Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
All the "odd" rituals I think are fine. Mobility is fine, cloning is fine, the citadel of the dreams is fine. I mostly used small and golden mirror phantasmals (silver SHOULD be fine, I will experiment next game, large mirror seems overkill), no complaint for that. Yeah small mirror phantasmals fall to a stiff breeze, I use them as a smoke screen for the more valuable stuff (literally anything, but becomes very useful when you get golden mirrors pumping strong units) and when you get a tidal wave of light and vapour going they can actually kill, and if nothing else tie mages. Otherworldly and Monsters go without even saying.
Probably the only class that makes citadel defenses traps for the enemies, really. A tier 2 or 3 illusionist can put everyone to sleep, so archers and defenses won't act unless they are hurt, and meanwhile the mirrors start pumping out creatures that will go straight through the walls. Of course you work better with other "real" mages, but a well funded Illusionist can and do a lot by himself.
My problem is with other elements of the kit. Spell Mirrors, in theory, are my dreamed magic artillery for cheap, no summoning RNG, straight up a spellcaster for 5 gems at small mirror. Great, right? Not really. The small mirror have 10 charges. A very prevalent illusionist spell is Terror, which means a significant number of your battles will end with enemies fleeing.
Fleeing enemies that your spell mirrors will keep targeting with further Terror, Sleep, Confusion, Light, etc. Making them an absolute gem sink. Another I am not too found of, large mirror summonings, at 50 gems and 2 AP. If I want to pump out cheapo illusions to clog the battlefield, I find the regular mirrors to be perfectly adequate. Sure the bigger one will pump out more in the same time, but without good Phantasmal illusions there's just so many of them you can make a real use of, and I find 1 small mirror to 1 golden mirror a perfect ratio.
Phase Beasts. 25 gems, a panther with a lot of attacks, or a spider with a short range bite. Being the only real summon (not even using empty mirrors? Odd), they feel extremely overpriced for what they offer. Hard to hit at range, slightly harder to hit up close, stealth. The panther got a bunch of attacks, the spider is just mediocre. Sure you can use stealth because the T3 Illusionist is invisible, but what good is a stealthy force for Phase Beasts going to do without mirrors, costing 25 gems a pop?
Mirror Guard, they're alright. A frontline while you wait your mirrors to pump out is something you will want. They're tough and the slow is not a factor. 10 gems and only at the citadel of the dreams though, makes hard to capitalize on them. The rest of the new additions, nothing to say, they're fine/fun.
My suggestions are, ditch out the phase beasts for a diced summon, perhaps using an empty mirror (demons? Ghosts? Let your imagination fly). Ditch out ALL spell mirrors with their charges system, a ritual to transform them into units with a spell ranged attack (can have limited uses) or give them Illusionism lore at a higher gem cost. A ritual to recharge (unlikely) or scrub (more realistic) nearly spent mirrors so you can refill them without having to risk they pumping 1 charge in a critical battle and going silent.
As a final note, Illusionist economy. You're not spending just gems, you're having to buy mirrors. In theory you can reuse them, but it is an added upfront cost, and if you lose the battle they're gone. A small mirror spell is not 5 gems, it is 5 gems and 10 gold, so in Elysiumnomics it is 10 gems, and a golden mirror for an army teleport is 100 gold (worth 50) gems +25 gems, and the mirror is gone if you used it for a escape.
And a small comparison with the Monkey Maharaja, also (initially) having a mixed gem economy. I played New Empire and there were nearly 0 mines, but plenty of cities, I had some gold but I had to buy about all my gems. Could get nearly nothing done in that game. Meanwhile, while the monkeys would also suffer, at least they're a hybrid class, the warlord could take over and push them past a miserable early game. The Illusionist is do or die, and that time, it died.
Phase beasts - I don't really have any strong feelings on their value so I'll check that out and try to make the price more appealing if I also find it's overpriced. I don't think I'd want to throw them out and replace with something else entirely, but there's definitely room to add more variety to the ritual.
Mirror Guard - I can see where the single recruitment spot might be a bit too restrictive for what they are and will probably update to have them unlocked by owning a Master Illusionist instead.
Spell Mirrors - I'm not crazy about ditching the mirror system entirely for a more typical summoning ritual, however I think the concept of flexible scrub/recharge rituals for mirrors is a fantastic middle ground that will alleviate some of the limitations of the existing mechanic while keeping it intact.
Silver mirrors are ok.The numbers they put out is, indeed, low, However, the weakest unit possible for Soldiers (archer?) and Animals (wolf?) are respectively, 5 and 4 times tougher than the illusory equivalent. These units can, reliably, take a hit and keep fighting. However, there are odds of putting out the strongest units (knight, bear, moose) that will be magnitudes more durable than the illusory equivalent. So yes, a silver mirror will be 25 gems + 30 gold for potentially 5 spearmen or 5 wolves, but it may also be 5 knights and 5 bears wrecking the enemy.
But illusory units still have their uses. At worst, they are a smoke screen for all the other, more valuable units. At best, an illusory archer can fire an illusory arrow, an illusory knight can quickly cross the map to deliver 3 illusory attacks, and a illusory moose will trample, pushing your units back and the enemy forwards. And the large mirror puts these out at a decent rate, which is nice.
The problem is that the Large Mirror is not just Animals and Soldiers. It is also Unearthly, Swarm, and Monster. Unearthly is ok, about all the possible outputs have at least one ranged magid attack, a lot have multiple. Monster is... awful. Indeed a illusory beholder will do as much damage as a real one, The difference is... 81 hitpoints. It holds 5 monster figures, and basically if it is not a glass ranged cannon like the Beholder or Dragon, it will be a waste. For 50 gems.
Interestingly enough, the dud of golden mirrors, Swarm, is pretty ok with the large mirror. 50 charges, 10 a pop, less than the golden, but there will be no significant difference between a illusory and a phantasmal bug.
I think it is worth going over with more experience Illusionist players, but I suggest taking Monsters and Unearthly from the Large Mirror. Too few figures, too frail, the conditions in which these units can offer value are very rare. I suggest no changes to other mirrors.
Would like to say, it is interesting how the Illusionist magic complements the illusions. 1hp, but ethereal, hard to hit. Well, they won't be attacking if they are sleeping, they will be attacking less if they are confused, and will be hitting even less if they are blind. I will experiment with no archers (or perhaps crossbows) to maximize sleep time and see how's the offensive power of the illusions next time.
Big props to RCIA for the focus required to form a coherent opinion on mirror balance. There's so much fiddly rng involved I just spam all my rituals evenly and hope it works.
What I can speak intelligibly about is tide weaver! First of all, love it. The Gripe: it turns my tidy mixed-gem ui into a sorted-gem mess, leaving me agonizing over every sapphire spent on normal rituals. Despite the thematic sensibility of the tide weaver using blues, having her be mixed gems like the rest of the class would be more QoL.
Of course, you could always take it the other direction, and make a swanky new commander for the other three gem types. And just because I can't resist armchair deving, here's some now! Stop reading here or grab a snack I guess!
Shayatin:
Illusionists, mirages, deserts. That's something right? This commander would freespawn from oases, similar to the Bakimono's Daininja. In combat, they present 2 magic claws, ethereality, slightly super-human HP and MR. Nothing to write home about, and in a stand up fight they belong in the back ranks casting with their Illusionism 1. Desert Move and Desert Stealth give them the ability scout deserts for you, but not much else.
Supplied with emeralds, though, and they can do more. They can summon Jinn in deserts, which also have desert move/stealth, and are similar to the Shayatin in combat. This can produce an ambush army that suicide-ganks key officers for "only" a stack of emeralds.
In lieu of mastery, they evolve through a level 1 ritual on some kind of desert terrain (trade posts or pyramids i think). This turns them into a stationary "Shayatin King" that has Illusionism 2, an economic bonus, and/or births Jinn. To be done once the desert is secure. Other rituals might include laying stealthy defenders on desert terrain like oases and pyramids.
Apostate:
I love False Idol! Thematically! I don't love looking at it when I have no Temple mapped. My proposal: a commander recruited from temples, which can take the ritual off the Illusionists' hands. This one plays on the connection between diamonds and the divine. This would be a doughy human with Illusionism 1. All about the Utility/economy rituals.
False Idol, obviously. With Idol established, they can make weaker "False Shrines" in Villages and hamlets within 5 squares of an Idol---Illusionism 1 and +1 GpT on these things. With Mastery, becomes a Liar Prophet with Illusionism 2. This is mostly useful for the sake of a VERY expensive ritual that transforms a Master Illusionist into a God of Lies with Illusionism 4 and a big durable god bod.
Gremlin:
Gremlins are red, burny, and otherwise ruby-befitting. I propose that normal Gremlins be given a mastery ritual that gives them destruction 2. For their advanced rituals, I think they should be A:Nasty. B:Capable of backfire. And C: Feel like you're breaking the world.
I have a lot of half-baked ideas, honestly. The ability to destroy a conquered citadel you don't think you can hold? The ability to open a permanent void portal that horrors can come through? Perhaps sacrificing an expensive mirror to summon a small group of non-commander gremlins (stupid?).
Right now I have a fairly large update in progress, and I haven't quite turned to Illusionist fully yet, so I'll circle back for a few thoughts.
I'll probably add a forum thread for new ideas/WIP stuff so I can get some feedback before it's out.
I have dabbled in a mirror recharge or scrub ritual as I think that could be a really nice QoL feature. It unfortunately doesn't look like either will be straightforward to implement so I'm gonna try a few more "outside the box" ways to configure those rituals before I throw in the towel and try something different. I don't think mirrors should be 100% efficient and should require "gem upkeep" to some extent but I do think having agency to mend a mirror with 1 charge remaining is worthwhile and alleviates feeling penalized just for how a particular battle turned out.
Admittedly I had a similar afterthought since my last comment regarding the mirror guard of, "then why cast Palace of Dreams?", they are currently a nice bonus to incentivize using the ritual, and I'm not sure I'd want to separate them just to add something entirely new to the palace to compensate. They might be best left as a niche "bonus" unit rather than a staple of the Illusionist's ranks, but not entirely set on either decision yet.
I think a few gem specific rituals is a great suggestion. The Tide Weaver dynamic is currently not super engaging as there's basically no incentive to ever not focus sapphires.
I'd still like the Illusionist to be the star of the show with his mixed gem rituals reigning supreme, with specific gem rituals/units being about as impactful as the Tide Weaver currently is. Not game changing but an interesting alternate application for certain gems.
Gremlins are a nice fit for rubies and most straightforward is to change their summon cost to rubies with room to give them their own interesting use for rubies as well.
Similarly, the Idol is a good fit to be the diamond cost ritual, and a temple scaling commander with a little extra utility could be a good move.
An emerald cost ritual/commander will likely be something entirely new.
I will experiment with the various mirror rituals to see if anything sticks out as being grossly mispriced for what it offers, or a particular mirror feels very lackluster.
-Add color spray mirrors into the table for the existing spell mirror rituals. This route would mean you couldn't mass-produce color sprayers, and doesn't add a ritual.
-A new ritual or set of rituals that make only color-spray mirrors. This would enable mass producing color guns, something you'd research if you anticipated mindless armies.
-A new, not-a-mirror unit, %chance recruited, summoned, and/or recruitable from the Palace. A siege weapon color gun, with slow. Slow gives a nice drawback to fielding something focused on direct magic damage, which admittedly can be quite strong if stacked in quantity.
Buff to Dream Palace: Change "Build Idol" and "Mirror Crystals" rits to also target the dream palace.
That's a decent suggestion for some extra interaction with the Dream Palace.