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ENDLESS™ Space 2 >  Workshop > ninakorus workshop > ENFER Reloaded > Diskussioner
ENFER Reloaded
Beskrivning Diskussioner3 Kommentarer247 Ändringar
ninakoru  [utvecklare] 7 nov, 2023 @ 8:18
How do these changes impact the AI?
Well, actually in a huge way. AI has not contempt in strategic expenditure for ships. If they can afford it, they will slot it in.

Strategic modules most of the time provide an extra perk, and is not worth most of the time the extra cost of having multiple copies, this is specially true for weapons, hulls and shields, and some support modules. Of course are some exceptions, but is the lesser of two evils.

AI will cripple themselves pretty fast using strategics in their ships, they could go into "I cannot build another ship" mode pretty fast. Limiting the strategic modules will help them alleviate this quite a bit.

The best way to manage strategic expenditures would be to be aware of their current fleet as an strategic value, their current strategic stock, take into account their strategic production, the retrofit cost, etc, and project what is really affordable in a mid term basis, but I prefer to use the more simplistic approach is already there, and tweak it.

Another issue happens with those energy shields and hull plates. AI will choose that they think is best for their situation and slot all of the same type. While on some situations you can counter an all projectile or an all energy fleet with this tactic, just mixing both attack types will destroy AI fleets with ease. Still on un-even defense slots (1,3, 5...), AI will have more of their desired defense. Anyways, is a much better approach that will make AI fleets much more prepared to withstand the enemy.
Senast ändrad av ninakoru; 7 nov, 2023 @ 8:32
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Knofbath 9 nov, 2023 @ 1:58 
Cyrob had to teach the AI how to build per-POP buildings again after this last patch, so you'll probably need to tweak it again soon.

I do like the idea of limiting their strategic module usage though. Since I think that's part of why they cripple themselves late-game.
#1
ninakoru  [utvecklare] 9 nov, 2023 @ 9:08 
Well, If we get the patch soon, I would be more than delighted, at the end my changes are quite controlled, just matter of applying them again.
#2
Knofbath 11 nov, 2023 @ 11:37 
Played around with it for a minute, and the AI tendency is to put 2 modules of Armor on, before it puts a Shield on. This leads to situations where only 2 Defense slots get filled with the Armor, and they don't use Shields at all.

I'd probably default to Shield > Armor, then alternate past that. Shields are much stronger in Re-Awakening, and you can get eaten alive by Beams(95% Hull Penetration) without them. So a minimum of 1 module of each type offers the best mitigation. But you could probably let the AI choose past that point.

Oh, another thing I noticed. The AI is going very hard on Repair Modules(Nano-Repair Bots), probably because of the reduced Hull Weakness they give now. So limiting those to 1 module might be a good idea. (Could just hard code a module limit into the XMLs as well, so it might not be critical.)
Senast ändrad av Knofbath; 11 nov, 2023 @ 11:43
#3
ninakoru  [utvecklare] 11 nov, 2023 @ 17:32 
Hi, well, the thing is AI think what type of defense is best, in vanilla would have been armor x 3, all I did is to force to alternate armor - shield - armor instead. In other situation AI thinks is best shield x3 (vanilla), then will result in shield - armor - shield instead. If the AI has 2 or 4 slots for defense, then it will be always one/two armors and one/two shields. I hope it makes sense.

About the repair slots, this is because AI can only repeat strategics once, and usually that is what is left if the AI doesn't have many options for modules he wants for the role.

I know is far from perfect, but a simple improvement, I hope to refine it in later versions, now I am having a small break of AI modding, but I am interested in the different fleet missions the AI perform (fixed using Invaders and Behemoths properly ATM).
Senast ändrad av ninakoru; 11 nov, 2023 @ 17:36
#4
Knofbath 11 nov, 2023 @ 19:53 
I was only seeing the 2 Armor, but I think the AI did fix it after a couple of revisions. So it might only be the initial setup that is bugging out a bit.

I made an attempt to limit the Hull Repair via XML, didn't work. AI just ignores limits like that, so they are only a barrier for the player. I could probably kludge around the issue by removing the Hull Weakness on the lowest module. I just don't think post-battle repair is all that useful for them.

Haven't tried out anything with Supremacy yet. But I did see the AI move to invade, which is a lot more active than they usually are. So ::thumbsup:: there.
#5
ninakoru  [utvecklare] 13 nov, 2023 @ 18:01 
Hey, first of all thanks for all the feedback.

Remember the first sentence about per pop on buildings not working? Well I had to fix it in order to evaluate further build orders, happens that AI will ignore one third of the buildings and all the planetary improvements with the exception of the extra resource from deposits. Is a workaround because needs to be fixed on the core files, but I was told that was already in the way for the new patch, but until then... heh.
#6
Knofbath 13 nov, 2023 @ 19:05 
Ursprungligen skrivet av ninakoru:
Hey, first of all thanks for all the feedback.
No problem.

So, latest problem I've been seeing is that the AI is preferring ModuleSquadronBomber1 above all else, even when given access to ModuleSquadronBomber2.

I spent a bit of time trying to entice it to pick ModuleSquadronFighter1 instead on a Coordinator, by giving all sorts of buffs to it's DefensiveMilitaryPower, but was ultimately unsuccessful.

Leads to them all looking kinda samey.

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3082655329
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3082655651
#7
ninakoru  [utvecklare] 14 nov, 2023 @ 3:11 
I will look into that, plan to check out what is going on with specific races next (Volyani, Unfallen). Should always go with advanced bombers over basic ones if that's the thing.

Some things to keep in mind: AI will update their ships every 5 turns in normal speed, not immediately, also, goes full bombers until finds enemy threat with fighters then half of each favoring fighters on uneven slots.
#8
Knofbath 30 nov, 2023 @ 22:30 
So, how would one decrease the AI tendency to:
Win By Score > Use Juggernaut > waste tons of research unlocking Behemoth technologies

Note that the empire in question here is the Unfallen, who have 2 systems and 2 Behemoths. But have a Pirate Base right next door, that they really should be clearing.
#9
ninakoru  [utvecklare] 1 dec, 2023 @ 0:30 
Win by score in the AI is an anchor for many other things, don't worry about it. Yeah, AI has a problem with pirates, they will finish them off at some point... 30 turns later :( They just don't deal with them well. And every AI goes all-in with behemoth techs, is an issue specially later as they don't get ship upgrades due to it.
#10
Knofbath 1 dec, 2023 @ 1:49 
I'm testing the default AI Core in 1.5.58 right now, and I'm not seeing your changes to the Defense module loadouts showing up.
Senast ändrad av Knofbath; 1 dec, 2023 @ 1:49
#11
ninakoru  [utvecklare] 1 dec, 2023 @ 2:52 
Yeah, they F up that part precisely (and the weapons), check what is different on the bugs section of amplitude forums if you're curious.
#12
Knofbath 1 dec, 2023 @ 4:05 
I know I've already pointed out an issue with the new Retreat code, that Cyrob was able to fix pretty quickly. (The AI was swapping itself and player in the calculation, so would Retreat if it would do 100% damage to you, or if it outpowered you by 5x or 10x. So attack a full fleet with a defenseless Explorer, and the full fleet would Retreat.)

Getting all these AI fixes into one complete package is a challenge. I think it's getting closer though.
#13
ninakoru  [utvecklare] 1 dec, 2023 @ 4:38 
Well if you have contact with Cyrob let him know about the fixes on the amplitude forum. With two lines of code this mod would be fully functional. Yeah, is not an easy task and very hard to test it out, that's for sure... I happen to have lots of saves in precise moments to test out my own changes.
#14
Knofbath 2 dec, 2023 @ 0:00 
Cyrob has seen it.

Does 1.7 include the new Retreat code that isn't working correctly? Or have you noticed it and been able to fix it? (I think it's just someone got confused about the MyDamageTaken and which side it referenced.)
#15
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