I have several!

- This isn't exactly about mechanics but the borders of themata needs a serious rework as it is all over the place in both start dates.

-Relevant to the above, several places could seriously use new counties of 1-2 barony size.
Places that come to mind immediately are Southern Italy to depict the numerous settlements there and Byzantines holding on to some several towns until 1070s, Dalmatian coast where there were several holdings still in Byzantine possession, Morea to represent some Slav tribes being settled there and Thessaloniki to represent that the city was also an islet in a sea of Slavs(although all being under Byzantine rule) settled in the country side.

-Those dynatoi who held on to large estates being represented in some form, I think easiest way to do that would be to make their contract start with title removal protection and only allow the strategos tand the capital of the duchy/theme to be removed.

-More interactions with the patriarch could be nice and perhaps an improved system on how he is selected, including being appointed and removed by emperor, which could give the emperor and patriarch both some modifiers, good and bad.

-More historical characters both alive and dead, which I can as I previously said, help with. I have added several hundred historical characters so far, with some small notes on them. Below are some as a sample if you are interested, including some characters already existing but their family connections were previously missing.



justinian_new2= {
name = "Praeiecta" # Niece of Justin I, sister to Justin II and Marcellus
female = yes
dynasty = 1022186 # Iustinianus
religion = "orthodox"
culture = greek
mother = 70527
515.1.1 = {
birth = "515.1.1" #Unknown
}
533.1.1 = {
add_spouse = areobindus5 # Married to Areobindus before 544, he died in march 546
}
547.1.1 = {
add_spouse = pompeius16 # Ioannes son of Pompeius, grand son of Hypatius# married between 546-548
}
575.1.1 = {
death = "575.1.1" # Unknown death date
}
}

7759 = {
name = "Gordianus"
dynasty = 125410# gens Anicii
religion = "catholic"
culture = "roman"
trait = diligent
trait = calm
trait = zealous
trait = education_diplomacy_3
father = Anicii26
480.1.1 = {
birth = "480.1.1"
}
535.5.13 = {
name = "Agapetus"
# AKA: Gordianus
}
536.6.8 = {
death = "536.6.8"
}
}

Anicii27= {
name = "Palatinus" # Brother of pope Agapetus and grandfather of pope Gregory I
dynasty = 125410# gens Anicii
religion = catholic
culture = roman #
father = Anicii26
495.1.1 = {
birth = "495.1.1" #
}
555.1.1 = {
death = "555.1.1" # Unknown
}
}

amorion2= {
name = "George" # Father of Leon. Father or Grandfather of Michael II was cousin or uncle of Nikephoros I
dynasty = 8642 #
religion = iconoclast
culture = greek
father = amorion1
730.1.1 = {
birth = "730.1.1"
}
780.1.1 = {
death = "780.1.1"
}
}

amorion3= {
name = "Leon" # Michael II's father
dynasty = 8642 #
religion = iconoclast
culture = greek
father = amorion2
752.1.1 = {
birth = "752.1.1"
}
802.1.1 = {
death = "802.1.1"
}
}

amorion4= {
name = "Leontia" # Theophilus was related to "Elder Martinakes", it is thought it was through an unnamed aunt
female = yes
dynasty = 8642 #
religion = iconoclast
culture = greek
father = amorion3
795.1.1 = {
birth = "795.1.1"
}
815.1.1 = {
add_spouse = martinakoi_new8 #
}
850.1.1 = {
death = "850.1.1"
}
}

Argyros6= {
name = "Zoe" # Unnamed daughter of Basileus who married Konstantinos Diogenes and is the mother of Romanos Diogenes
female = yes
dynasty = 639 # Argyros
religion = "orthodox"
culture = greek #
father = 41310
1010.1.1 = {
birth = "1010.1.1" # Unknown
}
1029.1.1 = {
add_spouse = 20525 #
}
1069.1.1 = {
death = "1069.1.1" # Unknown
}
}

Originally posted by Abaçı:

I have several!

- This isn't exactly about mechanics but the borders of themata needs a serious rework as it is all over the place in both start dates.

-Relevant to the above, several places could seriously use new counties of 1-2 barony size.
Places that come to mind immediately are Southern Italy to depict the numerous settlements there and Byzantines holding on to some several towns until 1070s, Dalmatian coast where there were several holdings still in Byzantine possession, Morea to represent some Slav tribes being settled there and Thessaloniki to represent that the city was also an islet in a sea of Slavs(although all being under Byzantine rule) settled in the country side.

-Those dynatoi who held on to large estates being represented in some form, I think easiest way to do that would be to make their contract start with title removal protection and only allow the strategos tand the capital of the duchy/theme to be removed.

-More interactions with the patriarch could be nice and perhaps an improved system on how he is selected, including being appointed and removed by emperor, which could give the emperor and patriarch both some modifiers, good and bad.

-More historical characters both alive and dead, which I can as I previously said, help with. I have added several hundred historical characters so far, with some small notes on them. Below are some as a sample if you are interested, including some characters already existing but their family connections were previously missing.



justinian_new2= {
name = "Praeiecta" # Niece of Justin I, sister to Justin II and Marcellus
female = yes
dynasty = 1022186 # Iustinianus
religion = "orthodox"
culture = greek
mother = 70527
515.1.1 = {
birth = "515.1.1" #Unknown
}
533.1.1 = {
add_spouse = areobindus5 # Married to Areobindus before 544, he died in march 546
}
547.1.1 = {
add_spouse = pompeius16 # Ioannes son of Pompeius, grand son of Hypatius# married between 546-548
}
575.1.1 = {
death = "575.1.1" # Unknown death date
}
}

7759 = {
name = "Gordianus"
dynasty = 125410# gens Anicii
religion = "catholic"
culture = "roman"
trait = diligent
trait = calm
trait = zealous
trait = education_diplomacy_3
father = Anicii26
480.1.1 = {
birth = "480.1.1"
}
535.5.13 = {
name = "Agapetus"
# AKA: Gordianus
}
536.6.8 = {
death = "536.6.8"
}
}

Anicii27= {
name = "Palatinus" # Brother of pope Agapetus and grandfather of pope Gregory I
dynasty = 125410# gens Anicii
religion = catholic
culture = roman #
father = Anicii26
495.1.1 = {
birth = "495.1.1" #
}
555.1.1 = {
death = "555.1.1" # Unknown
}
}

amorion2= {
name = "George" # Father of Leon. Father or Grandfather of Michael II was cousin or uncle of Nikephoros I
dynasty = 8642 #
religion = iconoclast
culture = greek
father = amorion1
730.1.1 = {
birth = "730.1.1"
}
780.1.1 = {
death = "780.1.1"
}
}

amorion3= {
name = "Leon" # Michael II's father
dynasty = 8642 #
religion = iconoclast
culture = greek
father = amorion2
752.1.1 = {
birth = "752.1.1"
}
802.1.1 = {
death = "802.1.1"
}
}

amorion4= {
name = "Leontia" # Theophilus was related to "Elder Martinakes", it is thought it was through an unnamed aunt
female = yes
dynasty = 8642 #
religion = iconoclast
culture = greek
father = amorion3
795.1.1 = {
birth = "795.1.1"
}
815.1.1 = {
add_spouse = martinakoi_new8 #
}
850.1.1 = {
death = "850.1.1"
}
}

Argyros6= {
name = "Zoe" # Unnamed daughter of Basileus who married Konstantinos Diogenes and is the mother of Romanos Diogenes
female = yes
dynasty = 639 # Argyros
religion = "orthodox"
culture = greek #
father = 41310
1010.1.1 = {
birth = "1010.1.1" # Unknown
}
1029.1.1 = {
add_spouse = 20525 #
}
1069.1.1 = {
death = "1069.1.1" # Unknown
}
}

Add me on discord: redrovermars, I'm looking for something like this for a future update.

Originally posted by Mars:

Originally posted by Abaçı:

I have several!

Add me on discord: redrovermars, I'm looking for something like this for a future update.

Ah sorry, never used discord and not sure how it works but as said these are just a sample, most of the work that's done is already posted in the mod section of the paradox forums, you can find them there. I am posting these for someone else's mod, Byzantine Genealogies expanded but I'm thinking of opening a seperate thread (probably with the name ABBC) with the intention of anyone who wants to use them as they wish.

If you aren't planning to use it immediately then it's even better, right now I'm working on finishing the members I've found for Komnenos/Erotikos family and after that I'll put a hold for a while and check and correct errors, add missing connections (marriage, parent-child etc.).

Originally posted by Abaçı:

Originally posted by Mars:

Add me on discord: redrovermars, I'm looking for something like this for a future update.

Ah sorry, never used discord and not sure how it works but as said these are just a sample, most of the work that's done is already posted in the mod section of the paradox forums, you can find them there. I am posting these for someone else's mod, Byzantine Genealogies expanded but I'm thinking of opening a seperate thread (probably with the name ABBC) with the intention of anyone who wants to use them as they wish.

If you aren't planning to use it immediately then it's even better, right now I'm working on finishing the members I've found for Komnenos/Erotikos family and after that I'll put a hold for a while and check and correct errors, add missing connections (marriage, parent-child etc.).

It'd probably be used for version 0.2 which would come probably after Legacy of Persia releases.

Originally posted by Mars:

Originally posted by Abaçı:

Ah sorry, never used discord and not sure how it works but as said these are just a sample, most of the work that's done is already posted in the mod section of the paradox forums, you can find them there. I am posting these for someone else's mod, Byzantine Genealogies expanded but I'm thinking of opening a seperate thread (probably with the name ABBC) with the intention of anyone who wants to use them as they wish.

If you aren't planning to use it immediately then it's even better, right now I'm working on finishing the members I've found for Komnenos/Erotikos family and after that I'll put a hold for a while and check and correct errors, add missing connections (marriage, parent-child etc.).

It'd probably be used for version 0.2 which would come probably after Legacy of Persia releases.

Great! Just to point out to the thread.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/mod-byzantine-genealogies-expanded.1593549/page-8#post-29220247

One thing I forgot to add in my first post, although it is not mechanics, it is flavour: Cultures!

Several cultures that historically existed within the empire's borders in 1066 start or at the very least in 867 start don't even exist in the game and some that do exist in the game are not represented.

Below I'll mention some that come to mind immediately, but if you are interested I'll check my notes sometime and provide more.

Starting with cultures that do exist in game:

- In 867 start several places that should be of Slavic culture in the Balkans under Byzantine rule and even parts of Asia Minor are shown as Greek. Same goes for some eastern counties where Armenians or some Arab tribes were settled. Perhaps Persians as well considering the Khurramites.

- In 1066 start several counties in the Balkans should have Pecheneg counties as there were Pecheneg "settlers" within the borders of the empire. There were some "Turks from Vardar" who were probably Hungarians/Magyars around Ochrid and also some Lombards who left southern Italy and were settled In Balkans. In Asia Minor a county or two can also get a French/Norman culture considering thousands of soldiers settled there.

Cultures that don't exist:


-At least two different Gothic groups, Crimean Goths which should still preserve their identity in 1066 start and Gothograeci which should be a Hybrid culture in 1066 start with Greek language and Germanic heritage but perhaps a purely Gothic culture should exist where they were settled in 867 and a third, Phrygian Goths may have still been around in 9th century.

-Although there isn't much mention of them, Galatians and Isaurians may have been still around in early ninth century. Although I can't find the source now, I remember seeing them among a list of people that were still around in early ninth century. I found another mention of them in the army of Emperor Michael I, though I can't exactly say it mentions them as still as a seperate culture, but rather the inhabitants of a region since it goes like this:

"The Asiatic forces had been assembled in Thrace, and even
the garrisons which protected the kleisurai leading into Syria
had been withdrawn to fight against a foe who was at this
moment more formidable than the Caliph. Lycaonians, Isaurians, Cilicians, Cappadocians, and Galatians were compelled
to march northwards, much against their will, and the Armeniacs
and Cappadocians were noticed as louder than the others in
their murmurs.

This book is A History of the Eastern Roman Empire from the Fall of Irene to the Accession of Basil I. (A.D. 802-867). You can freely access it in the library of congress, it should be in page 349-350 of the book.

Rename the Senate to "Politeia" to embrace Anthony Kaldellis preferred word for what was the continuation of the republican senate and government.
Politeia is also the greek word which describe the pricipate system, or what has evolved from it, which again is a continuation of the republican spirit into the imperial regime.

Also, in my mod I have this little mini game to fight for recognition by the latin west as the true Romans, using the French as heirs of Chralemagne until the HRE is formed, and then HRE as the competitor in the eyes of the pope.
If the French, or later the HRE have a larger army, an emperor with more prestige then the pope and the western chirch will recognize them as the true Romans, and the real Roman(Byz) emperor will lose prestige and opinion by all direct vassals permanently until the real Romans(Byz) rise above and become more prestigious and their army larger to remove this penalty by forcing the west and the pope to acknowledge the east in a respectful manner.

They might still think the HRE as Romans though, so to remove this once and for all you have to force the barbarian of the west to dismantle the idea of a "western roman usurper" a.k.a HRE.

Originally posted by Abaçı:

One thing I forgot to add in my first post, although it is not mechanics, it is flavour: Cultures!

Several cultures that historically existed within the empire's borders in 1066 start or at the very least in 867 start don't even exist in the game and some that do exist in the game are not represented.

Below I'll mention some that come to mind immediately, but if you are interested I'll check my notes sometime and provide more.

Starting with cultures that do exist in game:

- In 867 start several places that should be of Slavic culture in the Balkans under Byzantine rule and even parts of Asia Minor are shown as Greek. Same goes for some eastern counties where Armenians or some Arab tribes were settled. Perhaps Persians as well considering the Khurramites.

- In 1066 start several counties in the Balkans should have Pecheneg counties as there were Pecheneg "settlers" within the borders of the empire. There were some "Turks from Vardar" who were probably Hungarians/Magyars around Ochrid and also some Lombards who left southern Italy and were settled In Balkans. In Asia Minor a county or two can also get a French/Norman culture considering thousands of soldiers settled there.

Cultures that don't exist:


-At least two different Gothic groups, Crimean Goths which should still preserve their identity in 1066 start and Gothograeci which should be a Hybrid culture in 1066 start with Greek language and Germanic heritage but perhaps a purely Gothic culture should exist where they were settled in 867 and a third, Phrygian Goths may have still been around in 9th century.

-Although there isn't much mention of them, Galatians and Isaurians may have been still around in early ninth century. Although I can't find the source now, I remember seeing them among a list of people that were still around in early ninth century. I found another mention of them in the army of Emperor Michael I, though I can't exactly say it mentions them as still as a seperate culture, but rather the inhabitants of a region since it goes like this:

"The Asiatic forces had been assembled in Thrace, and even
the garrisons which protected the kleisurai leading into Syria
had been withdrawn to fight against a foe who was at this
moment more formidable than the Caliph. Lycaonians, Isaurians, Cilicians, Cappadocians, and Galatians were compelled
to march northwards, much against their will, and the Armeniacs
and Cappadocians were noticed as louder than the others in
their murmurs.

This book is A History of the Eastern Roman Empire from the Fall of Irene to the Accession of Basil I. (A.D. 802-867). You can freely access it in the library of congress, it should be in page 349-350 of the book.

If I can do a lot of that without causing compatibility issues I'll see what I can do. If not, it might be up to something like Cultures Expanded to add some sort of cultural flavor in that region.

Originally posted by Army of Two AXIS:

Rename the Senate to "Politeia" to embrace Anthony Kaldellis preferred word for what was the continuation of the republican senate and government.
Politeia is also the greek word which describe the pricipate system, or what has evolved from it, which again is a continuation of the republican spirit into the imperial regime.

Also, in my mod I have this little mini game to fight for recognition by the latin west as the true Romans, using the French as heirs of Chralemagne until the HRE is formed, and then HRE as the competitor in the eyes of the pope.
If the French, or later the HRE have a larger army, an emperor with more prestige then the pope and the western chirch will recognize them as the true Romans, and the real Roman(Byz) emperor will lose prestige and opinion by all direct vassals permanently until the real Romans(Byz) rise above and become more prestigious and their army larger to remove this penalty by forcing the west and the pope to acknowledge the east in a respectful manner.

They might still think the HRE as Romans though, so to remove this once and for all you have to force the barbarian of the west to dismantle the idea of a "western roman usurper" a.k.a HRE.

I have planned updates to do something like this, just going to be sort of different. I do need to add flavor for 867 with the Karlings though, that it is something I wasn't exactly planning on adjusting but I've got an idea.

@Mars Just to let you know, I've posted it all. 1100 or so characters, although I've added somefictional ones to fill the gaps between some known historical characters and a few fictional descendants in a number of places, over 1000 of them are historical people. Missing family members for the Bulgarian royal families of Dulos, Krums, and Kometopulis(all thought to be actually the same family) Two bulgarian families that doesn't exist in the game, missing members of several Byzantine Emperors, missing members of several families that at were part of the empire at one point or another, including the Ostrogothic royal family of the Amals, several families that didn't exist in the game at all.

Even listing them all would be very long but for ease of use I've grouped them Under Bulgaria and Byzantine Empire, within Bulgaria it is grouped by the family name and those within Byzantine empire are further grouped into Families of emperors which are then grouped according to dynasty or emperor and for the none imperial families, according to the ethnic origins with Romans and Greeks grouped together, Bulgars and Slavs grouped together,, Armenians and Georgians grouped together, Persians and Arabs grouped together and all Germanics (though I've given german culture to most considering the lack of Gothic cultures).

I've checked it several times though I may have missed some mistakes or connections that should exist, after all, it is over 1100 characters. Most of the characters that already exist in the game but I changed due to adding parents etc. I've also inclueded at the bottom.

You need to add dynasties and/or houses for those that don't already exist in the game, I've left them blank as this is not intended to be a seperate mod by itself but more of a resource that people can add to their mods in whole or in part.

I'll also post another such thing sometime later (days or perhaps a couple of weeks, depending on when I have time) , a "tribal" pack so to speak, for several tribes(mostly Slavic) that existed in the Balkans(Mostly Byzantine Empire and Bulgaria) and Pannonia although it would mostly be fictional members since very few individuals are known by name.

This one I've posted is not exactly finished either, though not in the sense that families are incomplete, with a few exceptions like the gens Anicia(because more and more turn up as I keep on researching) and Kavkhan family (members after 867 start I forgot to add), all the families you see here are complete, or at least as far as I can tell judging by the source materials I use. What I mean is there are still many more families I want to add, families of some more emperors that I haven't done yet, families of strategoi, other families that I've found but don't even exist in the game.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/mod-byzantine-genealogies-expanded.1593549/page-8

Originally posted by Abaçı:

@Mars Just to let you know, I've posted it all. 1100 or so characters, although I've added somefictional ones to fill the gaps between some known historical characters and a few fictional descendants in a number of places, over 1000 of them are historical people. Missing family members for the Bulgarian royal families of Dulos, Krums, and Kometopulis(all thought to be actually the same family) Two bulgarian families that doesn't exist in the game, missing members of several Byzantine Emperors, missing members of several families that at were part of the empire at one point or another, including the Ostrogothic royal family of the Amals, several families that didn't exist in the game at all.

Even listing them all would be very long but for ease of use I've grouped them Under Bulgaria and Byzantine Empire, within Bulgaria it is grouped by the family name and those within Byzantine empire are further grouped into Families of emperors which are then grouped according to dynasty or emperor and for the none imperial families, according to the ethnic origins with Romans and Greeks grouped together, Bulgars and Slavs grouped together,, Armenians and Georgians grouped together, Persians and Arabs grouped together and all Germanics (though I've given german culture to most considering the lack of Gothic cultures).

I've checked it several times though I may have missed some mistakes or connections that should exist, after all, it is over 1100 characters. Most of the characters that already exist in the game but I changed due to adding parents etc. I've also inclueded at the bottom.

You need to add dynasties and/or houses for those that don't already exist in the game, I've left them blank as this is not intended to be a seperate mod by itself but more of a resource that people can add to their mods in whole or in part.

I'll also post another such thing sometime later (days or perhaps a couple of weeks, depending on when I have time) , a "tribal" pack so to speak, for several tribes(mostly Slavic) that existed in the Balkans(Mostly Byzantine Empire and Bulgaria) and Pannonia although it would mostly be fictional members since very few individuals are known by name.

This one I've posted is not exactly finished either, though not in the sense that families are incomplete, with a few exceptions like the gens Anicia(because more and more turn up as I keep on researching) and Kavkhan family (members after 867 start I forgot to add), all the families you see here are complete, or at least as far as I can tell judging by the source materials I use. What I mean is there are still many more families I want to add, families of some more emperors that I haven't done yet, families of strategoi, other families that I've found but don't even exist in the game.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/mod-byzantine-genealogies-expanded.1593549/page-8

I'll take a look thanks! This should help out with noble families in v0.2

Originally posted by Mars:

I'll take a look thanks! This should help out with noble families in v0.2

Happy to be of help!

Another suggestion that come to mind, is it possible to somehow negate the negative effects of cultural acceptance but only for vassals? Although I'm not sure if they would still be called Feoderati at this time, people were still taken in and settled as Byzantine vassals at this period in time.There were Pechenegs(to Paristrion), Lombards(ItoMacedonia, not sure if theme or region) , possibly also Hungarians(to Vardar) being settled in the Balkans around 1066 for example and in Asia Minor Frankish/French and Normans were being land, although the latter, that is those in Asia Minor, to my knowledge is mostly warriors being paid in land, previous group was people being moved there to live there.


Edit: Oh and, I've opened another thread for it and I'm updating it whenever I have time. Not adding anything new atm but making corrections, just letting you know so you can use the most recent version of it when you are using it.


https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/abbc-additional-byzantine-bulgarian-characters.1607409/

A small suggestion on Varangians, after the Norman conquest of England, the guard was largely recruited from Anglo-Saxons. Is it possible to make them primarily Anglo-Saxons in 1066 start?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varangians

Originally posted by Abaçı:

A small suggestion on Varangians, after the Norman conquest of England, the guard was largely recruited from Anglo-Saxons. Is it possible to make them primarily Anglo-Saxons in 1066 start?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varangians

Currently trying to figure out how I'm going to work that out, you'll see what I'm trying to have planned whenever I get the mod updated for 1.11.0 with the WIP tabs.

This came to mind after seeing Kouropalates being added, do you consider adding some more positions, perhaps also several positions that can only be held by eunuchs?