTHING would meaningful change except for being way less frustrating.

54. Why is there such a long delay between completing the Welding interaction, the camera cutting to the extraction, and the metal gate breaking? I've seen people get killed thinking they accidentally canceled the Welder interaction the first time, leading to them being directly in-front of the runner horde after the camera snaps as they try to weld it a second time.

55. There is way too many runners that spawn in at once for this final Bit. while I love the idea of pushing through them to get to the dock and holding out until the boat circles around so you can jump on, this is not how the map plays out in practice. The amount of runners generally means people just rush the door, jump onto the Pyramid, wait for the ship, then dash for the Docks. This is a very unsatisfying end to a very unsatisfying map.

I Feel horrible saying this, but in its current state, Minecraft Adventure is one of the worst soul draining and infuriating levels i've played for this game.
Last edited by Cpt.Haxray; 3 Jan, 2024 @ 10:37am
I´m the player who got the deathless runthrough, These points are all fair and fixing them would improve the map greatly, Its a potencial gem of a map if these points got fixed.
IIIKXLLSWXTCHIII 1 Feb, 2024 @ 8:35am 
do you think you could make a minecraft steve skin? because there's no mod of the minecraft steve skin and just only the minecraft modded maps
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